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STAR WARS: EP IV 2004 REVISITED ADYWAN *1080p HD VERSION NOW IN PRODUCTION — Page 132
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I haven't had a chance to watch the entire movie yet. I'm sure I'll have more to say when I do.
For those of you still wondering, Infodroid and I are still around.
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Anyway, I'm going to sleep now.
EDIT: Arghh... I had to retouch the contrast a little bit. Good night everyone
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Also, I have to agree with some of the others, the death star at the end of that sequence does not look very good IMO.
Venerable member of the “Red Eye” Knights
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Originally posted by: AuggieBenDoggie
Ok, finally had the chance to ceck out the fruits of Ady's hard labor, brilliant work, simply brilliant! I really didn't have a problem with anything. The only thng I think could still use just a little work (and this is just my opinion ) is the attack of the ties. It just plays out a bit too slow and a little too static. The shot wants to play off like the start of the ROTJ space battle ( fast with dynamic flight paths ). Ady, would you consider reworking that sequence further. I have 5 years with Maya and can wip up a test shot if your ok with it.
Also, I have to agree with some of the others, the death star at the end of that sequence does not look very good IMO.
Ok, finally had the chance to ceck out the fruits of Ady's hard labor, brilliant work, simply brilliant! I really didn't have a problem with anything. The only thng I think could still use just a little work (and this is just my opinion ) is the attack of the ties. It just plays out a bit too slow and a little too static. The shot wants to play off like the start of the ROTJ space battle ( fast with dynamic flight paths ). Ady, would you consider reworking that sequence further. I have 5 years with Maya and can wip up a test shot if your ok with it.
Also, I have to agree with some of the others, the death star at the end of that sequence does not look very good IMO.
I have noticed it aswell. But my mayor concern is the death star seen at the end of that tie fighter shot. It looks stretched and blurry :S Could be easily fixed imo.
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Originally posted by: Mojo_LA
Ok, I've watched the first half (I'm waiting until I have friends over to watch it all) and here's my two cents.
First of all, I should preface this by telling everyone I work in Hollywood as a professional visual effects artist, so my comments are biased towards the effects work.
I'll start by saying Ady has done an outstanding job; the highest compliment anyone in this business can get is when people don't even realize you've done anything, and I know many, many changes went by without me even noticing them! And the ones I did know about were, for the most part, seamless and undetectable.
The only scene I felt stood out as being less than perfect is the big establishing shot of the Death Star over the planet with TIEs and Star Destroyers flying left and right. I assume Ady has created this shot by pulling elements from the three movies and recompositing them; from this, the visual quality of the elements look great, but the scene feels a bit like it was cut and pasted, since the lighting and perspective of the elements do not all match, mostly because they were never meant to go together!
But in an hour of watching, this is the ONLY shot that stood out to me (the same goes for a colleague of mine who has seen the previously released clips). All the work of the extra ships in the Mos Eisley escape sequence was fantastic - watching the movie, I felt a much greater sense of jeapordy for our heroes since you can SEE the huge ships coming after them! And that is what effects work should do - contribute to the story. Ady's work in this scene actually creates heightened emotion! THAT is the best any effects artist can hope to do.
I wasn't a big fan of changing ALL the laser bolts to red/yellow; I like them for the ship blasts, but for the hand guns, it looks a ittle overdone - I like them being the simple red bolt they used to be (save the more complex, powerfull looking blasts for the big ships).
The Cantina scene is flawless; I was confused by the arm on the ground simply because there isn't really enough time to see that the "hand" is a flipper. The flipper may be more accurate, but seeing an actual hand helped make the emotional connection to seeing an arm on the ground and therefore more horrifying; the inital reaction to the new arm is "what was that?" but the human arm makes you go "eeewww, he got his arm cut off!"
But the animated creatures look amazing - this is something that should have been done years ago and they all look perfect. Seeing Greedo blink and have facial expression makes him feel more like a real person and therefore the scene feels just a touch more threatening - perfect!
Ady, I hope you plan to either have an audio commentary track or at least a text commentary pointing out every change you made; I really believe this is ESSENTIAL, because everyone is going to want to know everything that was changed!
