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That writer's guild is out to make enemies.This no new shows nonsense is turning me off more than it is making me appreciate them. If they aren't talented enough to own their own intellectual properties then they are nothing more than factory writers being paid to churn out a product and they really shouldn't have too high a view of themselves. If these geniuses were really interested in progressing the nature of written entertainment, they'd be creating something new and not destroying what they have.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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You sound like a producer. The strike isn't about a few unknown writers who didn't read their contracts before they signed then. This is about EVERY writer in America trying to get what they deserve before digital distribution grows out of its infancy. And it isn't the writers' fault that there won't be any new shows for the time being. This could have been resolved months ago before the writers ever went on strike.

Anyway, I can't wait to see what happens in the new season. Even though we only get 8 episodes now, we should get a 24-episode season after the strike ends.

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I see your point. I don't have anything against collective bargaining myself, and that's why I didn't care about the strike at first. Heck, I don't even watch TV. But, looking at the affects of their strike, I don't see what it's accomplishing. I just see that it's now going to hurt my ability to enjoy Lost and I know which side I'm currently perceiving as whiny. I could easily be wrong in that perception of course, but I don't care too much. Just making a comment.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Zion
You sound like a producer. The strike isn't about a few unknown writers who didn't read their contracts before they signed then. This is about EVERY writer in America trying to get what they deserve before digital distribution grows out of its infancy. And it isn't the writers' fault that there won't be any new shows for the time being. This could have been resolved months ago before the writers ever went on strike.

Anyway, I can't wait to see what happens in the new season. Even though we only get 8 episodes now, we should get a 24-episode season after the strike ends.


The writers have now lost more money due to the strike then they hoped to gain in their new deal. That sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The studios are actually resolving it. They're creating more and more reality TV, where they don't need writers. The ratings might be low, but they're higher then constant repeats. I'm sure the studios would rather take in some money from ads and ratings by putting on crappy reality tv instead of putting on repeats that no one's going to watch anyway.

I'm so sick of the strike that, depending how and when it ends, I probably won't be watching anymore TV period (beyond Discovery, History, TLC, etc).
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You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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They've lost more money being on strike? You don't say! You make it sound like it's OK that the producers and studios are ripping the writers off. I don't like missing my favorite TV shows either, but as a person soon to be working in the film/TV industry, I totally understand why the writers are doing what they're doing. And besides, people can only take so much reality TV and game shows before they're breathing down the studios' neck for new episodes of their favorite shows.

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I dislike WGA simply because they are a union. I don't give a shit if they are getting a raw deal, fuck them. If they don't like what they're getting paid, get a different job.
40,000 million notches away
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Wow. Am I the only person here who understands what a union does and why they are necessary? Let me ask you this. Imagine your favorite fast food chain suddenly doubled all their prices. Would you get pissed at the restaurant, get pissed at the beef distributors nationwide who are causing the price hike, or perhaps you'd just say, "fuck those stupid cows, it's their fault because they taste so good."


Anyway, I can't wait for Lost to come back on January 31st. It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't showing the commercials every 5 minutes on ESPN.

My Projects:
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Originally posted by: Windexed
I dislike WGA simply because they are a union. I don't give a shit if they are getting a raw deal, fuck them. If they don't like what they're getting paid, get a different job.


Agreed.
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Originally posted by: Zion
Wow. Am I the only person here who understands what a union does and why they are necessary?



No, you're not.

I think the fact that the media (as far as I have seen) have ignored the strike to the best of their ability or painted it in a bad light. If you look on the internet, depending on your sources for news, the bias can go either way. I think anyone who looks at both sides of this issue will find themselves sympathetic to the writers to a good degree. Unfortunately for the writers, most people are just pissed that their favorite shows aren't coming back, or are coming back with less than half the originally planned number of episodes and no more in sight, and feel like it is 100% the writers fault since they are striking.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Zion
Wow. Am I the only person here who understands what a union does and why they are necessary? Let me ask you this. Imagine your favorite fast food chain suddenly doubled all their prices. Would you get pissed at the restaurant, get pissed at the beef distributors nationwide who are causing the price hike, or perhaps you'd just say, "fuck those stupid cows, it's their fault because they taste so good."


