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Star Wars Prologue - Epic Prequel Edit (Released) — Page 3

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Hi, frendon...

Not to impugn that work, but I have not drawn any inspiration from Star Wars Revisited. The two projects are most assuredly coincidental. Instead, credit should go to the Dark Times (3-in-1) project. It was that thread that triggered many of my early ideas. These two projects have similar goals and are more creative edits, whereas Star Wars Revisited is a technical edit.

"Are you plannng on keeping the whole midichlorian thing?"
The great thing about midichlorians is that if you remove the few references to them, it CHANGES NOTHING. Thus, there will probably be no talk of midichlorians.

"What about the prophecy of the chosen one?"
My bias is that the less that is said about Anakin and his family, the better it is for the original trilogy. One of the goals of this project is to restore some of the secrecy, mystery and imagination that allowed the original films to work so well.

"Have you uploaded what you have so far to a.b.starwars or just torrent sites?"
The two files released thus far (an early screener of the first ~25 minutes, and the teaser trailer) should still be available on torrent sites.
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Oh my god! After seeing Andywan's Ep. IV I was wondering if someone would remove Jar Jar from the Phantom menace using his techniques. I'm glad someone is doing this.
I for one don't like the PT at all but this may be watchable.

This is a very good idea.

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I was wondering if someone would remove Jar Jar from the Phantom menace using his techniques.

I really don't know what methods were used in that project; but whenever you make frame-to-frame changes (deletions, insertions or corrections), the technique is rotoscoping (a generic term today). The removal of Jarjar in the Prologue has been achieved thus far by background-restoration (mostly) and painting (occasionally).

Before I forget, someone previously suggested that this edit could be used to derive a Jarjar-less version of TPM. That isn't completely true, and I don't want TPM project editors to be misled: I am NOT removing Jarjar from EP1. I am removing Jarjar from scenes that are used in the Prologue. Of course, someone could use footage from the Prologue, but anyone who wants to completely remove Jarjar from EP1 will need to address the remaining footage using extensive and tedious painting methods. That itself could take 3-5 months.

This isn't a concern for me, because in my Star Wars "universe," there will be only four installments: The Prologue, Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi.

"I for one don't like the PT at all but this may be watchable."
I certainly hope it will be watchable
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Interesting concept, to use some more imaginative editing - certainly Star Wars has never been too adventurous in this regard.

I've tried "Fall of the Republic" by Blankfist, He brutally chopped out the crap of Episode I - down to 22 minutes. That removes most of the silliness including Jar Jar.
What's left is decent film, but not very exciting because they just find Anakin and take him away without any struggle or action at all.
Ep2 is cut less heavily.
Ep3 is more or less intact.
The end result was still not very enjoyable to me, even though there was much less negative stuff. It still seems quite long and the cut from episode 1 to 2 feels unnatural.

Hope this works out better... its a big challenge to try and make one good movie just by editing.
Darth Lucas: I am altering the trilogy. Pray I don't alter it further.
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Anti-Matter,
I actually like your idea for a Prologue very much it may be the only version of the prequels I would be able to stomached at all considering what Lucas did.

I was wondering if you could make Qui-Gon Jin disappear after he is killed by Maul using rotoscoping technique. Maybe in Kenobi's arms ...

...but really I think Qui-gon should disappear. It would match OT and Qui-gon's ghost was supposed to teach Obiwan on tatowine how to do this, right?

This inconsistency has always been probably my biggest gripe against the PT.

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...but really I think Qui-gon should disappear. It would match OT and Qui-gon's ghost was supposed to teach Obiwan on tatowine how to do this, right?

Is Qui-gon allowed to 'ghost out' ?

Obi-wan ghosted-out at death.
Yoda ghosted-out at death.
Anakin did NOT ghost-out at death, but instead had a funeral pyre.
Qui-gon also had a funeral pyre.

If one were to do as you suggested, one is then compelled to remove the funeral pyre scene from EP1--so that is something to consider, too. If you like that moment in the movie, then you are kind of stuck with the original death sequence.

Of course, removing the funeral scene is a simple matter. But is the issue just as simple?

Are you sure that Qui-gon should (or needs to) ghost-out at the moment of death? I have to check again, but someone I spoke with seemed to "know" instantly that Qui-gon cannot ghost-out, based on a private conversation between Yoda and Obi-wan.