Also, I think this edition is going to allow you to get a job at any effects studio in Hollywood, so a commentary track explaining what you did for each shot will serve as your resume, too :-) I'm serious about that!
I can't wait to watch the rest with my pals!
Ok, I've watched the first half (I'm waiting until I have friends over to watch it all) and here's my two cents.
First of all, I should preface this by telling everyone I work in Hollywood as a professional visual effects artist, so my comments are biased towards the effects work.
I'll start by saying Ady has done an outstanding job; the highest compliment anyone in this business can get is when people don't even realize you've done anything, and I know many, many changes went by without me even noticing them! And the ones I did know about were, for the most part, seamless and undetectable.
The only scene I felt stood out as being less than perfect is the big establishing shot of the Death Star over the planet with TIEs and Star Destroyers flying left and right. I assume Ady has created this shot by pulling elements from the three movies and recompositing them; from this, the visual quality of the elements look great, but the scene feels a bit like it was cut and pasted, since the lighting and perspective of the elements do not all match, mostly because they were never meant to go together!
But in an hour of watching, this is the ONLY shot that stood out to me (the same goes for a colleague of mine who has seen the previously released clips). All the work of the extra ships in the Mos Eisley escape sequence was fantastic - watching the movie, I felt a much greater sense of jeapordy for our heroes since you can SEE the huge ships coming after them! And that is what effects work should do - contribute to the story. Ady's work in this scene actually creates heightened emotion! THAT is the best any effects artist can hope to do.
I wasn't a big fan of changing ALL the laser bolts to red/yellow; I like them for the ship blasts, but for the hand guns, it looks a ittle overdone - I like them being the simple red bolt they used to be (save the more complex, powerfull looking blasts for the big ships).
The Cantina scene is flawless; I was confused by the arm on the ground simply because there isn't really enough time to see that the "hand" is a flipper. The flipper may be more accurate, but seeing an actual hand helped make the emotional connection to seeing an arm on the ground and therefore more horrifying; the inital reaction to the new arm is "what was that?" but the human arm makes you go "eeewww, he got his arm cut off!"
But the animated creatures look amazing - this is something that should have been done years ago and they all look perfect. Seeing Greedo blink and have facial expression makes him feel more like a real person and therefore the scene feels just a touch more threatening - perfect!
Ady, I hope you plan to either have an audio commentary track or at least a text commentary pointing out every change you made; I really believe this is ESSENTIAL, because everyone is going to want to know everything that was changed!
Also, I think this edition is going to allow you to get a job at any effects studio in Hollywood, so a commentary track explaining what you did for each shot will serve as your resume, too :-) I'm serious about that!
I can't wait to watch the rest with my pals!
When this edit is all said and done don't you think it would be appropriate to post Adywans work in the forum over at cgtalk, http://forums.cgsociety.org/ I personally think it deserves it!
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More comments from the peanut gallery
First off thanks again for sharing this with the community. When watching this it made me remember why I loved Star Wars when I was growing up.
Things that worked really well: vader/obi duel (nice in intensity but not over the top), the cantina critters, the DS battle for the most part, as well as the new HUDs and other displays/schematics. All the changes tended to be nice and subtle.
As for constuctive crits:
I agree with some of the other folks that the severed hand needs some work because at first I didn't quite get what you were going for until I replayed it in slow motion. Right now it kind of looks like a dark plastic mitten.. The hand although hairy is much easier to identify with for the audience.
I absolutely loved the DS sequence except for the TIE reveal because it completely messes up with the pacing. You start out with a super frantic firefight which I think is fantastic, but then its slowed down by the slow reveal of the tie fighters and the introduction of the imperial march. Since you include the imperial march you had to reuse some reaction shots of pilots as fill-in footage to match musical cues. Once you got back to the original soundtrack, pacing picked up again. It might be better if you keep the original soundtrack in and just have the tie reveal in the same amount of time. The final DS explosion seems a little weak compared to the new beefier Alderan explosion.
But even so the entire film as a whole is pretty close to what I wanted of the special editions so congrats and thanks again.
