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Robert Harris Godfather Restoration WHY cannot lucas restore the oot ? — Page 3

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lordjedi said:

If the latest Blade Runner release didn't help Lucas "get the picture" what makes you think a Godfather restoration will?


Because Coppola and Lucas worked together on several projects back in the day, which is a lot more than can be said for Lucas and Scott.

To elaborate on what I was saying:

McCallum made that comment about "100 hours of documentaries for the next release." If they're going through all that trouble, what makes you think they would throw ALL of that in as a bonus to the movies themselves and NOT include the OOT? We've discussed - at length - Lucas' lack of sense when it comes to these movies, but that wouldn't even make any BUSINESS sense. Most people don't even bother to watch any of the extras on their dvd's, especially if they buy a lot of them. Granted, with blu-ray, it'll only take one extra disc per movie to fit all 100 hours of said documentaries into the set in standard def. Maybe this isn't of any consequence, especially since we don't know if McCallum meant "new documentaries" or "recycled but hard to find old documentaries."

I also wonder if they wouldn't go blu-ray only for the next release.

With Blade Runner, I picked up the 5-disc blu-ray even though I don't even have a bd player (or even an hdtv!). This was after I heard two things: 1) WB was going to phase out hd dvd, and 2) discs 2 and 4 on the hi-def releases were on regular ol' standard dvd's (those are the documentary discs, and having seen almost all the versions of the movie itself - except for the workprint and the international cut - the new documentaries were the only things I was really dying to watch).

Also, I didn't want to pay like 30 extra dollars (for the briefcase) just to get the fifth disc on dvd, especially when I already have the old ws/fs flipper and the dual-layered remaster from 2006. That, more than anything, told me that the studios are giving incentive for people to go hi-def.

Blade Runner is just one movie, which is why WB went through the trouble of putting out, all at once (inhale):

2-disc dvd
4-disc dvd
5-disc briefcase dvd
5-disc hi-def (either hd dvd or blu-ray) without the briefcase
5-disc hi-def with the briefcase.

You think Lucas would go through all that trouble for all six Star Wars films?

I'd think he'd want to keep it simple, maybe make this blu-ray only just as the 2004 set was dvd only. I mean, who doesn't own the movies on standard dvd by now?! I don't think LFL is going to sell any more of those.

As for throwing in the OOT, well, you can read my reasoning again if you want. To reiterate, I don't think it makes a lick of sense to throw in a whole bunch of documentaries no one will watch WITHOUT ALSO throwing in the OOT.

Look, we all know the man is crazy, but I think his desire to not be hated that much combined with his desire to be a good businessman will eventually dictate that he release the OOT on hi-def. His pride and his ego aren't that big.
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the Lynn Hale resonse e-mail quoted verbatim

" I wanted you to know how much we appreciate the passion and enthusiasm you have for Star Wars, and thank you for sharing your concerns about our upcoming DVD release.

The DVDs being released in September will contain two versions of Star Wars: Episodes IV, V and VI – the Special Editions (which represent George’s vision of the movies) and the first versions, which will be included as bonus material. We hoped that releasing those “original” movies on a bonus disc would be a way to have some additional fun with the debut of the movies as individual DVDs. We certainly did not want it to become a source of concern or frustration for any of our fans.

As you may know, an enormous amount of effort was put into digitally restoring the negatives for the Special Editions. In one scene alone, nearly 1 million pieces of dirt had to be removed, and the Special Editions were created through a frame-by-frame digital restoration. The negatives of the movies were permanently altered for the creation of the Special Editions, and existing prints of the first versions are in poor condition.

So many fans have requested the original movies, we wanted to find a way to bring them to you. But since these movies do not represent George's artistic vision, we could not put the extraordinary time and resources into this project as we did with the Special Editions. The 1993 Laserdisc masters represented the best source for providing the original versions as DVD bonus material. Although these are non-anamorphic versions, they do preserve the original widescreen composition of the movies.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans – now or in the future – to restore the earlier versions.

We hope you will understand our decision and, again, want to let you know how much we appreciate your interest and enthusiasm."

