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Just finished watching the '04 DVD version of Star Wars — Page 2

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Johnboy3434 said:

Mielr said:

The '04 DVDs sank the SEs to yet another depth by adding Hayden Christiansen to the finale of ROTJ, which to me, is one of the most inexcusable atrocities ever committed in the history of the moving image.

 

I know I'm going to regret asking, but here goes: why do you think it's such a crime? An unwanted change I can buy, but a crime? If it's because Shaw is dead, then I'm calling bullshit. In case you didn't notice, he's still in the unmasking scene. You know, the one appearance where he actually has to act. His entire performance is still in the movie, minus five seconds of standing and smiling. If anything, you should just count yourself lucky that Hayden didn't actually say anything. Seriously, of all the things to get riled up about, you choose this? What about Clive Revill? Not only was his entire performance cut out of the film, but he's still alive to see it. That's a much bigger insult than what happened to Shaw, and yet that's the one major change that most of the people around here seem to accept.

 

 

so you say it's WORSE because clive reville is still alive?

 Well get this:

If Clive Reville had a problem with being removed from ESB, we would have heard something from him. hell, he could have even sued george because actors DO have rights regarding their footage.

 

However, Shaw is DEAD, and he CAN'T object or sue, and george handled the replacement of his footage VERY disrespectfully and sloppily, whereas with Clive;s replacement, George actually took Ian McDarmid aside during episode III and had him actually FILM the new scene, whereas with hayden, george just took bad evil looking stock footage of Hayden's head and pasted it on Shaw's body. aside from that, in terms of the movie and the stroy, it completely destroyed the uplifting effect of the ending and ruined the point of the whole trilogy, which is anakin's redemption and him finding peace and reconciling with his family. Shaw's performance showed all of that. Hayden looked like he wanted to fuck his daughter.

 

I'm sorry, i think anybody who can't comprehend why we hate this and veiw it as a travesty must be blind.

 

I've had several expressions regarding this change over on the IMDB boards where they've become cliche, but not here:

 

the only worst things lucas could have done are:

 

Spraypainting "Stand in" on Shaw's Tombstone,

doing the same thing to his coffin and then throwing it into a junkyard,

Punching Drusella (Shaw's Daughter) in the face.

 

(I didn't mention anything about flipping off the fans or openly admitting that he hates us, because at least then he would finally be HONEST.)

 

 

 

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I absolutely agree with everyone on how stupid, disrespectful, insulting, offensive, degrading, and abominal the Hayden force spirit change is. It is the worst change done to a film in the history of the whole planet. As I have said before, just looking at it or even thinking about it is enough to miff me off big time! Blackjack is correct: Sebastian Shaw's Anikan force spirit represents his redeming and release from the dark side, whereas Hayden's does not represent anything of the sort, it is just an absolute crap change, plain and simple.

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On a side note, guess what I found at my local Borders today? At least 20 copies of the GOUT from nowhere. (they're not really out of print, are they?)

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i don't mind the fact that LUCAS changed the ghost of anakin,

in some ways it makes sense after watching the PT..........i guess

it's jarring to those (at times), if you're used to watching the

original.........i've only seen jedi once in the theaters when it

came out, and the SE once in theater also....and the original

about 4 times on laserdisc............so the impact isn't that much to me..

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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I think George Lucas has gone mad (He is insane) and has gone to the darkside.

The Madness of King George Lucas

 

1. The color corrections of the '04 DVDs may look good to someone who is .....

INSANE!!!!

2. all the strange changes in the '97 SE and the '04 DVDs seem like the work of a .....

MADMAN!!!!

3. The Jedi Rocks scene from the '97 SE and the '04 DVDs shows that George Lucas is really .....

CRAZY!!!!

4. the '97 SE, the '04 DVDs and The PT proofs that George Lucas has a mind fill with .....

MADNESS!!!!

5. The GOUT DVDs is a work of .....

EVIL!!!!

6. The past 11 years of Star Wars (1997-2008) and George Lucas attacks on the OOT has shown that George Lucas is a .....

INSANE MONSTER!!!!

 

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Hunter6 said:

I think George Lucas has gone mad (He is insane) and has gone to the darkside.

The Madness of King George Lucas

 

1. The color corrections of the '04 DVDs may look good to someone who is .....

INSANE!!!!

2. all the strange changes in the '97 SE and the '04 DVDs seem like the work of a .....

MADMAN!!!!

3. The Jedi Rocks scene from the '97 SE and the '04 DVDs shows that George Lucas is really .....

CRAZY!!!!

4. the '97 SE, the '04 DVDs and The PT proofs that George Lucas has a mind fill with .....

MADNESS!!!!

5. The GOUT DVDs is a work of .....

EVIL!!!!

6. The past 11 years of Star Wars (1997-2008) and George Lucas attacks on the OOT has shown that George Lucas is a .....

INSANE MONSTER!!!!

 

ROFLMAO!, Hunter, I want to thank you for making my day. I'm sick of being polite to GL. I'm going to make a thread were we can vent our anger. But don't go in there without a flame suit on, things could get a bit out of control.

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 (Edited)
negative1 said:

i don't mind the fact that LUCAS changed the ghost of anakin,

in some ways it makes sense after watching the PT..........i guess

it's jarring to those (at times), if you're used to watching the

original.........i've only seen jedi once in the theaters when it

came out, and the SE once in theater also....and the original

about 4 times on laserdisc............so the impact isn't that much to me..