Anyway, I can't wait for Lost to come back on January 31st. It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't showing the commercials every 5 minutes on ESPN.



That's oversimplifying a more complex situation. Unions were good back in the day (decades ago) because they kept big business in check and levied privatization. However, their usefulness has run its course, and now they are mostly a negative influence on the world of business. Believe me, I have seen and been part of many of them, and they actually, in the long run, end up hurting the people they are supposed to be helping, much less creating collateral damage (in this case, us not getting new shows). Do you really think it's the little Joe Schmoe writer that has instigated the strike? Just my opinion of course, and I have sympathy for the writers who are getting screwed because they are forced to be part of the union.

Back to Lost. I read something where the writers said that the strike shouldn't affect the flow of this season too badly, in that they cooincidentally created something of a cliffhanger for Episode 8 before the strike even began. They said it's kind of a mini finale in and of itself.

40,000 million notches away
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Originally posted by: Windexed
Originally posted by: Zion
Wow. Am I the only person here who understands what a union does and why they are necessary? Let me ask you this. Imagine your favorite fast food chain suddenly doubled all their prices. Would you get pissed at the restaurant, get pissed at the beef distributors nationwide who are causing the price hike, or perhaps you'd just say, "fuck those stupid cows, it's their fault because they taste so good."


Anyway, I can't wait for Lost to come back on January 31st. It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't showing the commercials every 5 minutes on ESPN.



That's oversimplifying a more complex situation. Unions were good back in the day (decades ago) because they kept big business in check and levied privatization. However, their usefulness has run its course, and now they are mostly a negative influence on the world of business. Believe me, I have seen and been part of many of them, and they actually, in the long run, end up hurting the people they are supposed to be helping, much less creating collateral damage (in this case, us not getting new shows). Do you really think it's the little Joe Schmoe writer that has instigated the strike? Just my opinion of course, and I have sympathy for the writers who are getting screwed because they are forced to be part of the union.

Back to Lost. I read something where the writers said that the strike shouldn't affect the flow of this season too badly, in that they cooincidentally created something of a cliffhanger for Episode 8 before the strike even began. They said it's kind of a mini finale in and of itself.

Without unions companies can screw their employees how they want and there won't be a balance. Seems to me the writers aren't getting what they deserve. If actors (and everyone else involved) get a fair percentage why can't the writers get that also?
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Originally posted by: Zion
Wow. Am I the only person here who understands what a union does and why they are necessary? Let me ask you this. Imagine your favorite fast food chain suddenly doubled all their prices. Would you get pissed at the restaurant, get pissed at the beef distributors nationwide who are causing the price hike, or perhaps you'd just say, "fuck those stupid cows, it's their fault because they taste so good."

I would eat somewhere else, just like I'm doing now. The only network tv programs we watch are the news. As much as I miss Heros, 24, and Smallville, they aren't really that important to me.

Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Without unions companies can screw their employees how they want and there won't be a balance. Seems to me the writers aren't getting what they deserve. If actors (and everyone else involved) get a fair percentage why can't the writers get that also?


Unions can, and have, done the same thing. Remember the Grocery workers strike from a few years ago? The only ones that came out better with that deal were the older employees, new employees got screwed.

And what you're forgetting is that if a company does decide to screw its employees however they want, pretty soon word will get out that it's a shitty place to work for. People will quit and go work elsewhere or start up new companies to compete with the existing one. Eventually, the company will go out of business. I've seen this happen first hand and it's not pretty when you're working for the shithole company. Thankfully, I got out and got a different job before they went completely under and then didn't give the "loyal employees" their severance pay. Companies like that just simply don't last long.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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I think I have seen all the trailers, but I must have missed noticing Charlie at the end. Anyway, I think I have read that he will be showing up for guest appearences from time to time via flashbacks. He was a very popular character and left the show on good terms as far as I know, so I am sure we'll be seeing him from time to time.

