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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 48

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This is where individual Main Editors would be handy. Each could coordinate the individual projects while a Ranch Manager could supervise continuity, etc. I'd love to edit, but I just am not that savvy. I am more of an idea guy.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
This is where individual Main Editors would be handy. Each could coordinate the individual projects while a Ranch Manager could supervise continuity, etc. I'd love to edit, but I just am not that savvy. I am more of an idea guy.


Right. I think this is a great idea- as long as each editor is on the same page in terms of our basic goals for the project.

I think it'd be so exciting because the enthusiasm would be high around the board. With only 30 minutes to be responsible for, each editor would hopefully pour all of their creativity into their designated piece, and then when you assemble these inspired chunks and the whole film becomes brilliant and inspired (theoretically). At the end, though, like you said, a master editor would need to take the 4 or 5 different pieces and make sure they work well together, making minor changes as needed. In theory, we could wait until the end with the special FX. Wherever we need a shot, we put in a slate marked "TEMP." When the cut is locked, we send it to Adywan, who now has enough context to do the FX shots.

Story-wise, a really, really heavy influence on SOTDS was Mr. Haslett. He was a key member of the Ranch and I think we need his input because he came up with some brilliant solutions to tricky problems.

But really, all we need now is a final concept and script, Sluggo and Co. for alien voices, and four excited editors. Assuming LTH is still interested, I could certainly pick up a 30 min. chunk and deliver it on time; that's much less daunting than doing everything for an entire movie.

That leaves 2 editors and a "Ranch Manager."

If we get two more editors willing to commit, then I think this project is a go.

It's too bad my SOTDS isn't out yet, because I think it would have acted as an incentive for people to help on Episode I....

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I don't have much time to comment at the moment. I'll be back with more details and ideas later. But I did want to say I am interested in this. I don't know that I could really necessarily be one of those main editors; I have Adobe Premiere Elements, but I've had difficulties, and I don't know what everyone else would be using, and how consistent it would be. However, I could still help with music editing. Trooperman, you have a pretty good idea from my situation from the comments in your thread. I think I still have that take I did for the "Padme Meets Anakin" Starkiller Ranch version, which actually included the new version of music for that scene, plus that for the group leaving Watto's shop. I had done some experiments for the Duel in the Desert, and I have a pretty good idea of the concept for it. It did largely depend on whether or not Maul was Grievous, though. I had some other ideas musically and storywise, with a lot of the latter being for Episode III. I posted my thoughts for the big duel a while back, if anyone remembers. I can dig those back up. I could also make a list of alternate and unused music from both trilogies, and if I know what scenes are actually being cut full out, I can add any music for those scenes to the list of usable music.

And Trooperman, don't worry about SOTDS, man. In fact, Erik had a thought there with how standalone TPM is. I'm sure we can get some work started on that. There would be things like Maul/Grievous to work out, but other than that, I think we would just need to make sure any characters that were dubbed in SOTDS that are also in TPM would need to be consistent.
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Originally posted by: Darth Richard
I don't think its fully gone. Last time I can remember we decided on using Adywan's OT with just some minor tweaks. So we just have to do TPM, and ROTS.
I think its just on hold for a little.
I hope it doesn't die, this was the greatest Fan Edit idea EVER!


Since Ady's ANH edit is about done... this means exactly what for the Ranch?

And I'm thinking about starting a poll under General Discussion about the whole Maul/Grevious idea.
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I think it would behoove us to get some preliminary discussion going for now at least, and with ANH coming very soon, and SOTDS this year, then hopefully that should help us further along, even if we've made a ridiculous amount of progress. A poll for Maul/Grievous sounds good, and hopefully that will consolidate all the points for and against the idea--and just how feasible (adywan said it could be possible).
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Well, there has been a bit of discussion now abouot Grevious and Maul. Thoughts?

