logo Sign In

Blu-ray Disc or HD-DVD? — Page 10

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: ChainsawAsh
Or the people who get a 2.39:1 movie and get upset that "If I have a widescreen TV, why are there still bars there? There shouldn't be any!" It greatly upsets me.


That got me the first time I tried playing a widescreen movie. I think I spent about an hour on the Internet and reading my TVs manual trying to figure it out. I had no idea that some wide movies had different aspect ratios than others. Now that I know it, it doesn't bother me.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Post link
WHEN I WAS MANAGING A VIDEO STORE I WOULD HAVE CUSTOMERS COMPLAIN THAT WE ONLY CARRIED WIDESCREEN NEW RELEASES. I BUGGED THE HELL OUT OF ME TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE PEOPLE. TYPICALLY, THOSE WERE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO COMPLAINED THAT WE NO LONGER CARRIED MOVIES ON VHS.

"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: dumb_kid
I think this is what MBJ has been getting at. Once HD-DVD is gone, what makes you think the studios are going to use a higher bitrate? They have no incentive to do that. "We'll get better picture quality!" The studios don't care. All they care about is making money. With HD-DVD gone, that'll be one less expense. Why bother with going with a higher bitrate when the picture looks fine as it is?

Actually studios do care when the consumer cares. When DVDs first came out they many were still P&S, or if you were lucky 4x3 letterboxed. Today DVDs are almost all anormorphic widescreen (minues the GOUT of course). Studios are not friends-- they are direct competitors. I'm thrilled that the format war caused many good things... rapid player price drops, dumping of MPEG2, BOGO sales, etc. But just like DVD, when there is a lone HD format, studios will continue to innovate... at least to double dip from early adopters


Let's also not forget that the first DVD releases were all under 4GB because they were pressing on single-layered discs. What happened? Studios started releasing double-layered discs once the cost was efficient enough and there was demand for better quality. Studios started releasing anamorphic widescreen DVDs to satisfy the quality-hungry consumers. But did studios stop there? No, they re-released their most popular titles touting better picture quality and extra features. Anyone remember Super-Bit? The point I'm trying to make here is that just because HD-DVD may be exiting the picture soon, that doesn't mean we're going to be stuck with "crappy" 30GB encodes on Blu-ray forever.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the quality of an encode is all about the bit rate - not the amount of space on the disc. There's a huge quality difference between a 90-minute movie that takes up 36GB and a 120-minute movie that takes up 36GB. The maximum transfer rate on an HD DVD is 36.55 Mb/s (mega-bits per second) vs. 53.95 on Blu-ray. (DVD is 11.08 Mb/s.) The maximum bit rate for video is limited to 29.4 Mb/s on HD DVD. Blu-ray is capable of 40 Mb/s.

I don't believe for a second that studios won't eventually take advantage of the full capability of Blu-ray. They'll do it because it's been proven that consumers are willing to pay for better quality, and because of competition.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author
Time
Post link
Or the people who get a 2.39:1 movie and get upset that "If I have a widescreen TV, why are there still bars there? There shouldn't be any!" It greatly upsets me.
LOL...yeah, I hate explaining that one.

Anyone remember Super-Bit?

"Remember" is a good word to use, because they thought dropping extras, which requires more space, for a better encoded movie, which requires more bitrate, would sell better.

It worked for awhile, but then people wanted the extras anyways, and so Superbit started releasing two-disc sets: movie, and extras. After a while, Superbit stopped.

For all the talk of BR discs that exceed 30Gbs, I'd love to see a comparison of the space taken up by the actual film itself, to see if a movie from a 30+Gbs release actually uses a better encode/bitrate, or if the extra space is simply being taken up by extra features.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Hmm, I'd never heard of those before so, thanks to you guys bringing it up, I did a little Wikipedia research. Interesting. Honestly, I wouldn't want to give up special features for higher bitrate. Static menus I could deal with, though. But the Superbit Deluxe seemed perfect with the two-disc sets. Oh, well. Not a big deal. Gone the way of the dodo.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Here's an excellent discussion on bitrates and such. The last post is very interesting in regards to how "ready" HD-DVD was spec-wise, as compared to BR being rushed out the door.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
I personally miss Superbit. Sometimes, it was the only way to get a DTS track on a movie you liked.

I'm actually suffering extras burnout in my old age. Half of what passes as "extras" these days wouldn't be included on a Criterion Laserdisc!

Can't wait for the ads touting "over six months of bonus features!" on Blu-Ray.

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
Post link
Wow. Superbit must have been bigger than I thought. Then again, though, this is a forum filled with videophiles, so it's not exactly an accurate crossection of the general public. ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Zion
I don't believe for a second that studios won't eventually take advantage of the full capability of Blu-ray. They'll do it because it's been proven that consumers are willing to pay for better quality, and because of competition.


And it'll give them a reason to double-dip
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Post link
Don't know if this was posted yet or not,but here is more good news to all the damn Bluray haters\hd dvd fanboys:

Paramount drops HDDVD. End of format war?