- EDIT
While we're on this interesting topic, how about adding Qui-gon's ghost to the ensemble finale in EP6? I'm not sure if he can be positioned into the frame, but it's something to think about.
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[Originally posted by: Anti-Matter
Is Qui-gon allowed to 'ghost out' ?

....While we're on this interesting topic, how about adding Qui-gon's ghost to the ensemble finale in EP6? I'm not sure if he can be positioned into the frame, but it's something to think about.


The conversation with OB1 & yoda at the end of ROTS was one of the most disappointing cop-outs I've ever seen in a film series. Yoda basically said Qui-gon was going to teach OB1 how to "become one with the force" if I remember correctly (I do not have ROTS in my collection). But how can that be if Qui-gon did not disappear himself?

Anyway, enough of my ranting, as far as I know Qui-gon should ghost-out. I don't believe there is any reason he shouldn't. In fact if he ghosts-out when he dies it would actually make that conversation between OB1 and Yoda kind of make more sense. If I were you i would go and look at that scene just to make sure but I'm pretty possitive there is nothing in the movies at all that states Qui-gon was NOT suposed to ghost-out, so we are left with that nagging "why not?"...
As for the Pyre scene I never liked it too much because the acting by Loyd was so bad, I mean, that fake crying "Ugh" and there is really nothing very important said there except for Yoda's and Mace's remarks about "always 2 siths" which are repeated elsewhere in the PT so I think it can be cut out.

As for Qui-gon in EP6, I thought this was just the prolouge?
I don't think the OT should be tampered with to that degree and anyway its Luke's personal "vision" after all and he never knew Qui-gon but that's just my opinion.

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As for Qui-gon in EP6, I thought this was just the prolouge?

That is correct. I only meant that as an idea for someone working on the '97 or '04 SE footage.

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What if instead you had Qui-gon and maybe Mace 'ghost in' at the end of Episode III? It had been discussed on some other thread a while ago. And it might make an interesting parallel with Episode VI.
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I've not seen any of the other 3 into 1 prequel edits, but it is a good idea and possibly the only way to make the prequels watchable (for me anyway), what bothers me most about the prequels is the complete lack of continuity with the original trilogy but with this edit you can probably just skim over the offending stuff without it seeming obvious.

the Jar Jar removal looks great, keep up the good work.
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What if instead you had Qui-gon and maybe Mace 'ghost in' at the end of Episode III?

I especially like your idea IF the movie ends with the sunset scene (when Obi-wan hands off the baby and begins his life of solitude). I will keep this in mind as I get closer to drafting the best possible ending.

@GENERAL
I added a new production log to the title post, to track and document substantive changes to the original footage, subplots, and chronology. I will try to update it as often as possible.
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Originally posted by: Anti-Matter
Are you sure that Qui-gon should (or needs to) ghost-out at the moment of death? I have to check again, but someone I spoke with seemed to "know" instantly that Qui-gon cannot ghost-out, based on a private conversation between Yoda and Obi-wan.

This was originally all explained in episode III, but as Liam Neeson didn't want to reprise his role the scene was cut. The novel is a must read if not for this scene alone.
In short: when Jedis die, they stop existing, like normal beings. Qui-Gon Jin however learned how to 'join with the Force, yet retain consciousness'. So after he died he was still able to talk with Yoda through the Force. He told Yoda what he had learned and also told him that with training 'perhaps, in time, even your physical self' could be retained.
So there you have it: Qui-Gon didn't disappear because only his mind became one with the Force. Obi-Wan was the first to become physically one with the Force, thus disappearing.

If only it were possible to add this scene to the film (Neeson soundalikes step up please)...
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Originally posted by: DarthBo
Originally posted by: Anti-Matter
Are you sure that Qui-gon should (or needs to) ghost-out at the moment of death? I have to check again, but someone I spoke with seemed to "know" instantly that Qui-gon cannot ghost-out, based on a private conversation between Yoda and Obi-wan.

This was originally all explained in episode III, but as Liam Neeson didn't want to reprise his role the scene was cut. The novel is a must read if not for this scene alone.
In short: when Jedis die, they stop existing, like normal beings. Qui-Gon Jin however learned how to 'join with the Force, yet retain consciousness'. So after he died he was still able to talk with Yoda through the Force. He told Yoda what he had learned and also told him that with training 'perhaps, in time, even your physical self' could be retained.
So there you have it: Qui-Gon didn't disappear because only his mind became one with the Force. Obi-Wan was the first to become physically one with the Force, thus disappearing.

If only it were possible to add this scene to the film (Neeson soundalikes step up please)...


I'd rather Qui-Gon just disappeared then you wouldn't need the terrible explanation! this is George's attempt to explain Obi-Wan's line "I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" but that could have easily been explained away by the fact Anakin was not a Jedi Master and may not have learned all the jedi's secrets, even if he knew jedi disappeared (he should do he killed enough!) he still wouldn't know they had the power to come back. (all this is of course based on information from the Original trilogy, or at least doesn't contradict it, unlike the prequels)

you could also consider showing some other Jedi disappearing during the Order 66 and Genosis sequence.

I'd also love it if you could remove the emperor's melted face from EPIII, as this really didn't need to be explained in the prequels.

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Yes, but if all Jedi could just pop right back after they died they could've just kept on training new jedi, couldn't they?
If I were themthough I'd just pop right in front of Sidious and bother him to death "you can't kill me, you can't kill me, silly silly Sith Lord".
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Originally posted by: DarthBo


If only it were possible to add this scene to the film (Neeson soundalikes step up please)...


Ahhh ... yes that would have done it. But alas it was not to be, so we are left with the inconsistency we have now. I would suggest making Qui-gon disapear since creating a GC scene using Neeson soundalikes would be (not impossible) but far more difficult.

Edit
Btw, I hope everyone realizes that we are not talking about the "novels" we are talking about a film series that doesn't matchup with itself ...

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Anti-matter, thanks for your reply to my questions, I really appreciate it.

In the matter of Qui-gon, I believe making him disappear would be problematic, as we would be left with the question of why he did dissappear when all the other Jedi that died in Geonosis did not. In the Episode II novel Yoda is surprised when he is in meditation while Anakin is killing the Tuskens and he hears Qui-Gon's voice, he is surprised because up until that point no Jedi was able to retain his identity after becoming one with the force. This is the technique that Yoda will learn from Qui-Gon and pass on to Obi-Wan between Episodes III and IV, I think this is best left alone as seen in the films, it adds a little mistery and if anyone tries to change it it would only become more problematic and confusing.

My opinion is it should be left alone, we know enough, before Qui-Gon all Jedi would die and become one with the force ala "Nirvana", he somehow found a way to retain his identity and communicate with the living after death, he passed on this knowledge to Yoda and Obi-Wan who perfected this technique and therefore dissapeared after death and were able to communicate with Luke as a voice in ANH and later on as an apparition.
I wish I had a Kryptonite cross, because then you could keep both Dracula AND Superman away.
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Anti-Matter

I just finished downloading the Part 1 (early screening).divx.avi today and saw it and I really like it so far... really tight!

This is a few things I would consider doing (besides my majorly awesome sugestion of ghost-rotoscoping Neeson out )

I know you have featherd all the swipes and transitions already so that's moot.

Another inconsistency from the Prequels that makes me dislike them so... in the Ep. IV Ben says to Luke that he has not gone by the name of Obiwan since "Oh, before you were born".
I wonder if there is a way to change it in your Prologue so that everyone calls him "Ben" Kenobi instead -- at least during the time of the Jedi Purge. I know it may be impossible to do but its something to consider ... and I can dream can't I?

There were scenes during the Jedi purge where more Jedi are being killed (like the Twi'lek Jedi Aayla Secura) I think you should include them. It makes the purge seem bigger, more widespread.

I also think you should use more "starwarsy" font for the time stamp text during the fadeouts. Maybe the same as the opening "A long time ago in a Galaxy far, far away ...". The reason i say this is that in Star Wars proper this is the only time descriptive text appears on the screen aside from the opening crawl. Maybe it would be a good idea to stay consistent with the opening text.

Oh, one last thing the dialog is so bad in these prequels ..., I hate that close-up on OB1's face during the Grevious duel, you know, right when Grevious says "..you're doomed!" and then OB1 replies with the brilliant ingenious retort "Oh, I don't think so!" Leave Grevious and remove Kenobi's close up and his bad reply and I'll be your best friend.