Personally, I'd like to see it if it is possible. But it would take not only what ever effects were possible, but it would have to have a good purpose in the film, fit with the dialogue (especially between Grevious/Maul and Obi-wan and between Grevious/Maul and Sidious) etc.


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Hello again, friends. I apologize if I've left you "high and dry" in regards to this project, but I've been a busy guy over these last months with college, work, and the general living of life. I do still lurk here but haven't had much to say lately. It's great to see Adywan's edit released (I'm downloading it now, haha), and I'm realy looking forward to Dark Helmet's "The Dark Times."

As for me and this project, I don't know if I'll ever be in a position to take it all on myself, but let me tell you about what I'm up to. I'm a Media Production major (which is basically Radio/TV/Film, I don't know why they changed the name), and this semester I'm taking a in-depth editing class that teaches the ins and outs of Apple's multimedia suite, in particualr Final Cut Pro. This will finally give me the opportunity to learn everything I need to know about *professional* editing. The only problem is I don't have a Mac myself, though I plan to get a top-of-the-line one when I graduate, so I'll have to use the computers at school until then. I have career aspirations in media, but more in the creative department such as writing. Professional editing is a good gig which can bring in some serious money if you play your cards right, so that's definitely something I'm going to look into as alternative income. Weddings, vacations, etc, people pay good money for someone to package together these things for them on DVD. Anyway, that's where I'm coming from, and in a couple of years maybe I'll be able to hammer all these things out myself in my spare time, but for now I just really need to focus on getting in a good starting point for my career.

All that said, I was hoping I could still contribute idea wise to this project. Honestly for a while there I was burned out on Star Wars, but Adywan's project has reignited my interest in that galaxy far, far away. So I'll be around for discussion if you'll have me.
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Hello again, friends. I apologize if I've left you "high and dry" in regards to this project, but I've been a busy guy over these last months with college, work, and the general living of life. I do still lurk here but haven't had much to say lately. It's great to see Adywan's edit released (I'm downloading it now, haha), and I'm realy looking forward to Dark Helmet's "The Dark Times."

As for me and this project, I don't know if I'll ever be in a position to take it all on myself, but let me tell you about what I'm up to. I'm a Media Production major (which is basically Radio/TV/Film, I don't know why they changed the name), and this semester I'm taking a in-depth editing class that teaches the ins and outs of Apple's multimedia suite, in particualr Final Cut Pro. This will finally give me the opportunity to learn everything I need to know about *professional* editing. The only problem is I don't have a Mac myself, though I plan to get a top-of-the-line one when I graduate, so I'll have to use the computers at school until then. I have career aspirations in media, but more in the creative department such as writing. Professional editing is a good gig which can bring in some serious money if you play your cards right, so that's definitely something I'm going to look into as alternative income. Weddings, vacations, etc, people pay good money for someone to package together these things for them on DVD. Anyway, that's where I'm coming from, and in a couple of years maybe I'll be able to hammer all these things out myself in my spare time, but for now I just really need to focus on getting in a good starting point for my career.

All that said, I was hoping I could still contribute idea wise to this project. Honestly for a while there I was burned out on Star Wars, but Adywan's project has reignited my interest in that galaxy far, far away. So I'll be around for discussion if you'll have me.


I'm glad you're back for discussion! Believe me, we all know what it's like not to have enough time for this stuff Good luck with the editing!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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My only issue with the concept of this thread is that WHY ON EARTH would we want to make the three GOOD movies in the Star Wars saga be a better match for the BAD ones??

Desacrating Star Wars so it has better continuity with the prequels is like pouring salt all over a perfectly prepared meal so it better matches the peanuts you ate at the bar.
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Mojo,

I think the goal of this project has always been to alter the Original Trilogy as little as possible, changing mostly the prequels to fit with the OT better. But this has also been a place where people throw out wacky ideas (well, OK, most of that was me) just for the sake of entertaining them.

