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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 34

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adywan said:



but these are the lines that sound really bad so returning it to its original dialogue is what i want to do even if i have to substitute "Luke Skywalker" for "young Skywalker". It still sounds 100% better than the new lines


So your planning to return it to exactly how it was or as close as possible if you cant find "Luke" being said by Ian?

"The Empire can't stop us now..now its our turn" -Luke-

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DarthSmokey said:


If you want to try again, get me a 720p or 1080i original green screen shot on HDV (or that Panasonic thingy) and I can match the grain and junk for you and send you nice, ready to use Alpha channeled mov, Ady. Dont even need to move the cam if you frame it fully.

It wasn't just the issue of matching the footage. the main obstacle was using a motion control camera rig then any model footage filmed looked like it belonged in something like thunderbirds so any thought of creating new models shots has been dropped. Thanks for the offer though
bkev said:

Hey, Ady, this might have been addressed, but will you be using HD footage for this edit?

Yes i am using the German broadcast footage for the movie but i have had to scale it down to 1024x576 because its just impossible to do all the work that i am doing using full HD sized footage. The computer just grinds to a hault. But the image, even scaled down. looks hell of a lot sharper than if i used the DVD as a source.
GhostAlpha26 said:


So your planning to return it to exactly how it was or as close as possible if you cant find "Luke" being said by Ian?

Yes. The new dialogue is so out of place. It jumps out to you that it was written at different times. You don't need to explain who skywalker is. we already know he destroyed the Death Star. The whole "changing the dialogue to TIE in the PT" is another one of the changes George has made that was totally unnecessary.

Recently the threads have taken a bit of a turn and are becoming a more PT/SE vs OUT. My personal feelings is that they should all be able to co-exist> The PT can never be said to be the same quality film making that the OUT was (and its not an age thing because i know a lot of younger people that have grown up with all versions of the saga realising what a pile of crap the PT turned out to be compared to the OT (although Jedi was heading that way and was a taste of things to come)

There is only 1 person to blame for the bad dialogue, wooden acting, and bed editing and that isn't the actors or technicians... it it George. If he had handed over the reigns to a good director you would have seen better performances. If he hadn't surrounded himself with "yes" men then some of the failings of the PT probably wouldn't have existed. And if he had stayed out of the editing room, stuck to writing just the storyline and got someone better to write the screenplay & made sure that Ben Burtt stayed as the sound effects editor then we would have seen a totally different trilogy, and Star Wars would most likely have still been as great as it once was.

Jedi became the sign to us all that the George we all loved was gone. His divorce changed him. His ideas were gone and Jedi proved that. That movie was just ANH rehashed and is the weakest of the OT. Empire, however, was original and had some great acting performances. It is undoubtedly the best in the entire saga. This is why the new lines and their delivery stick out like a sore thumb.

I don't hate the PT by a long shot. it does have some great moments but the bad, at the moment, out way the good. I think the PT can be saved somewhat and i am going to attempt that when i get around to them (if only they would release a better TPM transfer with the new CG Yoda instead of that horrendous puppet). But my philosophy is to change the PT to better suit the OT and not the other way around (apart from visual FX clean-ups and changes to the OT of course)

on to another point that someone raised and that is Boba Fett in Jedi. I really like the idea of removing him completely. his character is useless in that movie and adds nothing so he really doesn't need to be in it and, to be honest, if he wasn't there you wouldn't miss him. I think he was only put in ROTJ because he became such a popular character since his appearance in ESB but George really didn't know what to do with him and therefore ruined such a great and mysterious character. .....

But all that really need to wait until i start my ROTJ:R thread as this one should really stick to being just for ideas and suggestions for ESB or everything becomes too hard to keep track of.

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Cant wait for that debate, Wink Wink!

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adywan said:

on to another point that someone raised and that is Boba Fett in Jedi. I really like the idea of removing him completely.

Excellent! It'll still be hard not seeing him die a pathetic death (at least GL "let" him not be dead in the EU), but oh well!

Ok, now back to ESB... ;)

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Who besides George directed and wrote ANH? I bet you don't call that acting wooden? Even though Fisher, Ford and Hamill state how George directed simply. "Faster, more intense"

George Lucas: The point is, like if you paint your house white and somebody comes over, 'Well that should be a green house.' Well, fine, but I wanted to paint it white. I don’t think there was anything wrong with painting it white. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with me for painting it white. Maybe it should be a green house, but I didn’t want it to be a green house. I wanted it to be a white house.

