logo Sign In

.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *) — Page 72

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Moth3r
<3 X0 lolcats!

I expect it will be a long time before we see the OOT in HD, if indeed ever (the closest we'll get will be a fan recreation such as PaulisDead2221's Vintage Edit). And anyone who's examined the GOUT in detail, or tried to improve it, will know that some of the flaws of that DVD are irrepairable.

That is why we need a preservation that combines the best available laserdisc sources. Maybe I'll start Moth3r V2.0 this year.
How is it that the GOUT is a worse source than the LDs? Isn't the GOUT a better representation of the masters?

Sorry if this has already been explained in-depth (as I'm sure it has been- ad nauseum). I have a 9-year old computer with a dial-up connection, so the X0 project will be finished before I can wade through all 89 pages of this thread.

Author
Time
Post link
OK danielb


How dare you name he who shall not be named!


<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Ouch.

I guess with my 2-year-old computer and 3 megabit DSL I'm lucky then :/

Anyway - the DVD... I think it's sourced from the same master as the DE/THX discs? but then filtered a bit and compressed a bit more, and those filters didn't exactly help the quality...

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Mielr
How is it that the GOUT is a worse source than the LDs? Isn't the GOUT a better representation of the masters?


I'm afraid you really will have to wade through all 89 pages for the answer to this one. Or you could head over to the X0 website and read their GOUT article.

The short answer is that the GOUT is an inferior source because it's been compressed for DVD.

(edit) Oh hi Molly, didn't see you there.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Zion
And speaking of which, no we still have not heard anything from Laserman since last time we posted about him. He told us he'd be out of commission for a while so we can only assume he's still fighting to recover.


I would hope that those few of us who know how to get in touch with Laserman or his family would from time to time let them know we are all thinking of him and are praying for him........

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Molly
Ouch.

I guess with my 2-year-old computer and 3 megabit DSL I'm lucky then :/

Yes, I'm planning on buying a new computer soon- as soon as I can get to the Apple store. It's a testament to the quality of Apple computers that my iMac has lasted this long.
Originally posted by: Molly
Anyway - the DVD... I think it's sourced from the same master as the DE/THX discs? but then filtered a bit and compressed a bit more, and those filters didn't exactly help the quality...


Yup, they're from the Definitive Collection & Faces THX LD masters.

Originally posted by: strangelove
I'm afraid you really will have to wade through all 89 pages for the answer to this one. Or you could head over to the X0 website and read their GOUT article.

The short answer is that the GOUT is an inferior source because it's been compressed for DVD.

"The Verdict Is In" article? That's the only one I see on the X0 site regarding the GOUT DVDs, and it really doesn't go into why the LDs are better than the DVDs, or compression issues with the GOUT DVDs.

I thought I remembered Zion saying something once in this thread (around the time the GOUT DVDs came out) about the resolution of the DVDs and the X0 captures being about equal (?)

Oh and.....
http://imgcash5.imageshack.us/Himg246/scaled.php?server=246&filename=creamybeggingx0hn4.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480
(sorry, I couldn't resist)

Author
Time
Post link
One of the biggest complaints people have with the GOUT is BECAUSE they used the same source as the Laserdisc.
It is a 29.97 interlaced master tape not 24 fps film.

They then had some intern pretend to inverse telecine it back to progressive for the DVD leaving all sorts of interlacing artifacts.

As a result you are left with damage that cannot be repaired without orders of magnitude more difficulty.
The laserdisc, still telecined, can be cleanly IVTC'd properly to restore the original frames.

The artifacts also increase the complexity of the video, burn bitrate, increase compression artifacts, and prevent reasonable upscaling to anamorphic.

Dr. M

Author
Time
Post link
Ok, that explains it then. Thanks.

Author
Time
Post link
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1165/x0cat5lt6.jpg ROFL! That's awesome!

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
I remember hearing that the LD telecine on the Definitive Collection LD's changes at points. A friend used both the Faces and the DC LD's for their project. They just used some frames from the Faces LD's to fill in for some frames that break the telecine pattern during the DC side transitions.

I had two or three IVTC problems with my own project which used just the DC LD's. A couple of scenes did not not appear smooth because the pattern had shifted. I know the 3:2 pattern shifts in ANH right after Ben tells Luke that he will have to sell his speeder. I have a rough spot in my project where Han is confronted by Greedo.




Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
Author
Time
Post link
After living with the GOUT DVDs for over a year and the Faces and DC Laserdiscs for about 4 years now, here's my experience with both:

I made my own DVD-R copies of my Faces LDs 4 years ago, in fact, I purchased a LD player and a DVD recorder just for that purpose. The LD-copies looked good on my TV (which is interlaced), so I was horrified when I viewed them on my computer and saw the constant motion-artifacts (the ones that look like horizontal lines on anything that moves).

I was so distracted by that, that I didn't notice some of the other problems like the aliasing (the motion artifacts actually obscured most of the aliasing), so when I got the GOUT DVDs and watched them on my computer, the motion artifacts were very obviously gone, and the first thing that jumped out at me was the aliasing.

Now that I've watched the GOUT DVDs several times, I look back at my own LD-copies and can see past the motion artifacts and notice the problems on the GOUT DVDs are also present on my LD-copies.

So, needless to say, I'm very interested in seeing the finished X0 project, and the result of combining the best qualities of the DC and SC LDs.

Author
Time
Post link
Mielr, the flaw was not in your transfer to DVD-r.
Although most preservation projects IVTC back to 23.976, for a quick and easy transfer it's fine to keep the telecining like that.

It only looked bad on your PC because computer monitors are progressive display and the field interlace lines are visible.

Any reasonably good DVD playback software (and most video card drivers) have built in deinterlacing algorithms that should have removed those lines on playback.
It sounds like you just didn't set your software up right.

Dr. M

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Doctor M

Any reasonably good DVD playback software (and most video card drivers) have built in deinterlacing algorithms that should have removed those lines on playback.
It sounds like you just didn't set your software up right.

I doubt I can find any software updates for OS 8.6

My point is that the flaws I see on the GOUT are the same flaws I see on the LD-dubs. I only mentioned the motion artifacts because they hid problems that were revealed once I saw the GOUT (unhampered by the motion artifacts).

Author
Time
Post link
Ah, you're a mac, that explains your problem right there.

Dr. M

Author
Time
Post link
Ouch!

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
No "ouch" here. My sister's IBM that she bought the same year I got my iMac (1999) has been in a landfill for a few years already. It'll be a MacBook for me next, which will be my only my 2nd computer in 10 years- not bad.

Author
Time
Post link
Well, this eMachines is my second computer since getting off Welfare in 2003...

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Molly
Well, this eMachines is my second computer since getting off Welfare in 2003...


I feel your pain Molly, the first computer I ever got good at was one of those things. eMachines = for the lose.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

Author
Time
Post link
Tell me about it. This is the first computer I've owned, where the RAM went bad. The built-in DVD reader went kaput, and the first Linux distro I ran off it didn't really support the video hardware. (The one I'm using now *does*, however.)

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

Author
Time
Post link
The X0 team used the PDI Deluxe card for their captures, right. Did you ever encounter any problems with part of the frame being clipped off because the video was not completely centered in the capture window?

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

Author
Time
Post link
I don't recall the video moving around more than a few pixels. That being said, I've usually been more focused on what's in the frame. I recall looking over the video I had fixed up to that point, and seeing lots of white squigglies in the black letterboxing that I'd completely missed because I had the image zoomed in, cutting out most of those sections.

I would certainly like to get rid of the movement, and put new black mattes over the letterboxing.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi

I would certainly like to get rid of the movement, and put new black mattes over the letterboxing.


So, the finished X0 product will be letterboxed, then? Will there be an anamorphic version as well?