Of course, on its own, the original Star Wars is a great movie that doesn't need any changes. I don't think a person on this board would want to see it disappear forever, even if Lucas had released Adywan's edit in '97. No one here is looking to take away from its greatness.

But when you start heaping all the other movies on top of the original movie, things don't all fit together so well, and a lot of people can't enjoy them together. I can enjoy 4 and 5, but 6 gets on my nerves, and then the prequels just make me sad. It's like two halves of a bridge, each one starting from the opposite side, and they don't meet in the middle! The Starkiller Ranch is about fixing that bridge.

The Vader/Ben fight in Star Wars is a good example of this. If you just see ANH, you can enjoy it. You've never seen a saber duel before, you don't know how these things work, and you're amazed. But when you see all the other Episodes, the duel becomes slow and unexciting in comparison. Obi Wan moves around like a statue, while Dooku managed to do flips off balconies. So you add in a little music and pick up the pace through editing (as Adywan has done), and you've got a more "comparable" duel. You haven't changed the characters any, and you haven't added any unrealistic superpowers.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Good explanation. Of course, ROTJ has had some pretty radical (and pretty cool edits in my opinion) editorial ideas to make it a stronger movie.
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Yeah, ROTJ is something I'd love to rearrange.

Well, I might be interested in doing some editing here; I plan to create a "me version" eventually anyway. Something that'll fit in with SOTDS and Adywan's ANH (with maybe one audio edit here).

I have toyed with the idea of using the Anchorhead Luke/Biggs scene as a kind of "last time, on Star Wars" before the opening title like the old serials had, but I know that'll probably be seen as blasphemy. Of course, the fact that Biggs is given importance but not explained only intensifies the experience of coming into a serial halfway through. Then again, this is probably not the right thread to discuss this.

On the other hand, I'm sort of in the middle of planning an edit of Transformers.
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You guys realize Star Wars won the OSCAR for editing? I strongly disagree with the idea of re-editing anything in that movie.

The lightsaber fight is not as intensely choreographed as the other films, but it never really bothered me too much because we CARE about those characters. The prequels were more about the action and less about characters you cared about.

As I mentioned in Ady's thread, just "throwing in some music" in that scene is not a way to make it work. The lack of music during that fight is a very important and deliberate choice; because the entire movie is scored, not having music there brings more weight and importance to the scene - it makes it more tense and "realistic" because the presence of music always lets you know you're watching a story, a fantasy; the lack of music focuses you more deeply. This is Ben's last moment, and adding music to this scene "fluffs" it up and puts the focus on the film making - without it, you are more "with the characters."

In addition, the lack of music for a few minutes gives the next piece you hear more vibrancy, and "Ben's Death" is one of the most emotionally stirring parts of the score; by adding music right before it, you take away from its impact.

Ok, so it's not a fast light saber fight, so what? Does it make you not enjoy the film? If Ben WERE doing back flips and spins, you'd be pointing at the screen saying "cool!" as opposed to genuinely be worried about the plight of the character. EMPIRE has the best lightsaber duel of all the films because you CARE about what's happening. The prequels have far more action in the fights, but I was bored to death because back flips and high jumps don't make it a better movie.

I like most of what Ady did, but my friends and I were horrified at the music added to the saber fight in ANH. It doesn't belong there and is a far worse change than anything Lucas ever did. I'll take a 100 Greedos firing first over THAT.
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[austinpowers]Please allow myself to repeat myself:[/austinpowers]


Of course, on its own, the original Star Wars is a great movie that doesn't need any changes. I don't think a person on this board would want to see it disappear forever, even if Lucas had released Adywan's edit in '97. No one here is looking to take away from its greatness.


Mojo, I hope you are not falling into the Lucas fallacy that there can only be one version of Star Wars. No one here wants to throw the original Star Wars out with the trash, or to say that the Starkiller Ranch version of Episode IV (if it even gets made) is better than the original. Star Wars is one of the best movies ever made in the history of cinema. We only want to create an alternate version that blends better with the entire saga. And we can only do so much with what we have.