This season ought to be really interesting with the mix of flashbacks and flashforwards. It is really a shame it had to be broken in two, would have loved to have sixteen weeks to look forward to new episodes during. Also....


*****Potential minor SPOILER below*****













Just put the SPOILER warning incase anyone doesn't know that Michael is returning, though it has been clearing announced that the actor will be returning as a full time cast member, and I think he might have been in one of the trailers.
Really looking forward to the return of Michael, but I am wondering how they are going to Handle Walt. As far as I know he has not been signed on at all, and even if he is, he is a lot older now, not sure how they'll pull it off. It is not like they can bring back Michael back without Walt.



"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I might have said this on a previous page, but my theory for Lost's strangeness involves fate somehow. Like I believe the island exists in an alternate version of earth by utilizing a different history altogether. Hearing that the character's are supposedly dead and at the bottom of the ocean then made sense to me since they might have split off into two versions of themselves by traveling to the island. I thought the same thing when I saw Mr. Eye-patch-man come back to life. Perhaps it's even a thing where anybody could potentially die on the island and come back.

This idea of fate could tie together the show's fixation on free will, birth, life, death, and limitations. I'm hoping the message of the show will involve something along the lines of Locke's faith being the source of his free will. That would be neat.

Wherever they decide to go, I want the end to at least be as cool as what I just described, if not better. If not, I'll be forced to regard this show as a failure. They've backed themselves into too many corners and I don't want them to explain all of that away with simple smoke and mirrors. In fact, if the whispers that Sayid heard in the jungle were simply "the others" hiding in the bushes and if the creepy, silent people of the jungle (which trained the teddy-bear sporting child to be creepy like them) were just "the others" out for a Sunday afternoon stroll, then my respect for this show will have dropped dramatically just from those explanations alone.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I guess you didn't catch the part where the jungle people who were dressed in rags were actually the others trying to fool the survivors into thinking they were something they were not. Perhaps you should go back and watch the last few episodes of season two again. Remember Cindy the flight attendant that the silent, creepy people in the jungle kidnapped? Don't you remember the episode in season 3 where Jack sees her at the others' camp seemingly brainwashed and with several of the tail sections kids with her? Is that not enough evidence to say that those creepy silent people were really the others?

"This idea of fate could tie together the show's fixation on free will, birth, life, death, and limitations. I'm hoping the message of the show will involve something along the lines of Locke's faith being the source of his free will. That would be neat."

Fate is a big part of the show. Since the very beginning the show has thrown in numerous philisophical ideas, which is one of the things I have always liked about it. Anyone who has studied philosophy will be able to see deeper into the show than those who haven't. This does not necessarily mean that they are going to come to some profound philisophical conclusion at the end of the show. If you have listened to any of the podcasts or seen/heard/read any interviews with the makers, it is pretty clear that this kind of thing interests them, it is not that they have the answers themselves, they just like inserting the unanswerable questions in the show.

The writers of the show have admitted to both having read a book called The Third Policeman which they say was one big inspiration for the show. The Third Policeman is a brilliant brilliant book about a man who falls in with a con-man, the two of them plot out a murder, after the man commits the murder, he himself is murdered by him con-man friend, only he doesn't realize that he has been killed and this is not immediately clear to the reader either. After this point the protagonist is witness to all sorts of bizzare things going on around him. By the end of the book we discover that he has been in hell the whole time paying for the murder he had commited.

Now the writers have already said that the island is not hell or purgatory, but the way in which the character in the book is seamlessly transported from real life to hell is a lot like the way the characters on Lost are transitioned from real life to some bizzare island that seemingly does not exist in the real world and where the laws of reality sometimes seem not to apply. Now with the whole find815.com stuff and Naomi saying that there were no survivors of flight 815 and that they were all discovered dead, it is beginning to feel more and more like The Third Policeman.