Sincerely,
Lynne Hale
publicity@lucasfilm.com




to things i want to draw attention to 1. " The negatives of the movies were permanently altered for the creation of the Special Editions"

2."We want you to be aware that we have no plans – now or in the future – to restore the earlier versions."

So put that in your pipe and smoke it Johnboy the next time you so much have the temerity to call me a liar, a Lucasfilm spokeperson quoted verbatim on George's hatred of the originals and destruction of the 0-neg.

I wish i could find the old comment by Lucas on coloring the classic 3 stooges as it clearly paints him as a hypocrite and anything but a film preservationist in light of 2006 and the crap release that is the gout.

Point number 3 "these movies do not represent George's artistic vision" bullshit on that As if Greedo shooting first was a part of george's original vision it would be in the shooting script.

I will let up on George when he releases the oot in better quality and when i don't have to rely on laserdisc for the original cuts of American Graffiti and THX 1138 without added cgi.

I am also holding on to my Indiana Jones trilogy first issued dvd boxset as i now know the eventual blu ray will have the fake cgi added to the tv broadcasts as Indiana IV is on the big screen.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Fang Zei said:

lordjedi said:

If the latest Blade Runner release didn't help Lucas "get the picture" what makes you think a Godfather restoration will?


Because Coppola and Lucas worked together on several projects back in the day, which is a lot more than can be said for Lucas and Scott.


And so did Spielberg and Lucas. With CEOTTK on Blu-Ray, it's pretty gawd damned obvious that Lucas doesn't give two shits what his previous partners are doing now. You can even read the interview with Lucas and Spielberg where Lucas constantly paints the negative reviews of the PT as "high hopes" instead of "piss poor story telling" and tells Spielberg to expect the same, to which Spielberg says "Speak for yourself George".

Fang Zei said:

To elaborate on what I was saying:

McCallum made that comment about "100 hours of documentaries for the next release." If they're going through all that trouble, what makes you think they would throw ALL of that in as a bonus to the movies themselves and NOT include the OOT? We've discussed - at length - Lucas' lack of sense when it comes to these movies, but that wouldn't even make any BUSINESS sense. Most people don't even bother to watch any of the extras on their dvd's, especially if they buy a lot of them. Granted, with blu-ray, it'll only take one extra disc per movie to fit all 100 hours of said documentaries into the set in standard def. Maybe this isn't of any consequence, especially since we don't know if McCallum meant "new documentaries" or "recycled but hard to find old documentaries."


Because, once again, Lucas doesn't give two shits about the OOT anymore.

Fang Zei said:

With Blade Runner, I picked up the 5-disc blu-ray even though I don't even have a bd player (or even an hdtv!). This was after I heard two things: 1) WB was going to phase out hd dvd, and 2) discs 2 and 4 on the hi-def releases were on regular ol' standard dvd's (those are the documentary discs, and having seen almost all the versions of the movie itself - except for the workprint and the international cut - the new documentaries were the only things I was really dying to watch).


I picked up the 5 disc set on regular DVD. I was never worried about HD or Blu-ray because I wasn't going to get involved in that war. If prices on BD players drop to under $200 this Christmas, I'll pick one up and get the BD set of Blade Runner. But this is largely irrelevant to the discussion.

Fang Zei said:

Blade Runner is just one movie, which is why WB went through the trouble of putting out, all at once (inhale):

2-disc dvd
4-disc dvd
5-disc briefcase dvd
5-disc hi-def (either hd dvd or blu-ray) without the briefcase
5-disc hi-def with the briefcase.


Um, no. WB went through all that trouble because it's what the fans have been begging for for YEARS. Some people only wanted the Final Cut (which is essentially a remastered and fixed up Directors Cut akin to the SEs, but with no story elements changed), which is the first set. Others wanted all versions except the WP, which is the 4 disc set. Finally, some seriously hardcore fans (raises hands) wanted all versions, including the WP, which is any of the 5 disc sets.

Once all the discs were made, the versions with and without briefcase probably didn't have a significant cost difference to produce.