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...you should use more "starwarsy" font for the time stamp text during the fadeouts.
Yes, Commander Courage raised the same concern, and I have since changed the graphics to match both the font and color used in the title card. So we now have something like this:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4833/textoverlay0ez0.pnghttp://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2865/textoverlay1wq2.png

Another inconsistency from the Prequels that makes me dislike them so... in the Ep. IV Ben says to Luke that he has not gone by the name of Obiwan since "Oh, before you were born".
I am aware of this, but it never really bothered me storywise because Ben is much older and so it is easy (at least for me) to forgive his lack of precision when he recalls the past. Nonetheless, I think it would make more sense to edit the one line in EP4, so that Ben says, "I have not gone by the name of Obi-wan for a long time," or "I have not gone by the name of Obi-wan since you were born" (simply removing the word, "before"). Perhaps an opportunity was missed in Adywan's Revisited edit.

There were scenes during the Jedi purge where more Jedi are being killed (like the Twi'lek Jedi Aayla Secura) I think you should include them. It makes the purge seem bigger, more widespread.

You are correct. There are three more sequences. They were originally included in my first story board, but they interrupted the pace and I do not want to generate too much sadness and dispair early in the movie. I need to save some of this depressing footage, because we will be returning to the first time arc later in the movie.

I hate that close-up on OB1's face during the Grevious duel, you know, right when Grevious says "..you're doomed!" and then OB1 replies with the brilliant ingenious retort "Oh, I don't think so!"

It seems many people have issues with Grievous and his dialogue; but I am not bothered by his character. He is who he is.
I like the sequence because of the intense eye exchange before battle. But what if the two characters simply said nothing at that moment? It just so happens that we do not see Obi-wan's mouth, so it would be easy to either alter or remove speech.

Again, I am not bothered by the original exchange, but I will listen to ideas about improving the moment.
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everything looks good. for a quick suggestion, you may want to consider putting the text in all caps. Seems to be pretty standard for all subtitling and other text additions. I think because I am accustomed to this, the lower case really stands out and seems awkward.

ThrowgnCpr’s edits on Fanedit.org

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There were scenes during the Jedi purge where more Jedi are being killed (like the Twi'lek Jedi Aayla Secura)


Sorry, but did I miss something? How can they be included, I thought that these scenes were unreleased, and that all that existed of them were stills from making-ofs etc. Were you planning to recreate them through some visual effects wizardry that doesn't seem possible?
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Originally posted by: Owen-Lars-Kenobi
Sorry, but did I miss something?

Context.

He was comparing sequences from the DVD with sequences that appeared in the early screener. No wizardry required
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Originally posted by: Anti-Matter


I am aware of this, but it never really bothered me storywise because Ben is much older and so it is easy (at least for me) to forgive his lack of precision when he recalls the past. ... Perhaps an opportunity was missed in Adywan's Revisited edit. I know but it didn't happen. I was thinking of a way that it could be done -- the word "been" is somtimes pronounced a lot like "Ben". Maybe editing in the word "been" from other dialoug perhaps lifted from other movies portman, jackson, christiansen, etc, have done , you may be able to acomplish this. Maybe worth a shot.


I need to save some of this depressing footage, because we will be returning to the first time arc later in the movie.
Oh okay, you should add them later on when you return to the time. They are actualy really well done and some of the few scenes I actually liked from the prequels.


But what if the two characters simply said nothing at that moment? It just so happens that we do not see Obi-wan's mouth, so it would be easy to either alter or remove speech.
Excellent. Do that, as long as they keep their mouth's shut.

Anyway, have you guys seen the "Star Wars Episode III Re-Edit" by BrachioInGen on Youtube? I just saw it last night and I really like the idea of keeping Vader/Anakin secret until Episode V. and Leia/Luke secret until Ep. VI! Its actually one of the best editing jobs I've ever seen. He also edits out some really bad dialogue as well. I hope you are using some of his ideas for this prologue.

I also want to talk about another inconsistency --- The Leia discussion with Luke on Endor. After watching BrachioInGen's edit an idea hit me that maybe Padme doesn't have to die after all.

Here are my thoughts on what could be done to keep Padme alive at the end of ROST.

1. Remove the subplot of Anakin wanting to save Padme from death. I and many people never liked it because when Anakin chokes her it defeats the whole premise of him wanting to save her. I always thought it was pretty stupid and his motivation for turning to the darkside should have always been simply "Anakin’s thirst for unlimited power".

2. Delete the shots in which she dies on the operation table, obviously, as well as "lost the will to live" as BrachioInGen did.

3. there is a shot of senator Organa Jimmy Smits with his wife on Alderan holding a baby. Maybe you can rotoscop his wife's face/head out and replace it with Padme, so it looks like she's holding the baby. Its a brief scene. We don't even have to know which twin ( Luke or Leia) it is.

4. Padme can also be rotoscoped into the final shot with OB1 handing the baby over to the Lars. Perhaps you can use a shot of her crying as would make sense if she's giving up her child.

So a scenario of how it may work out can play out like this; Padme is giving birth to the babies with Kenobi there to comfort her. She does not die. We cut to a scene of her holding her baby with Jimmy Smits. Cut to the scene were Yoda explains to Smits and OB1 that Luke must be hidden on Tatowine and Kenobi must watch over him. Then, OB1 and perhaps Padme crying handing the baby over to the Lars. End.

May be plausible...

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This type of discussion and brain storming is good, regardless of what happens.

The Holy Grail of a PT edit (if I may be so bold) is to support Ben's deception in EP4: "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father."

The immediate problem is twofold.

First, there is one person throughout the PT doing most of the betraying: Palpatine/Lord Sidious/Emperor. Second, there is a different person doing most of the killing: Anakin Skywalker.

The challenge in an edit--if you share my contention--is also twofold: First, you need to create a credible sense that there is ANOTHER figure (or force) at work in EP2 and EP3.
Second, you need to create an intentionally ambiguous suggestion for Anakin's death.

If you can pull off both of these elements, then you have the perfect device for supporting and maintaining The Big Reveal in EP5: "No. I am your father!" There is then no need to obsess about Padme or babies. Instead, you can concentrate on the normal details that are important for any good movie (e.g., the story telling, timing, cuts, effects, etc.).

The second challenge is the easy one: Just leave Anakin dying at the lava lake, which is what BrachioInGen does. The million dollar question is how to create the suggestion that "Anakin is near death because he was betrayed and then mutilated by someone named Darth Vader." Obi-wan, of all people, is actually responsible for the transformation of Anakin into the infamous Vader form, because it is Obi-wan who nearly kills Anakin. How's that for royally screwed up?

Well, of course, there is no other character that we can readily twist or manipulate in these prequels to draw attention away from Anakin. Anakin is the one with the arrogance and the attitude; Anakin is the one struggling with self-control; and Anakin is the one who lurks around in a hooded robe at night killing anything that pisses him off. There is no hiding this from the audience, because it is embedded into the plots and story lines of both EP2 and EP3.

It may be that the best--and perhaps only--candidate is Palpatine. That is, exploit the Palpatine/Emperor/Sidious element to contrive some confusion and/or suggestion that Anakin dies at the hands of someone other than Obi-wan. That other someone is revealed to be "Darth Vader" when we reach EP4, and then only in EP5 do we realize that (a) there have been two principal villains all along, and (b) Vader is in fact Anakin Skywalker, whom we believed had been betrayed and slain prior to EP4.

I am primarily thinking out loud here, so don't quote me or assume that I've solved these problems in the Prologue
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Originally posted by: Anti-Matter It may be that the best--and perhaps only--candidate is Palpatine. That is, exploit the Palpatine/Emperor/Sidious element to contrive some confusion and/or suggestion that Anakin dies at the hands of someone other than Obi-wan. That other someone is revealed to be "Darth Vader" when we reach EP4, and then only in EP5 do we realize that (a) there have been two principal villains all along, and (b) Vader is in fact Anakin Skywalker, whom we believed had been betrayed and slain prior to EP4.


I see what you're getting at, how to create the sense that Anakin was killed by a "Darth Vader". One we never see ... hmmm...
But, couldn't the audience KNOW that Ben is lying to Luke in ANH but still think Darth Vader is a separate person? Nobody has to know that Anakin is Darth Vader just that Ben is lying about how Luke's father died because the audience knows Ben Killed him. Why would Ben tell luke he killed his father? But of course he is really lying because of who his father is. This can play out quite well..


Anyway, I just thought I'd link to these shorts I found on Youtube from "G4 Attack of the show"":
(They pretty much say it all)

Star Wars

The Empire Strikes Back

Return of the Jedi


It seems you have your work cut out for you, Anti-Matter ...

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Anyway, I just thought I'd link to these shorts I found on Youtube from "G4 Attack of the show"":
(They pretty much say it all)

Those clips are so appropriate, and damn hilarious
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