Paramount studios is poised to drop its support of the high-definition DVD (HD DVD) format after Warner Bros studio said it would back the competing Blu-ray format, the Financial Times reported on Tuesday.The loss of support from Paramount, which is owned by Viacom Inc, would likely deal the final blow to the HD DVD format backed by Toshiba Corp and put an end to the format war, the newspaper said on its Web site. Time Warner Inc’s Warner Bros studio on Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp’s Blu-ray format, marking a major setback to the HD DVD camp.

Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD by nearly two-to-one in the United States last year, but HD DVD had secured major allies in August when Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc said they would go exclusively with HD DVD. But Paramount is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to change sides if Warner Bros backed Blu-ray, the Financial Times said, citing people familiar with the situation. However, Paramount spokeswoman denied this news as speculative with “Paramount’s current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format”.

Source: Forbes, FT, Bloomberg

speculative or not,money talks,we will see what happens.
Author
Time
Post link
For all the talk of BR discs that exceed 30Gbs, I'd love to see a comparison of the space taken up by the actual film itself, to see if a movie from a 30+Gbs release actually uses a better encode/bitrate, or if the extra space is simply being taken up by extra features.

The examples that I stated earlier were the movie-only file size.. the extras were not included.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
THOSE WERE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO COMPLAINED THAT WE NO LONGER CARRIED MOVIES ON VHS.


I was pretty pissed when rental places started getting rid of their massive VHS collections. I used to love to go into Hastings and search through the vast amounts of old movies on VHS that only cost $0.99 to rent. Seemed there was hardly a movie they did not have, since everyone has gone all out DVD there are a lot of movies that are impossible to find, most rental stores don't carry older and more obscure films even if they are on DVD, and even if you get lucky enough to find it on DVD it is going to cost you more than a buck to rent it. The days of renting old and obscure films for a buck have ended. Hell, the days of renting any movie for a buck aren't looking so good, I know of a few places but they not only suffer from a crappy selection, but their discs are so scratched up you're lucky if you get to watch the whole thing from beginning to end without having to skip a large section due to a scratch.

So yes, I am one of those who complained about the death of the VHS. Those of us who are suckers for boring old movies are left with little else to turn to than our DVRs, and the late night TV listings.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: C3PX
I was pretty pissed when rental places started getting rid of their massive VHS collections. I used to love to go into Hastings and search through the vast amounts of old movies on VHS that only cost $0.99 to rent. Seemed there was hardly a movie they did not have, since everyone has gone all out DVD there are a lot of movies that are impossible to find, most rental stores don't carry older and more obscure films even if they are on DVD, and even if you get lucky enough to find it on DVD it is going to cost you more than a buck to rent it. The days of renting old and obscure films for a buck have ended. Hell, the days of renting any movie for a buck aren't looking so good, I know of a few places but they not only suffer from a crappy selection, but their discs are so scratched up you're lucky if you get to watch the whole thing from beginning to end without having to skip a large section due to a scratch.

So yes, I am one of those who complained about the death of the VHS. Those of us who are suckers for boring old movies are left with little else to turn to than our DVRs, and the late night TV listings.


Doesn't Netflix have a pretty sizeable library? And if you rented the maximum number of DVDs per month, I'm sure the cost would be under a dollar per movie. I don't know if they have any of the old classics, but I've always heard that if you can't find it elsewhere, Netflix probably has it.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Post link
Yeesh, I never thought it was going to happen so quickly (assuming it does). Just like the spread of communism, it's a domino effect. ^_~ I wonder what the HD-DVD commitee is thinking right now...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
Post link
The 30GB limit of HD-DVD doesn't just affect the video quality. Rather than count the number of Blu-ray titles that have video encodes that go over 30GB, let's count how many have lossless PCM soundtracks and compare that to the number of HD-DVDs with PCM.

Video quality comparisons between HD-DVD and Blu-ray are usually bullshit because films released on both formats tend to have the same encoding (capped at 30GB), so the image quality is identical.

Blu-ray is the technically superior format and its potential will be realized, just as DVD's potential was realized after a few years.

There has been no firm announcement from Universal regarding their plans. Paramount issued a weak "we will continue to support" statement. MS has said nothing. The format war is over.
Forum Administrator

MTFBWY…A

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: lordjedi


Doesn't Netflix have a pretty sizeable library? And if you rented the maximum number of DVDs per month, I'm sure the cost would be under a dollar per movie. I don't know if they have any of the old classics, but I've always heard that if you can't find it elsewhere, Netflix probably has it.


I'd never dream to rent the maximum amount of movies per month from Netflix, the very idea of sitting in front of the glowing box that many hours a month gives me shivers. And Netflix is actually quite lacking in older and less popular titles, not to mention the vast number of films condemned to die with VHS.


As for Blu-ray's larger capacity, I am surprised we are even debating the usefullness of more space. Am I the only one who remembers when 3.5 floppys seemed more than suffciently large? How about the CD-R with its 650mb? I remember when I got my first CD burner thinking how great it was to have a means of storage that was nearly impossible to run out of space on. In those days my hd was only 4gb. When I first bought that computer and for the first few years I had it, I felt pretty sure I would never be able to max out such a massive hd as my 4gb. Now when I back up my computer I have to use at least two DVD-Rs to get everything, sometimes more. Times have changed, and they will continue to change. DVD use to be considered the ultimate media format with the ultimate picture and sound quality, giving you the ultimate cinema like viewing experience...