Fang Zei said:

You think Lucas would go through all that trouble for all six Star Wars films?


If it's what the fans have been begging for, yes. But Lucas doesn't listen to his fans anymore, which is why I don't think we'll EVER see the OOT on anything besides those bonus discs.

Fang Zei said:

I'd think he'd want to keep it simple, maybe make this blu-ray only just as the 2004 set was dvd only. I mean, who doesn't own the movies on standard dvd by now?! I don't think LFL is going to sell any more of those.


A lot of people might own them on standard DVD, but not everybody (again, raises hands). Until those players come down more in price, a lot of people simply won't be able to play a hi-def only release. I know plenty of people that have big HDTVs but they still only have regular DVD players. In fact, that's still a huge chunk of the market.

And no one owns a fully remastered, anamorphic release of the OOT on DVD. No one at all.

Fang Zei said:

As for throwing in the OOT, well, you can read my reasoning again if you want. To reiterate, I don't think it makes a lick of sense to throw in a whole bunch of documentaries no one will watch WITHOUT ALSO throwing in the OOT.


Except that, again, we're talking about Lucas. This is the same man that released "state of the art in 1993" in 2006. So what makes sense to do for us isn't what he's likely going to do. I could be completely wrong, but based on this idiots history, I'd expect a standard DVD release with all those documentaries and no OOT. After all, everybody already has it from the '06 set, right?

Fang Zei said:

Look, we all know the man is crazy, but I think his desire to not be hated that much combined with his desire to be a good businessman will eventually dictate that he release the OOT on hi-def. His pride and his ego aren't that big.


HAHAHAHAHAHA! You apparently haven't been keeping up with his comments on Indy IV. He doesn't give a shit if he's hated. In fact, he thinks he's hated due to "high expectation" and not "begin a piss poor story teller". His pride and his ego are in fact HUGE. He doesn't even need to be a "good businessman" anymore. He's got plenty of money. He still thinks the name "Star Wars" has credibility, even though it took him a while to find someone to pick up the Clone Wars series (remember how no one wanted it?). He blames Hollywood losses on piracy instead of the crap movies that have been coming out. This man really has no clue about anything anymore. Whatever he believes is true, is true. Perception is definitely reality for Lucas and it's that simple.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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LordJedi,
I own both the DVD Briefcase set (got it for XMAS) and the HDDVD 5-Disc for BLADE RUNNER. The film has never looked so good. Including the 2.20:1 Workprint.
Keeping the DVD set cause the digipak is very nice. But using the HDDVD to watch.
How come Ridley Scott almost always releases kick ass DVD's? Oh, right... That's cause Mr. Kick-Ass DVD Producer is buddies with him. The great Charlie de Lauzirika.
Funny thing though. I own both the Theatrical and Director's Cuts of Kingdom of Heaven. Thing is, I haven't watched either version yet... So Theatrical first and then DC next.

Anyone else wished Willow had more supplements for the DVD? Oh well.
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It's all too obvious why George Lucas doesn't want to restore the OOT. He created the OOT, in spite of his nonexistent and derivative talent, to create something that became part of the national consciousness- and then deliberately raze it all to the ground in making money off the only thing he chose to make for the rest of his pathetic directorial career. The treatment of the OOT proves that Lucas is a sadistic monster who wanted to throw millions into a mindless delusion that he is a great director and place the people who cared about the OOT into a state of absolute despair that can only lead to the absolute loss faith in anything, material or spiritual. And now it is inevitable that he has ruined another franchise with KOTCS, as we watched this franchise crash and burn into dust. I'd rather exist in a universe where Lucas and SW never, ever existed than live in this world.
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It's all too obvious why George Lucas doesn't want to restore the OOT. He created the OOT, in spite of his nonexistent and derivative talent, to create something that became part of the national consciousness- and then deliberately raze it all to the ground in making money off the only thing he chose to make for the rest of his pathetic directorial career. The treatment of the OOT proves that Lucas is a sadistic monster who wanted to throw millions into a mindless delusion that he is a great director and place the people who cared about the OOT into a state of absolute despair that can only lead to the absolute loss faith in anything, material or spiritual. And now it is inevitable that he has ruined another franchise with KOTCS, as we watched this franchise crash and burn into dust. I'd rather exist in a universe where Lucas and SW never, ever existed than live in this world.
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Frevious, I think you're totally obsessed. Sure, I'd love to see the OT too - but better a world with the special edition than no Star Wars at all. If you have, as I understand your post to say, lost faith in everything just because of one movie director, well... good luck in life.

Definitely the OOT deserves a competent release, that's why many of us are here - but, seriously. Cut the drama. If it comes, it comes; if it doesn't, it doesn't. You'll always have your memories.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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generalfrevious said:

It's all too obvious why George Lucas doesn't want to restore the OOT. He created the OOT, in spite of his nonexistent and derivative talent, to create something that became part of the national consciousness- and then deliberately raze it all to the ground in making money off the only thing he chose to make for the rest of his pathetic directorial career. The treatment of the OOT proves that Lucas is a sadistic monster who wanted to throw millions into a mindless delusion that he is a great director and place the people who cared about the OOT into a state of absolute despair that can only lead to the absolute loss faith in anything, material or spiritual. And now it is inevitable that he has ruined another franchise with KOTCS, as we watched this franchise crash and burn into dust. I'd rather exist in a universe where Lucas and SW never, ever existed than live in this world.


For everyone with a short attention span, allow me to translate: "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!" God in Heaven, grow up! So you won't get to see a crystal clear transfer of your favorite version of a particular set of movies. Meanwhile, families in Somalia wonder if they'll eat tomorrow. Cry me a fucking river.
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Johnboy3434 said:

generalfrevious said:

It's all too obvious why George Lucas doesn't want to restore the OOT. He created the OOT, in spite of his nonexistent and derivative talent, to create something that became part of the national consciousness- and then deliberately raze it all to the ground in making money off the only thing he chose to make for the rest of his pathetic directorial career. The treatment of the OOT proves that Lucas is a sadistic monster who wanted to throw millions into a mindless delusion that he is a great director and place the people who cared about the OOT into a state of absolute despair that can only lead to the absolute loss faith in anything, material or spiritual. And now it is inevitable that he has ruined another franchise with KOTCS, as we watched this franchise crash and burn into dust. I'd rather exist in a universe where Lucas and SW never, ever existed than live in this world.


For everyone with a short attention span, allow me to translate: "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!" God in Heaven, grow up! So you won't get to see a crystal clear transfer of your favorite version of a particular set of movies. Meanwhile, families in Somalia wonder if they'll eat tomorrow. Cry me a fucking river.


I gotta agree with Johnboy on this one. My God man, the OOT isn't THAT important.

generalfrevious said:

The OOT doesn't deserve to be confined to only our memory and die a slow death.


So 1) get a fan preservation and 2) is it really worth losing faith in everything? Again, my God, it's a movie. I'm as big a fan as they come and it isn't even worth that much to me. There are so many other things in this world that are far more important.

Get yourself a fan preservation (or even 100 of them, it seems like there's about that many) and store it and watch it for the rest of your life. Show it to your kids. Let them see how great it is. As long as people continue to see it, the memory will live on.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Alright, maybe I have exaggerated too much...
still, Lucas is being a prick about the OOT, and it's unfair that we need to resort to bootlegs.
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DarkGryphon2048 said:

LordJedi,
I own both the Theatrical and Director's Cuts of Kingdom of Heaven. Thing is, I haven't watched either version yet... So Theatrical first and then DC next.


NO! Throw the theatrical cut away or sell it or whatever. Just don't watch it. The Director's Cut is Scott's third-best film after BLADE RUNNER and ALIEN. The theatrical cut is worse than HANNIBAL.
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generalfrevious said:

Alright, maybe I have exaggerated too much...
still, Lucas is being a prick about the OOT, and it's unfair that we need to resort to bootlegs.


Maybe so, but life isn't fair. We don't always get what we want. If we did, I'd have a mansion with 5 cars and I wouldn't have to work for a living.