But when you are done filming your own prequel trilogy, which matches the OT in terms of continuity and tone, please let us know.

This place is a playground of ideas. I respect yours, but I disagree.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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we can only do so much with what we have

And that is the point, here - camera shake, aliens with moving faces and some extra effects are all things that can be done to make ANH feel more modern, but there's just nothing you can do to the Lightsaber fight (short of reshooting it) that can "fix" it. Hamfistedly laying music behind it doesn't appreciably change it or make it better, so why not just leave it be?

Most of what Ady has done to his cut DOES help it, but I think in a few spots he suffers from "kid with a new toy" syndrome and is finding every last change he can make just for the sake of it.

I'm still not sure why he recut Ben & Luke's scene to the original script; it was cut the way it is in the final for a very good reason, and I'm not sure why he (or anyone) thinks it should have been redone.

I love the idea of fixing things, but if it ain't broke...

And there is SO much that *is* broke to focus on!

But when you are done filming your own prequel trilogy, which matches the OT in terms of continuity and tone, please let us know.

Well, that's the other point - hopefully in 50 years someone WILL remake the prequels and they'll finally be some good movies to follow up the OT with.
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Getting things back on topic...
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Well, there has been a bit of discussion now abouot Grevious and Maul. Thoughts?

Personally, I'd like to see it if it is possible. But it would take not only what ever effects were possible, but it would have to have a good purpose in the film, fit with the dialogue (especially between Grevious/Maul and Obi-wan and between Grevious/Maul and Sidious) etc.

I've always wanted to see this change, it's one of the big reasons I want to edit the PT. Without it Grevious is just a throw away villain, and not a very good one at that. With it, it not only adds continuity to the never ending villain parade of the prequel trilogy, but makes his final confrontation with Obi-Wan actually matter. I've gone into detail many times in the past about how to accomplish this, but I'll have to do some backtracking to get my exact quotes. Redubbing Grevious in III is a must obviously, and looking back to I, if we really are going to change the Sidious hologram to Maul, then he will need redubbing in I as well.

What will make or break this change will be the revelation to Obi-Wan that Grevious is the Sith from I who killed Qui-Gon. This is where the dubbing becomes essential; we're going to need some good dialogue. I'll try to think something up soon, but in the meantime I think I'll put a rough edit together of how their end battle might go just to show what I have in mind. All of Grevious' dialogue will be muted, and I'll upload it to the Starkiller Ranch YouTube account. (Remember that? Haha)
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Ady, I'm not hijacking the thread and I'm not looking to criticise your edit.

I was talking about some of these things in your thread, but you said you were done, finished, over, so there was no point in discussing this further.

I have never looked at THIS thread before, and saw other people discussing many of the same changes in THIS project, so I decided to voice an opinion and discuss it in regards to another edit.

I'm still interested in hearing what other people think on these subjects, and, in my mind, doing so in your thread would no longer be welcome.
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Getting things back on topic...
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Well, there has been a bit of discussion now abouot Grevious and Maul. Thoughts?

Personally, I'd like to see it if it is possible. But it would take not only what ever effects were possible, but it would have to have a good purpose in the film, fit with the dialogue (especially between Grevious/Maul and Obi-wan and between Grevious/Maul and Sidious) etc.

I've always wanted to see this change, it's one of the big reasons I want to edit the PT. Without it Grevious is just a throw away villain, and not a very good one at that. With it, it not only adds continuity to the never ending villain parade of the prequel trilogy, but makes his final confrontation with Obi-Wan actually matter. I've gone into detail many times in the past about how to accomplish this, but I'll have to do some backtracking to get my exact quotes. Redubbing Grevious in III is a must obviously, and looking back to I, if we really are going to change the Sidious hologram to Maul, then he will need redubbing in I as well.