Not only will the BRs extra space be useful, it will inevitably sometime in the near future be completely inadaquate. The idea that they wont be filling the things to the top just a short time after HD-DVD is gone is laughable.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time
Post link
I am surprised we are even debating the usefullness of more space.

I'm not saying more space is bad, I'm just questioning how well it's being used. Many HD-DVD titles had better extras because they had mandatory interactivity in the specs, whereas Blu-Ray is still trying to get Java to work.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
I really couldn't care less on who wins. I consider HD to be over priced shit that most of us can't afford. I can't even tell the difference between HD and Regular D. Kind of a spunk flavored lolipop.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: sean wookie
I really couldn't care less on who wins. I consider HD to be over priced shit that most of us can't afford. I can't even tell the difference between HD and Regular D. Kind of a spunk flavored lolipop.


Most of us being the 18 year olds with barely over minimum wage jobs? You're not in the majority sean. Almost any technology isn't meant to be affordable to anyone under the age of 25. That's the approximate age that most people start their careers at and start earning a decent living. The average schmoe making $10-$15 per hour is of course going find HD expensive. Anyone that has an actual career making a bit more money ($20-$40 per hour) will find HD well within their budget though.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
Post link
Well, I could afford HD if I wanted it, but I'm not biting yet.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
hmmmm, you know, the whole "whether or not you'll even notice the difference" question is an interesting one. Honestly, once I found out how NTSC actually works I suddenly had a huge reason to stop buying standard dvd's now that there are hi-def formats. Of course, this didn't stop me from picking up stuff I hadn't seen before just as long as it was a pretty low bargain bin price, by which I mean it costs just about as much to buy it brand new as it would to rent it. There was even a crazy sale back in September where I picked up The Doors (remastered!), Bound, Pi and Glengarry Glen Ross for just 3 dollars a pop. Even with just one hi-def format sticking around, it's good for standard dvd prices.

The resolution isn't really what does it for me, and after all you really do need a 1080p tv to see the difference. How do I know? Well, I'll get to that in a moment.

I remember watching the blu-ray of Pirates 2 and the only difference it made was that I could sit a ways from the 50" 1080i DLP and not have to squint. Then, over thanksgiving, I saw some blu-ray movies on a huge 1080p projector and let me just say it was akin to 2k digital cinema as far as I'm concerned.

Which brings me back to the question of how good standard dvd's look. I don't even have an hdtv, but the computer has pretty good specs and the 1024x768 monitor is hooked up via DVI which means not only can it display anamorphic discs at their full resolution, it can make them look pretty damn good too. I read a thread recently (not on this website) where a guy was saying he can't stand watching standard dvd's now that he has an hdtv. Unless this guy is some kind of super, uber videophile, I'm really questioning what his hardware specs are. Standard dvd's look amazing on my friend's 60" sony lcd (being played on a bose dvd player with 5.1 in case you were wondering). Heck, even on my other friend's zenith lcd over coaxial they look frickin' amazing!

To be totally honest, I miss not knowing about how 24p sources have to be slowed down to 23.976 in order to be telecined to ntsc. A large part of me has simply gotten used to everything that's available on dvd and how good it can look and sound, not to mention the fact that while not every single person has a dvd player, a whole helluva lot less have hi-def optical disc players. Even if the new formats produce an experience that's closer to watching an actual print, when I look at the screencaps on dvdbeaver it just seems "off" to me, like I'm looking at a really hi rez digital file. I dunno, maybe it's just not a good representation of how the blu-ray/hddvd actually looks under optimal conditions and/or they're just not capturing still frames in the best possible way. Their reviews for the new blade runner set kinda illustrates what I'm trying to say. The screencaps from the hi-def have really blown out contrast while the ones from the standard dvd pretty much perfectly resemble what I remember seeing in the theater. Again, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to hardware limitations.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: sean wookie
I really couldn't care less on who wins. I consider HD to be over priced shit that most of us can't afford. I can't even tell the difference between HD and Regular D. Kind of a spunk flavored lolipop.


My original reason for supporting Blu-ray was because of animation. Accurately displaying lines in as crisp a fashion as possible requires low compression rates. If all of the bit-rate and space can be used to the fullest on Blu-ray, I'm sure there would be a noticeable difference between an anime transferred to Blu-ray in comparison to HD-DVD. Unfortunately I don't know if that kind of utilization of BDs will ever come along. At the very least, Blu-ray can offer better performance in terms of multiple language tracks for a piece of animation. I'm glad it now looks as if it's going to be the winner.

Either way, the movie I most look forward to getting on Blu-ray (when I get a player and an HDTV) will be Wings of Honneamise. I own the English dub on VHS already would love to watch the film at a quality that is closer to what I would see in a full-fledged theater.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005