Lucas: "The challenge was that I wanted to tell the love story in a style that was extremely old-fashioned, and, frankly, I didn't know if I was going to be able to pull it off. In many ways, this was much more like a movie from the 1930s than any of the others had been, with a slightly over-the-top, poetic style - and they just don't do that in movies anymore. I was very happy with the way it turned out i the script and in the performances, but I knew people might not buy it. A lot of guys were going to see this movie, and most guys think that kind of flowery, poetic talk is stupid - 'Come on guys, give me a break.' More sophisticated, cynical types also don't buy that stuff."

"I know the critics are going to hate it. They already hate it. So there’s nothing we can do about that. They hate the idea that we’re making another one. They’ve already made up their minds. And all they’re going to do is go to the movie to say they saw it, but they could already write their review today. The fans are all upset. They’re always going to be upset. “Why did he do it like this? And why didn’t he do it like this?” They write their own movie, and then, if you don’t do their movie, they get upset about it. So you just have to stand by for the bricks and the custard pies, because they’re going to come flying your way. You know it’s gonna come. Will this be Titanic? Probably not. Will this do O.K.? I think, yes, it will. So there’s not much to worry about."


I didn't wanna help turn this more into a bash or defend Lucas thread. but I feel I must add some quotes of his to help balance it out, because some you hate him because he didn't do it "your way" which you consider the "right" or "good" way. And I always feel put down/insulted/slapped in the face when people tell me the movies I love are no good (Which is just their opinions). None of us would be here discussing Star Wars if it wasn't for him. I just feel we need balance between the defenders and the detractors.


One thing Palpatine had right (When referring to any art medium which he wasn't referring too) "Good is a point of view."
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Sevb32 said:

Who besides George directed and wrote ANH?


Gloria Katz and Willard Huyck apparently rewrote a good amount of the dialogue.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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But where is the documentations of that? Apparently Hales and Stoppard wrote dialogue for AOTC and ROTS yet people still complained.
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Sevb32 said:

Even though Fisher, Ford and Hamill state how George directed simply. "Faster, more intense"


"Faster, more intense," is what Ford, Fisher and Hamill said thats what Lucas continually said, I dont recall if they said that made it simple nor do I remember them stating simplifying it made it better directing. Not to mention I think theres more to directing then repeating the same 3 words over and over.

"The Empire can't stop us now..now its our turn" -Luke-

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Sevb32 said:

But where is the documentations of that? Apparently Hales and Stoppard wrote dialogue for AOTC and ROTS yet people still complained.


The Star Wars Annotated Screenplays for starters.

It is a great resource, you should pick it up.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Screenplays-Laurent-Bouzereau/dp/0345409817/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211836980&sr=8-1
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Sevb32 said:

Who besides George directed and wrote ANH? I bet you don't call that acting wooden? Even though Fisher, Ford and Hamill state how George directed simply. "Faster, more intense"

I guess you didn't actually read what i wrote and jumped to the conclusion that i was George & PT bashing.
adywan said:


Jedi became the sign to us all that the George we all loved was gone. His divorce changed him. His ideas were gone and Jedi proved that.

This is true and a fact. You can see how his style changed. Divorce does this to people. I know cuz i've been through it. After this he became surrounded by "yes" men. No one challenged him or his decisions. ANH, if it hadn't been for the editing which Lucas handed over to other people for the final version, could have been just like the PT. You only have to look at the original cut of the cantina. It was long and drawn out just like many scenes in the PT. Now to prove my case just watch the OT and notice how tight the editing is. It doesn't concentrate on shots any longer than it should, which is a mark of good editing. Now look at the PT and the editing again shows this long and drawn out style. Where a scene or shot should end it lingers and creates many pauses that really shouldn't be there.

I'm not a PT hater and i have stated this so many times. I'm not a GL hater either, after all he gave us this saga. But at times you need to take a step back and look at your favourite trilogies without the rose tinted glasses. ANH has its faults but great editing created a great movie. ESB has a great story and is the best of the saga. ROTJ very much the weakest of the OT and scores low for me.