-kid
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The only thing I'd still think about possibly changing is Obi Wan saying "I wanted you to have this" in reference to Anakin's saber. Which is something I understand Ady wanted to change for a long time but ultimately he wasn't satisfied with how it was turning out.
However, I think the reconstruction of the scene in question no longer calls for the change as much b/c it can be taken more as Obi Wan going into his lying/PoV mode - whereas in the original version it just seemed as though he was lying off the bat before even seeing the hologram and knowing it was time for Luke to begin training. With the shifting around we can take the comment less as an outright lie and more as part of his attempt to lure Luke into training to be a "Jedi" like his father.
Just curious if this is what you were going for Ady?
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- Day 42
- Statement taken from corellian77 in the matter of the people vs. the arm
* * *
I really do feel like we're making a mountain out of a molehill here... but then again, isn't that what Star Wars fans do best?
I'm really surprised so many people don't like this shot. I usually agree with (or at least understand) most of the critical feedback I see posted here, but it would seem I'm totally on a different page with regards to this topic.
First off, for those who want to see a hand in there instead of the flipper, I must say I totally disagree. It's clearly Ponda Baba's arm, it's always been considered as such, and I really see no reason for any tinkering to alter this fact. The only reason I think the shot needed to be altered in the first place was for continuity's sake (there are at least 4 shots prior to seeing the severed arm on the ground where it can clearly be seen that he has a flipper-suction-cup-thingy for a hand). Even starwars.com explains that it's Ponda Baba's arm, as well as the reason for the continuity error:
A continuity error involving Ponda Baba is readily apparent in careful viewing of the film. In the cantina sequences filmed in England, Baba has large fin-like hands. In the insert shot of Baba's severed hand, those fins were not available so a hairy clawed hand was used instead.
Link: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/pondababa/?id=bts
Link: http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/pondababa/?id=bts
So, at the very least, I think the flipper should stay, as it is clearly Ponda's arm and the flipper fixes the continuity error. From here, I believe the only issue becomes whether or not the shot looks okay as is. Again, I think it looks fine, but if Ady feels it needs tweaking as others have said, then I suggest going with NormanS' model, as I must say it looks very good.
“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers
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Is there anyway to add black scorching along the edges of the orange jacket a bit? I think that may add to the effect of a severed arm which has been sliced/burned off by saber.
^^ I made this real quick in PS to illustrate what I mean. I might also take some liberties and make the floor a bit darker and grungy looking.
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Originally posted by: dumb_kid
I absolutely loved the DS sequence except for the TIE reveal because it completely messes up with the pacing.
I absolutely loved the DS sequence except for the TIE reveal because it completely messes up with the pacing.
I didn't find the pacing ruined at all... I felt the slightly long reveal, accompanied by the Imperial March, simply gives the viewer a momentary feeling of suspense and dread. I thought it worked beautifully.
God... if, as Ady said, he's turning into George Lucas, then I feel like I'm turning into an Adywan apologist
“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers
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This reminds me of the difference between 1997 CG Jabba and 2004 CG Jabba... more detail and definition added to make it seem more real.
We never see closeups of Ponda Boba's hands before, but you imagine he wouldn't have perfectly immaculate hands. Scars, wrinkles and that sort of thing are perfectly in keeping with his personality. I think a little more shaping of the flipper to make it more shaped like a hand would go even further. The details added thus far are a definite improvement.
A little more weathering, pores, small hairs, etc. would help get rid of the "rubber" look, and still preserve the fact that it's a flipper and not a human hand (but still suggest it to the audience). The scorching should be darker, right now it looks like it could just be a shadow (I realize it was just a quick PS job).
Now here is another radical suggestion... perhaps the gun itself could be modified so it looks like something that could be used by somebody with "hands" like this? I'm thinking get rid of the trigger finger guard?
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I'll just add to the multitude of responses here with my initial reactions.
- The scene in Obi-Wan's hut was well edited. I never saw a problem with the original version, but after seeing this I must say the conversation seems to flow more naturally.
- The escape from Mos Eisley is great, Han's maneuvers are much better than before when he just veered lazily to the left.
- Regarding the severed arm, I must say it looked a bit odd at first, mainly because I'm used to seeing the furry hand. I do think it looks good enough, but after seeing NormanS's work, if there's any way to add his version into the DVD releases it would look that much more convincing.
- Right after Tarkin's line "Terminate her, immediately" the engine glow on the Falcon is too high and slowly falls into place as the ship flies. It's always been like that and isn't that noticeable. I don't know if it's in your power to fix, but if not it's no biggie.
- The lightsabers look a tad bit fat in some shots, but overall look great. I like how the colors are consistent from shot to shot now.
- I liked the new Death Star reveal after the Kenobi Hut scene (and the lighting looked good to me)
- The lightsaber fight now looks much more energised now. It's amazing what just a little editing can do. The addition of Battle of the Heroes surprised me. I didn't expect to hear any prequel music (or any music at all in that scene for that matter), but it was subdued enough to not overpower the scene, and the musical cues fit well into what was going on.
- The Death Star battle and the Tie Fighter entrance in particular was absolutely brilliant. I love how there are Ties everywhere in that shot, rather than just 6 of them. 6 villains vs 30 heroes isn't very dramatic. Although upon closer inspection, the DS in that shot does look like it has some funky motion blur or something on it.
- Luke's reaction to Biggs' dust-biting is more realistic now but not overdone.
- I didn't think it would make much difference, but seeing the Death Star actually starting to fire as it blows up really ramps up the "That was close!" factor at the end.
Thanks again for all the time you put into this!
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Originally posted by: Kurgan
Nice job on the CG, it looks great! I thought at first I'd hate the "red" DS graphics (too much pandering to the so-so AOTC), but they've already grown on me. I suppose it's a good high contrast color for vector graphics (rather than making it say, blue or something).
When I first finished the mesh and was about to render the first anim (the "R2 download" shot), I was also thinking a color scheme other than red might be good and suggested this to Ady, whereupon he showed me Death Star graphics screen grabs from RTOJ, which were both red -- which convinced that red was probably about the best pick after all to keep things feeling the same through the films, OT as well as PT. There were very few things Ady didn't really think through/research ahead of time on this edit I think. Nice job on the CG, it looks great! I thought at first I'd hate the "red" DS graphics (too much pandering to the so-so AOTC), but they've already grown on me. I suppose it's a good high contrast color for vector graphics (rather than making it say, blue or something).
LightWave = fun times with gfx for me 😃
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I have figured out what niggled about the music in the lightsaber fight though - its not that it is there, as I said b4 its your edit and I totally understand why you've put it in - but the music continues at the same volume as Han Luke and Leia turn up, and 3PO and R2 start moving to the Falcon. So you've got really heroic 'action' music as R2 and 3PO just stand there......its something they do in Torchwood: they had exciting music playing as a fella opened a drawer last week..
Is it worth knocking it back in volume for that bit?
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Originally posted by: RyecatcheR
The ONLY thing that I 'missed' in terms of editing was, following Artoo being blasted by Vader during the trench run, we are no longer treated to Threepio's 'distressed' reaction following Luke saying, "I lost Artoo!" It's a moment that helps us connect to the droids as characters, so I'm not sure why it was removed.
The ONLY thing that I 'missed' in terms of editing was, following Artoo being blasted by Vader during the trench run, we are no longer treated to Threepio's 'distressed' reaction following Luke saying, "I lost Artoo!" It's a moment that helps us connect to the droids as characters, so I'm not sure why it was removed.
I thought I missed that because I was too busy looking at the holograms etc! Is that scene really gone? It'd be sad, because that was one of my favourite Star Wars moments...
@Norman: I like what you did with the flipper, I was all for adding the human's hand, but now I think the flipper may just work. However, the way it is now, it looks fake. Perhaps making the entire scene (so the arm, the floor, the shadows, ...) from scratch would be better (only it you can pull it off though
) 
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I think I'll wait for the dvd
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As for the flipper, the shadow extends toward the right of the frame and up a bit, which from what I can see matches all the existing shadows.
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