What will make or break this change will be the revelation to Obi-Wan that Grevious is the Sith from I who killed Qui-Gon. This is where the dubbing becomes essential; we're going to need some good dialogue. I'll try to think something up soon, but in the meantime I think I'll put a rough edit together of how their end battle might go just to show what I have in mind. All of Grevious' dialogue will be muted, and I'll upload it to the Starkiller Ranch YouTube account. (Remember that? Haha)


I know I'm not an official "ranch hand" (and I apologize for chattering about my personal edit earlier), but I have to add my vote to this. Otherwise, Grievous is nothing more than just another robot (in a story sense). If there's a way to put in the deleted scene where he kills Shaak Ti while not losing the picture quality too much, then I think it would be a good idea (just up to the point where they drop through the floor, though -- after that, it's not much better than an animatic). If that was done, she'd have to be removed from the later scene. And I think it was planned to add some of the Padme-related/politicking scenes as well? Or are people against the politics in ROTS as many were against those in TPM? I dunno. I liked some of the politics, especially the Birth of the Rebellion aspects. I've been lurking in this thread for a long time, but I don't remember much, having read through it most recently a few months ago.
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I thought the Shaak Ti scene was pretty meh. It doesn't even make sense for her to be there, and Anakin and Obi-Wan's third base coach-style signals to each other don't jive well with just seeing the death of a comrade. I don't see any advantage to this scene being added. If anything, I want to SHORTEN Anakin and Obi-Wan's time on the Invisible Hand. In the rough III I've been working on, we go from Anakin and Obi-Wan in the hanger, to Grevious on the bridge, to Anakin and Obi-Wan exiting the elevator on the observation deck.

And yes, all the deleted Padme scenes about the Rebellion would be included. I wish Lucas would release ALL the deleted scenes, because it would be great to have that missing Padme/Obi-Wan scene too.
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Originally posted by: Mojo_LA
My only issue with the concept of this thread is that WHY ON EARTH would we want to make the three GOOD movies in the Star Wars saga be a better match for the BAD ones??

Desacrating Star Wars so it has better continuity with the prequels is like pouring salt all over a perfectly prepared meal so it better matches the peanuts you ate at the bar.


My only issue with you being here is... WHAT THE HELL are you doing here anyway? These guys just want to have a complete SW saga that fits together. They don't plan on major changes (such as covering them with salt so they taste like peanuts), just a snip of a line here and there to remove ideas that George forgot to include in his PT. Most editing will take place on the PT.

Why do these things concern you so much? I appreciate your interest in this community and the things that go on here, but you are coming off kind of strong. If you don't agree with a project or don't like what it is trying to accomplish, simply move along and pay no attention to that project. If you think you have constructive criticism that is worth mentioning, or some of your own ideas to suggest, then you are more than welcome to it. Right now you are coming off a lot more destructively than constructively. You shouldn't feel the need to go into every thread and say, "Why in the world to you want to do that?" If you are happy with a movie the way it is but others are not, let them do what they will do to make themselves happy with it.

"You guys realize Star Wars won the OSCAR for editing?"

Of course we know that. And I agree with what you said about editing SW. I think it is about as perfect of a film as there ever has been. That isn't the point of what these guys are trying to do. Sometimes it is much wiser to close our mouths and listen than it is to speak up, or in the case of a forum, to stop typing and read. I suggest reading the first pages of this thread. Maybe then you will see better for yourself where these guys are coming from.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Getting things back on topic...
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Well, there has been a bit of discussion now abouot Grevious and Maul. Thoughts?

Personally, I'd like to see it if it is possible. But it would take not only what ever effects were possible, but it would have to have a good purpose in the film, fit with the dialogue (especially between Grevious/Maul and Obi-wan and between Grevious/Maul and Sidious) etc.