Now we get to the PT.
TPM : had its good points but you never connected with the characters the way you did with the OT characters and relied to heavily on the visuals to get your attention and not the characters and story. The humour relied too much on childish slapstick which even my kids , who were very young at the time, didn't find funny and actually found irritating
AOTC: i loved this film when it came out. Much better than TPM but the whole love story just didn't work. there was no chemistry between the two actors. For this i don't just blame George but Hayden is a terrible actor. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that his wooden delivery was down to the director but NO. Having seen him in Awake and Jumper since, he's almost the same character and delivers his lines the same way he did in the PT. Although there was one scene that i felt was his best which was when his mother died. Very powerful scene. You could feel the rage and that was great. The whole love story being stylised on the 30s romantic films well what can i say apart from there was no similarity towards that genre whatsoever.
ROTS: a good film in general but it became rushed towards the end as he tried to resolve everything. The "turning to the dark side" story was dealt with badly also. he gave up everything & turned too quickly. he didn't even bat an eyelid when the emperor admitted that he had lied to him and that he didn't know the secret to save padme. Now if you had turned your back on everything for some guy who promised that he knew this secret to save the one you loved and then admitted he didn't, wouldn't you be pissed? i know i would and so would every other real person, which is why his characterisation failed.

Good is a point of view that changes as you mature. i wonder how many of the younger audience, as they grow older, will still think the PT is great. Not many i can tell you. it certainly will never have the lasting appeal that the OT has and that has been proven over recent years as the audience has matured.

Now please can we end this PT vs OT subject until i at least get around to the PT. This is the ESB thread and has nothing to do with the PT. ESB really has no PT connections where as ROTJ does, so that can be addressed in that thread when i start it.

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Ady, I appreciate how level-headed you are about all this. It seems so many people around here, myself included, can get so thickheaded about changing things back or ignoring the PT. I'm glad that the guy who did such an amazing edit of ANH also has so much respect for the other movies.

But enough about that, back to ESB.

I like the idea of trying to get "Luke" from Ian on that extra DVD. I also think that well placed static would do nicely to cover any edits. It'll be interesting to see how its done in the end.

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Points well taken for the most part. My point is this, some people think Lucas should have done test screening and polling and caved to whatever the audiences/fans wanted and change the story around what the fans wanted. I am glad we got pure George Lucas and not something he caved in to people for. Because not matter who directed or wrote Star Wars we'd still have people on internet forums and other places saying how it should have been done this or that other better way. I can only imagine what it would have been like if there had been an active internet when the original trilogy was first released.

You say the prequels will never have the lasting appeal that the OT but, I think that would be true no matter who wrote or directed the prequels, they came out in a different era than the originals, the originals were the first of their kind, and they had little competition when they first came out. Of course the prequels would not have the sense of "awe" the originals had. Partly because people never saw anything like that at the time of the OT, nowadays in this era they see stuff like it all the time. Honestly, if the OT were to come out for the first time evere in today's era would it have ever become the phenom it did?
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Are you done? Please let the answer be a "yes"

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Hayden is a little weak at times, but to me Mark Hamill is way, way worse of an actor.

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Yes, I am done as far as that goes, as long as everyone else is.
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Sevb32 said:

Points well taken for the most part. My point is this, some people think Lucas should have done test screening and polling and caved to whatever the audiences/fans wanted and change the story around what the fans wanted. I am glad we got pure George Lucas and not something he caved in to people for. Because not matter who directed or wrote Star Wars we'd still have people on internet forums and other places saying how it should have been done this or that other better way. I can only imagine what it would have been like if there had been an active internet when the original trilogy was first released.

You say the prequels will never have the lasting appeal that the OT but, I think that would be true no matter who wrote or directed the prequels, they came out in a different era than the originals, the originals were the first of their kind, and they had little competition when they first came out. Of course the prequels would not have the sense of "awe" the originals had. Partly because people never saw anything like that at the time of the OT, nowadays in this era they see stuff like it all the time. Honestly, if the OT were to come out for the first time evere in today's era would it have ever become the phenom it did?


Well i have to have the last word on this, not only because its my thread but because this puts me on my 1000th post.

You say you are glad that we got pure Lucas for the PT and in fact you have hit the nail on the head. It was PURE Lucas. The OT was never pure Lucas and certainly not the Lucas that emerged after years of living in his little bubble created after he finished the OT. There were a lot more people involved in the original films that had their creative input. Even ANH. He may have wrote & directed it but the film we all know and love was down to editing. I wish that the "lost cut" would emerge so we could see what Lucas' original vision would have been like. My guess it would have been very similar to the PT in its approach. Surrounding yourself by "yes" men is the worse thing any creative person could possibly do. You need input from people who may not agree with your decision to keep a balance. This is what was lacking when he started the PT and boy does it show.

Now that it. No more PT talk in this thread unless its directly related to this edit. I did ask for this last time but it continued. Well no more. If you want to talk about the PT vs OT then please start your own thread. I'm pretty sick about talking about it all the time when i should be concentrating on doing this edit.

So lets all get back to talking about that now please.

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adywan said:

I'm pretty sick about talking about it all the time when i should be concentrating on doing this edit.


Amen, brother! If given the time and venue, I could talk for hours about PT vs. OT and the merits/disadvantages of both (I did in fact love the PT the first few times around, but since ROTS ended, my opinions have sharply changed), but you're right, the ESBR thread is probably not the place. But back to business:

Empire is one of the few movies out there I consider to be a nearly 'perfect' movie. This, of course is a matter of opinion, but is what I believe. Pre-SE, everything about the film worked. The pacing, music, acting, direction, cinematography, all combined to make for one of the most enjoyable cinematic experiences I have ever had. And what sets the great movies apart from the good movies is the test of time. ESB is as enjoyable to me today as it was in 1980.

Step forward from 1980 to 1997 (and then to 2004) and some of the mystery of the movie was taken away with the extra Wampa footage, but these scenes certainly did not break the film. The new Vader/Emperor dialogue was poorly delivered and the new footage of Ian McDiarmid seemed 'off,' although it was a welcome addition to the movie for continuity's sake. The new Vader leaving Bespin sequence is not a bad sequence at all, but the problem is that it breaks up the flow of events. John Williams' great score gets hacked with the newly inserted scenes and breaks that part of the movie.

With my love of Ady's ANHR, I am obviously not a GOUT-only fan. I like to see new effects in addition to pristine color timing and properly leveled sound fields, but only if they're done the right way. I believe Ady is one of the few talented enough who 'get it' and can pull this off.

I would like to see ESBR presented just that way. Clean up the effects, bring back the true (or more realistic) color, devolve some of the 1997/2004 enhancements, and package it all with a great, enveloping sound field. I hope that FX work is not done just for the sake of doing it. I personally wouldn't mind a bigger Hoth battle, but I don't need to see the Walkers landing on the planet (and if they do, certainly not before their reveal to the rebels on the ground). You know my position of the Death Star being in ESBR (nay, I say!). I'm sure the new Vader/Emperor scene will be fantastic, especially if we can find a decent "Luke" for the big guy to say.

Re-inserting the original Boba Fett dialogue as well as the original "Bring my shuttle" and "You're lucky you don't taste very good" lines will be very welcome indeed.

What we're seeing currently is a movie produced in 1980 and it won't necessarily look like a film made today. That's the big challenge with FX work on an older film. One could go down two routes: have the FX scream out "Look at me!!!" as Lucasfilm did in 1997, or have everything blend seamlessly as Ady did in 2008 with ANHR (and to a degree with Paramount's work on the DVD release of Star Trek: The Motion Picture - they even managed to match the film grain with the new CGI).

It sounds like the major issue right now is getting the color right. Once that's done, I have full faith that Ady will craft some new visual effects that will blend in extremely well with the existing footage and enhance a great film to levels unseen.

Oh, and I'd really like to see an Ewok as one of the bounty hunters. That'd be sweet! :)

O.T. or No T., baby!™

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Savage, I absolutely agree with you. In fact sometimes I read this thread and shake my head in disbelief with the apparent lack of trust or faith in Adywan that you guys have.... DON"T WORRY. After watching Adywan's SWR there should be no doubt in anybody's mind that ESBR will be just as spectacular.....it's going to brilliant, you'll see.

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Ripplin said:

Emperor: We have a new enemy: *crackle* Skywalker.
Vader: Who?
Emperor: *crackle*...kywalker.
Vader: Come again?
Emperor: *crackle*ALKER! What's the matter with you?!


LOL... hilarious man.

“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers

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vbangle said:

...the apparent lack of trust or faith in Adywan that you guys have....


I don't think there's a lack of trust in the OT populace over the project, I think that different fans have different opinions on what they would or would not like done with the film and sometimes these opinions can result in...forceful...exchanges. I'm on the side that just wants everything cleaned up, with a few minor enhancements here and there. The there are those who would rather have a restoration of the film only. Finally, there are those out there who want to add in new scenes and give the film a new look.