At anyrate, I really like the show, and as long as the writers remain true to their original intentions for the ending, I am sure I for one will not be disappointed.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Don't forget that Charlie talked to Penny, She's still in the 'real world' right?
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^ Good point!!

Also, lets not forget Desmond's whole 'time travel' episode, or whatever that was....

For me, Lost has been the best show on tv for years...cannot wait for the new season!

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Not the best IMO but it's up there. It bothers me a little how they setup so many plotl ines and resolve so few. They often keep you watching by not revealing certain things rather than presenting an engaging storyline. I'll still tune in every week, though.

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I actually think that is what keeps people watching, and one of the more interesting aspects of the show. In real life you do not get the instant gratification of having answers for every mystery. I think part of what makes the show so great is that we have to remain in the dark as much as the characters whose stories we are following have to remain in the dark. The funny thing is they do give plenty of answers, a lot of times people do not notice them, or they feel they do not come fast enough. If you go back and rewatch old episodes you'll realize how many answers you have been given. There are a few key things that have remained unanswered, and will remain so up until pretty close to the end, if not the very end.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
I guess you didn't catch the part where the jungle people who were dressed in rags were actually the others trying to fool the survivors into thinking they were something they were not. Perhaps you should go back and watch the last few episodes of season two again. Remember Cindy the flight attendant that the silent, creepy people in the jungle kidnapped? Don't you remember the episode in season 3 where Jack sees her at the others' camp seemingly brainwashed and with several of the tail sections kids with her? Is that not enough evidence to say that those creepy silent people were really the others?


Nah, I caught those parts. I just really hope that what was implied during those scenes is not going to be the real explanation for those events. They're so mundane and boring that they don't work with what came before. The others seem so pathetically pedestrian that I don't want to believe that they were the creepy silent people or the sources of the otherworldly whispers. No average pedestrian bum can be that creepy and silent!

I've been hoping since that "rags" episode that there is instead another group of people that are dressed in rags but live on the island is some primitive, violent form. I want to see some real "others" that are intense bad guys and not merely some pathetic leftovers of a corporate-picnic-gone-bad. How else can you train a baby boy, still carrying his teddy bear, to silently walk around a jungle bare footed and creepy unless that boy has somehow become a feral beast like the feral human beings that have captured him?!

Seriously, I just want the show to end well and I can't currently respect those explanations as good. Perhaps I'm simply missing information that the writers haven't revealed yet and I should just be patient enough to see why the logically-inadequate, clumsy, and boringly-pedestrian explanations are actually something I should like, but, until then, the dramatic scenes were too impossibly mystical and paranormal in the way they were portrayed on the screen. My mind can't accept "the others" as a good explanation for those events. Maybe the portrayal was meant to convey what Sayid and Jin were experiencing in their minds, as apposed to something objectively mundane, but there is nothing in the style of the show to make me think that.

Oh well, I suppose, by this point, I'll probably like the show no matter what. The ride has been too fun for the stop to disappoint me too much. Thanks for the other information you posted. I found it interesting and didn't know that stuff about what the authors have been saying.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Oh I suppose I should quickly post what I really think about "the others" and what the authors of the show intended:

Clearly the others were never meant to be such normal people. For instance, the portrayals of Ethan were totally fudged in the most obviously pathetic way possible. I'm supposed to now believe that he was just some technician who was working on pregnancy issues, but before he was a creepy silent dude who only talked when he needed to completely fool people or level creepy, violent threats at people. He was able to easily carry a pregnant woman around the jungle under one arm while dragging an unconscious Charlie around under his other arm. He then proceeded to hang Charlie from a tree and beat the living snot out of Jack while still carrying a pregnant woman around the jungle. Then, to top it all off, he has the killer bolas skills of a feral jungle man in rags. The new version of Ethan was a total fudge on the part of the writers simply because they didn't like their older ideas for some unknown reason. I'm guessing that during the course of writing the show they decided that they wanted "the others" to be something else entirely in light of some, huge, plot change and decided to explain away their previous version of the others as if it were all a trick. Unfortunately their explanations were really lame in comparison to what I saw.