I've always wanted to see this change, it's one of the big reasons I want to edit the PT. Without it Grevious is just a throw away villain, and not a very good one at that. With it, it not only adds continuity to the never ending villain parade of the prequel trilogy, but makes his final confrontation with Obi-Wan actually matter. I've gone into detail many times in the past about how to accomplish this, but I'll have to do some backtracking to get my exact quotes. Redubbing Grevious in III is a must obviously, and looking back to I, if we really are going to change the Sidious hologram to Maul, then he will need redubbing in I as well.

What will make or break this change will be the revelation to Obi-Wan that Grevious is the Sith from I who killed Qui-Gon. This is where the dubbing becomes essential; we're going to need some good dialogue. I'll try to think something up soon, but in the meantime I think I'll put a rough edit together of how their end battle might go just to show what I have in mind. All of Grevious' dialogue will be muted, and I'll upload it to the Starkiller Ranch YouTube account. (Remember that? Haha)


This sounds good, CC. A great place to start.
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You know, he stated it very badly, but Mojo_LA does bring up a good point. I haven't even been able to see Ady's edit yet, so I can't comment, but I wasn't aware that music was added to the Vader/Obi-Wan duel, and I would kind of tend to agree that that scene was deliberately left unscored for a good reason. And this is typical of many 70's films- there was a great deal of attention given to spotting. Because most of the movie had been scored up until that point, music stopped in order to give the scene added weight...and also to heighten the impact when the music reappears as Ben dies. In my mind, that artful use of music is something to aspire to in the prequels.

But I would tend to agree, in general, that the prequels should be molded to fit the OT, not the OT molded to fit the PT. However, Ady's versions I feel would work better with ANY version of the prequels, simply because there will always be a disconnect unless somebody paints out all of the air traffic in the background of the PT, closes up windows, reshoots scenes with actors and puppets, etc. But yeah, from an artistic standpoint, I would tend to think that the duel should be left unscored. I would really have to see the scene in context to know for sure, though. And what I've seen so far of Ady's edit has left me speechless, so there's no reason for me to think that this scene was a major problem. Same thing on the recut Luke/Obi-Wan scene...I just have to see it. It kills me I haven't seen this yet!


Originally posted by: guitarfan01

Well, I might be interested in doing some editing here; I plan to create a "me version" eventually anyway. Something that'll fit in with SOTDS and Adywan's ANH (with maybe one audio edit here).


That would be fantastic! Do you think we could count on you for a half an hour of edited video for ROTS?

CC- I'd love to see your rough edit.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
I would tend to think that the duel should be left unscored. I would really have to see the scene in context to know for sure, though. And what I've seen so far of Ady's edit has left me speechless, so there's no reason for me to think that this scene was a major problem.


I agree with you completely about the duel being left unscored. But I can appreciate what Ady was trying to do, and I think he did what he was trying to do quite well. You really do have to see it to understand what is going on. He sped up the seen and made it a faster fight and he added some of the music from the Anakin - Obi-Wan battle at the end of ROTS. In this way it reflects back to their previous fight with each other. In its faster state being left scoreless wouldn't have the same effect the original version of the scene had. You can't really describe Ady's edit as anything but a blantant SE with some changes just for the sake of changing. What we have now is a more modern version of SW that better matches the PT. And what is wrong with that? As I said before, I was excited about the 1997 SE when it first came out. I really enjoyed them, but I saw them as alternative version and didn't realize they would be replacing the versions I had loved for so long. Ady's edit is an SE we can enjoy, a fun alternative version of the film. Ady's version is not threatening the existence of any of the other versions. We are not being told this is the only one that exists anymore.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I would say that if it can be done well, then Grievous should be Maul. However, if it can't be done really well, then I would be fine with that. In it's own way, it could recall the serial feel with the different villains, and it also works within the context of it being a war, and having different heroes and enemies, etc. But, I don't want to make Grievous be Maul, and then have it done in a way that's kind of half-baked. It should really work, or we should just make the best we can of Grievous through dubbing or what-have-you.

Two-Face - A Batman:The Animated Series Movie