It's all about taste and no matter what you do, you can't please everyone. If Ady wanted to go about his project on his own, he wouldn't post here and would release it when he was done. However, I believe he realizes that there are differing views out there and he posts here for suggestions/critiques. In the end, the final result will be all the better for it.

O.T. or No T., baby!™

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Savage said:

vbangle said:

...the apparent lack of trust or faith in Adywan that you guys have....


I don't think there's a lack of trust in the OT populace over the project, I think that different fans have different opinions on what they would or would not like done with the film and sometimes these opinions can result in...forceful...exchanges. I'm on the side that just wants everything cleaned up, with a few minor enhancements here and there. The there are those who would rather have a restoration of the film only. Finally, there are those out there who want to add in new scenes and give the film a new look.

It's all about taste and no matter what you do, you can't please everyone. If Ady wanted to go about his project on his own, he wouldn't post here and would release it when he was done. However, I believe he realizes that there are differing views out there and he posts here for suggestions/critiques. In the end, the final result will be all the better for it.


All true. Well said.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Savage said:


What we're seeing currently is a movie produced in 1980 and it won't necessarily look like a film made today. That's the big challenge with FX work on an older film. One could go down two routes: have the FX scream out "Look at me!!!" as Lucasfilm did in 1997, or have everything blend seamlessly as Ady did in 2008 with ANHR


maybe i don't feel as you did,

but all the new effects/scenes/and changes jumped out pretty heavily
to me in adywans cut of ANH (and i'm still pretty much in the purist camp)..

so, i'm not sure where you're coming from...maybe that's why people
are debating additions etc..

unless its a very subtle change, ANYTHING new will stand out
(even colors/scene changes/etc).....

if you're going to add stuff/change things...you might as well go all
out.......like adywan did..

or if you don't, there's always the vintage edits, and real 'preservation'
cuts to enjoy..

to each their own,...

later
-1

'may the force be with you'

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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Just wanted to throw my two cents in on Empire the only real changes I see needed are the removal of the garbage mattes and fixing the color issues from the 2004 DVDs. I guess the Taun Taun movements could be smoothed a little if possible but I have always considered it one of the better go motion effects so it never bothered me personally. I liked the addition of the windows to cloud city myself so I hope at least some of them stay but I can see correcting the continuity errors they raise. Adywan did a terrific job on ANH so I have complete faith in what he will do with Empire whether it be additions or subtractions.

On the Fett note in Jedi I hope you leave the scene of him being eaten by the Sarlac in I always liked the unintentional revenge that Han got. I mean the character lives on in the E.U. In the OT he is not really a character but a plot device anyway so in context of the films I see nothing wrong with taking him out like they did. I like Fett as much as the next person but admit it's because of the costume not that he actually really did anything LOL. I am sure I will be slammed for my blasphemy ;)

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gavin77 said:

Hayden is a little weak at times, but to me Mark Hamill is way, way worse of an actor.

Not to me. Hamill gave a fine, natural performance in SW- I don't think you can really say that about Hayden in either of his PT films. Mark's acting got a little self-conscious as the trilogy progressed, but he still gave believable, moving performances in ESB and ROTJ. The thing about Mark's performances in those 3 films that I always appreciated was that he bought what he was doing. I never doubted for a minute that he WAS Luke Skywalker, and he believed he was. I never got that sense of commitment from Hayden.

Sorry, I know we're not supposed to talk about the PT anymore in here. :-P

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Savage said:

The new Vader/Emperor dialogue was poorly delivered and the new footage of Ian McDiarmid seemed 'off,' although it was a welcome addition to the movie for continuity's sake.

"From [your] certain point of view." ;) I just rolled my eyes when I heard they stuck Mr. McDiarmid in there. For the sake of newer fans, it makes sense to do it, but most fans know that there are 'old' Star Wars movies that have certain things in them that are different. I just don't like that they'd be happy if everyone forgets that Clive Revill exists. Fortunately, there are places like ot.com that set things straight!
Oh, and I'd really like to see an Ewok as one of the bounty hunters. That'd be sweet! :)

HA! :D I say stick Chucka-Trok in there! He's the tough guy with the weapons, so give him a cool, shady past. Heh.

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