The writers also seem to have started off with a more mystical island, but then decided to take the show down another path and hence we get a stupid explanation for the otherworldly whispers that Sayid heard. I'm almost certain they made their biggest change in this regard between season one and season two. Their cleanup job has been too clumsy. Even the "hatch" was originally portrayed as something very different from what was ultimately revealed. I can't wait to find out how they'll explain away the smoke monsters if I'm correct about all of this semi-retconning.

The part of me that wants to think the show is still perfect wants to believe that the writers are simply trying to trick us with fake explanations for things that are, in actuality, really cool in some way, but I'm definitely having trouble keeping that hope alive as the show "reveals" more. (I put "reveals" in quotes because I don't think they can "reveal" something they didn't have in mind from the start.)

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Hmm, I kind of think the opposite as far as the mysticism goes. All a long it has kind of been showing us supernatural things, then giving us a way to believe they are not supernatural, then throwing out the explaination and pushing us back to believeing they are supernatural. I don't think these things are from indecision on the part of the writers, but rather intentional misdirection. I don't know what is so mundane and pedestrian about the others, they are still pretty creepy and we still know relatively little about them. No we know that they are living in Dharma's old barracks, but they are not Dharma. If you remember when young Ben met Richard Alpert in the woods, Richard was dressed very much like the rag wearing version of the others that we saw early on in season two. Not to mention, he had aged very little over a relatively long period of time. Richard and Ethan both tend to appear in the real world from time to time. I still find both the characters of Richard and Ethan still rather creepy and mysterious. Let's also not forget about Jacob and the look on Richard face when he was told that Ben was taking Locke to see him. Also the Clockwork Orangesque brain washing Alex's boyfriend was undergoing at Ben's orders. The others still are not exactly your average group of doctors.

You mentioned that the others were "merely some pathetic leftovers of a corporate-picnic-gone-bad"??? If you remember correctly, the creepy and mysterious others are what made the corporate picnic go bad and were not actually part of it. They were already there before the corporate picnic began. Yes, a few of the Dharma people joined the others or the hostiles, but that is not to make all the others to be thought of as nothing more than left-overs of a band of silly hippy doctors. I am sure the writers are making some things up as they go, and maybe changing a few of their original intentions in favor of things they find more interesting, but I don't think that is going on quite as much as you seem to think.

I think Lost suffers from being a really good show. It doesn't really know its audience, or more accurately, its audience doesn't really know it. You have plenty of fans whose biggest interest is who Kate is going to hook up with and whether or not they will get rescued, people more in it for the drama. Then you have people who are in it for the sci-fi aspect, and others who are in it for the mystery. The whole concept of the show has been interesting to me once I found out what it really was. I mentioned before being bored while my wife watched through season one, but once we hit season two I became the bigger fan. At first it just seemed like a silly drama with some sci-fi characteristics, but it has really turned out to be much more than that. After I began listening to the podcasts and hearing more of the writers and their ideas I stopped worrying about whether or not they would take the show in the right direction or not. I am now certian there is nothing to worry about. There will be mistakes made along the way (Nikki and Paolo not to mention plenty of other aspects of season three), but I feel pretty certian that the worst of the mistakes are at an end and that the writers wont make the mistake of trying to please everybody again, which is what really brought down parts of season three.

By the end of the series all the people who can't wait for secrets to be revealed and are constantly demanding answers, as well as all the ones who are in it solely for the drama, I think are going to be grossly disappointed with the show, simply because it was never for them in the first place, they just didn't know it.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I watch the show for its mystery and I don't demand answers. All I demand is that the answers are good. I see how you can enjoy the drama the most, but if the world is illogical then I have trouble believing the drama that results from that world. That's why I want some very cool concepts by the end.