ChainsawAsh said:

DarkGryphon2048 said:

LordJedi,
I own both the Theatrical and Director's Cuts of Kingdom of Heaven. Thing is, I haven't watched either version yet... So Theatrical first and then DC next.


NO! Throw the theatrical cut away or sell it or whatever. Just don't watch it. The Director's Cut is Scott's third-best film after BLADE RUNNER and ALIEN. The theatrical cut is worse than HANNIBAL.


Some would say you should just throw the whole movie away :P
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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People who say that haven't seen the DC.

The theatrical cut of Kingdom of Heaven isn't even worth watching, IMO. The Directors Cut is the greatest historical epic since Lawrence of Arabia, on the other hand. Its hard to believe they are the same film. Though I guess a 2-hour LOA might be pretty bad too.
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The only thing that's actually been frustrating me is that - while we are here to combine our efforts on preservations and fan edits IN LIEU OF a proper oot release - we've all very rapidly adopted the attitude that Lucas could never possibly be brought around to sharing the sentiment.

To be fair (and to keep things on topic), it's totally understandable why we've pretty much given up any hope of that ever happening. I mean, back in May of '06 when digitalbits broke the news of the laserdisc bidniss, RAH himself basically threw up his arms and said "I give up. I'm willing to do this restoration job free of charge and you don't even want that. What the hell, man."

At this point it's not a question of "could he," but "would he."

Hey, The Graduate didn't get an anamorphic dvd release in the U.S. until just last year unless I'm mistaken.

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Chainsaw Ash and zombie84,

Eh, I'll just keep the Theatrical Cut of Kingdom of Heaven for the extra content and just watch the Director's Cut. Hell, I'm even wanting to buy the Korean Region 3 NTSC of 1492: The Conquest of Paradise just so I can have it in my DVD collection compared to waiting for Dharlie de Lauzirika's treatment for it. I'd consider the Korean DVD, which is 155m, to be an interim copy. The Duellists was brilliant and I favour the Director's Cut of LEGEND highly. Even I own the 20th Anniversary and Collector's Edition 2-Disc of ALIEN to have a "3-Disc" set. Funny thing for GLADIATOR though... I own the Signature Selection 2-Disc AND the Extended Edition 3-Disc, the latter of which I haven't even gotten around to that set at all besides looking at the packaging. BLACK HAWK DOWN I own both the 3-Disc Deluxe Edition and the Blu-ray. So I am a huge fan of Ridley Scott. Someone to Watch Over Me was alright and had great believable acting.

Rule is also applicable for alot of other movies too. Just to have the most complete version of though. The following link is to the "Owned" section of my DVD collection. For my wishlist it's advisable to click the letters for easier browsing. I'm also region free and import quite often. (I have 7 titles on order though. As a side note, I own ALIEN³ more for the Special Assembly Cut which has drastically increased my appreciation for the film.)

 

http://www.dvdspot.com/list.php?member=DarkGryphon2038&list=owned

 

Lawrence of Arabia is a film I'd love to see in full 1080p with a proper transfer. Same with alot of films. Could post a list but of course it'd be lengthy.

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Speaking of Lawrence of Arabia, there's going to be a showing in all its 70mm glory at the Music Box Theatre in Chicago on July 20th.

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Nice. Its coming to Blu Ray soon I believe. I saw some 1080p footage from it (not the Blu Ray release itself, just footage from the movie) and it was so freaking awesome. I've never seen it in theaters and its one of those things I would just love to experience.

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I'd love to see Lawrence of Arabia and other 65-70mm films in theaters. Even Kenneth Branagh's HAMLET which I'm blind buying from Columbia House.

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The Music Box is having a whole week of 70mm showings (TRON, Lawrence, Vertigo, and something else - alas, I can't make any of them but Lawrence, which is good since I've never seen it, but damn would I love to see Vertigo in 70mm ... ).  Which is funny 'cause I'd seen the Blade Runner Final Cut and Nosferatu there and had no idea they had a 70mm projector.