 

later

-1

Negative1, I think it is time for you to go to a different forum. Go to the official site forums, they would love to hear comments from people like you. First of all, instead of constantly telling us you've only seen the movies a few times, just go watch the damn things so you don't have to keep reminding us. You said you liked the CGI look of the PT and liked ROTS better than ROTJ, and now you said you don't mind that Lucas changed the ghost of Anakin to Hayden Craptensen. Get out!!!!!

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negative1 said:

i don't mind the fact that LUCAS changed the ghost of anakin,

in some ways it makes sense after watching the PT..........i guess

 

It does make sense, in a way, but it makes a completely different kind of sense than the original ghost did. Y'see, the most interesting conflict in ROTJ is not between the Rebels and the Empire, or the Jedi, and the Sith, but between Luke Skywalker and Ben Kenobi, and it revolves around the essential person of "Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker."

Ben--no doubt well-versed in Jedi philosophy--believes that Anakin Skywalker died years ago, and the machine-creature Darth Vader is really a different person. Luke disagrees, or at least focuses elsewhere, averring that Anakin Skywalker did not die, and that he and Darth Vader are one and the same person. This difference comes to a head in their diametrically opposed solutions to the Vader problem--Ben's solution is to simply kill him, Luke's is to talk to him as a father.

In the original ROTJ, Luke was unambiguously correct. Vader admitted it with his dying breath, and then rejoined his former mentors, who were forced to accept the correctness of Luke's position. For the ghost of Anakin Skywalker was not the ghost of a young man who died long ago, but an old man, who had seen too many horrors, was prematurely aged, carried an immeasurable weight in his heart, but looked with unbridled joy and amazement and his son and redeemer. ROTJ is the tale of a young man's rebellion against conventional authority, conventional religion, conventional philosophy, and how it saved the worst of the previous generation.

Now, in the new ROTJ, Luke is apparently not correct at all. Neither is Vader! For the ghost of Anakin Skywalker is the ghost of a young man who died long ago, not the same man who killed Palpatine and then whispered, "Tell your sister you were right." The new ROTJ is the tale of a young man's rebellion against conventional authority, etc., and he is simply wrong! Ben and Yoda always had the deeper understanding of the soul that animated Darth Vader, they simply didn't anticipate the machine would emulate dead Anakin Skywalker's compassion at the crucial moment.

Why the change? The most obvious possible reason is that Lucas simply wanted to create another superficial connection between the OT and the PT. There is another less obvious solution: Many people thought that Vader's death-bed conversion to the Light Side let him get off the hook too easily, that he must answer for his atrocities. It is a very Protestant concept, that Vader could see the light at the end and be elevated to heaven with the saints, and one that may not fit very well in the Eastern-themed cosmology of Star Wars. By replacing the aged Anakin with the young Anakin, we may see that the elder, murderous Vader did indeed die on the Death Star and only the younger, purer version of him was granted immortality (or something like it). Perhaps the Force rejected those portions of his life that were evil and only admitted the portions of his life that were good into the afterlife. A fanfic called "Dark Emperor" anticipated this concept years before the PT: Palpatine, having died his final death, was sent to the netherworld of the Force, where all his adult experiences were excised by the Jedi he had killed and he reverted to an innocent child. Both are fairly benevolent descriptions of the afterlife: In the former, you can always change yourself and get in; in the latter, everyone gets in but it changes you.

"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Janskeet said:

negative1 said:

i don't mind the fact that LUCAS changed the ghost of anakin,

in some ways it makes sense after watching the PT..........i guess

it's jarring to those (at times), if you're used to watching the

original.........i've only seen jedi once in the theaters when it

came out, and the SE once in theater also....and the original

about 4 times on laserdisc............so the impact isn't that much to me..

 

later

-1

Negative1, I think it is time for you to go to a different forum. Go to the official site forums, they would love to hear comments from people like you. First of all, instead of constantly telling us you've only seen the movies a few times, just go watch the damn things so you don't have to keep reminding us. You said you liked the CGI look of the PT and liked ROTS better than ROTJ, and now you said you don't mind that Lucas changed the ghost of Anakin to Hayden Craptensen. Get out!!!!!

 

yeah, but then i would be missing all the exciting, intellectual and stimulating conversation that goes one here? (did i mention friendly?)

and i wouldn't want to miss out on that would i?

 

seriously though, what director doesn't edit their movies? practically every movie i own has a directors cut, or unedited version, i rarely have

the theatrical, or editted for tv version...............i can't think of a single movie that isn't altered by the time it comes to video...yes, some say

'theatrical cut'............but thats exactly what it is, a version that was 'cut' for the theaters, due to editting/time constraints/budgets/etc............

 

why can't a director have the freedom to release what they want? do you know more than the director? are you a movie producer? why should

i trust 'YOUR' opinion more than the director of the film? ..........................................the 'theatrical' versions of star wars exist in many forms,

so why can't you ignore the 'directors cut', or 'SE' versions?

 

apparently, that's too much to ask for..

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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Scruffy, that's one of the most thoughtful and interesting things I've ever read on the whole Anakin Force ghost issue. Thanks!

Negative1, George Lucas has every right to re-edit his films and release them to his heart's content. A part of me enjoys seeing what he can come up with. But taking the original versions of the films - that were loved by the entire world for 14-20 years - and letting them whither on the vine until they no longer exist? He does not have that right.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?