I'm not a person who generally enjoys stories that are based on twists. It's fun being fooled, but if there's nothing substantial when all is said and done, the twist is merely a superficial gimmick and I generally have no reason to ever enjoy that story again. Using twists alone is pure sensationalism as far as I'm concerned. If you can enjoy that all by itself then I'm happy for you, but I find that I generally need more than that.


Originally posted by: C3PX
I don't know what is so mundane and pedestrian about the others, they are still pretty creepy and we still know relatively little about them. No we know that they are living in Dharma's old barracks, but they are not Dharma. If you remember when young Ben met Richard Alpert in the woods, Richard was dressed very much like the rag wearing version of the others that we saw early on in season two. Not to mention, he had aged very little over a relatively long period of time. Richard and Ethan both tend to appear in the real world from time to time. I still find both the characters of Richard and Ethan still rather creepy and mysterious. Let's also not forget about Jacob and the look on Richard face when he was told that Ben was taking Locke to see him. Also the Clockwork Orangesque brain washing Alex's boyfriend was undergoing at Ben's orders. The others still are not exactly your average group of doctors.

You mentioned that the others were "merely some pathetic leftovers of a corporate-picnic-gone-bad"??? If you remember correctly, the creepy and mysterious others are what made the corporate picnic go bad and were not actually part of it. They were already there before the corporate picnic began. Yes, a few of the Dharma people joined the others or the hostiles, but that is not to make all the others to be thought of as nothing more than left-overs of a band of silly hippy doctors. I am sure the writers are making some things up as they go, and maybe changing a few of their original intentions in favor of things they find more interesting, but I don't think that is going on quite as much as you seem to think.


Yeah, those people weren't a part of the Dharma initiative, but they're easy to kill, pretty pathetic, and they're led around by the biggest loser of all (Ben). I can't think of them as impressive, intense, and creepy jungle people. :\

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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It's not the twists that keep me going. I find twists gimmicky and pointless most of the time. Really what I find great about the show is all the literary and philisophical references and themes. The "twists" (like the hatch thing) more than being merely a change of idea, really reflects something deeper. We have Jack who doesn't believe in miracles, and suddenly witnesses one through the experience with his wife, whom he decides must have been brought to him through fate, then she leaves him and he realizes once and for all that every thing in life is all chance. On the other hand we have Locke who recovers his ability to walk once crashing on the island and realizes beyond a shadow of doubt that there is some sort of higher power. Once they discover the crazy Scottish guy living in an underground hatch with a computer that saves the world, Jack decides the whole idea of the buttom is rediculous, while Locke whole heartedly believes in the button. Finally Locke sees something that convinces him his faith was misplaced and he decides that he has been wrong all along, but at the very last instant, he discovers that the button is real, and also the cause for the plane crashing, which effectively confirms to him that he was wrong to give up on his faith and that the plane really did crash for a purpose. The twists (i.e. the Pearl proving that the Swam was merely a psychology experiment then the twist of the Pearl actually being the real experiment) that took place were not just for the sake of twisting in a gimmicky way. You can find all sorts of religious and philisophical ideas just within the hatch plotline.

"It's fun being fooled, but if there's nothing substantial when all is said and done, the twist is merely a superficial gimmick and I generally have no reason to ever enjoy that story again. Using twists alone is pure sensationalism as far as I'm concerned."

I couldn't agree with you more on that. My argument is that substantial things are being said in the show all along, even within the twists. Also I have always thought that Lost is a show that could easily be ruined by little more than a few minor wrong turns. I really want it to be one of those few shows that I can watch straight through from beginning to end several years down the road, or to be a show that once it is completely finished I can whole heartedly recommend to a friend who has never seen it before.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape