Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Okay, you English is really falling apart on his in the last sentence, just thought I'd mention it. No, that does not make a movie, never said it did. But it undeniably sets the feel of a movie. I feel like I could visit Theed. I feel like I could walk through the jungles of Naboo, just like it has always felt that I could walk though the forests of Endor, or the snows of Hoth. There are really no locations in either of the other two films that feel tangible. Oddball and the clone pilots were so painfully CG, as were many of the other CG characters. This is why I said that TPM felt more real and organic than the others. Never said it was a good movie because it used puppets and real locations. I simply said those contributed to it feeling more real than the others. If you ask me what Kashyyk looks like, I would say blurry and green. Because that is all I ever got out. Feels like a scene out of a 100% CG film, not even any of the characters are real in those scenes. If it had been real, the whole wookie battle probably would have been pretty cool. Imagine the ewok battle, but with wookies.
Well, as far as sheer artistry goes, there is no surpassing the Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan battle. That was a beautifully coreographed scene. However, it is incorrect to connect this saber battle to any in the OT. The saber battles in the OT weren't nearly that artistic, especially the very first one.
Look - my argument isn't based upon how I would have written the prequels. As Episode II was written, Anakin clashing with Obi-Wan was a relevant plot point and I think Episode II fulfilled its basic objectives adequately.
Man, if the criteria for a movie being decent were that it fullfills it objectives that it set out to make, then we would have a lot less crappy movies. I am sure the makers of Mano the Hands of Fate felt that their film went out to achieve they wanted it to from a story telling standpoint. Anakin's clashing with Obi-Wan could have been done a million other ways, but the way that it was done is a joke and painful to watch. Hence, it deserve flak.
Okay... good comeback... uh... never mind.
Well, to pose a question you posed earlier, So what? Sets and puppets do not a movie make - just as CGI does not a movie make.
Man, if the criteria for a movie being decent were that it fullfills it objectives that it set out to make, then we would have a lot less crappy movies. I am sure the makers of Mano the Hands of Fate felt that their film went out to achieve they wanted it to from a story telling standpoint. Anakin's clashing with Obi-Wan could have been done a million other ways, but the way that it was done is a joke and painful to watch. Hence, it deserve flak.
Not true. The opening dialogue between he and Obi-Wan establishes that Anakin has saved Obi-Wan at least once before. Later, Anakin foils the second assassination attempt, rescues Obi-Wan in the skies or Coruscant, then dives out of his speeder onto the assassin's.
So just because he saves Obi-Wan's life, doesn't mean he wasn't rebellious, whiney teenager. I have known teens who have claimed to hate their parents and wish they were dead, only for their parents to end up actually dying some accident, and guess what? The kid usually has a pretty hard time coping with this. So you are saying that if Anakin were truely a rebellious teenager, he would simply not have bothered to save Obi-Wan's life?
This sounds suspiciously like circular reasoning.
So just because he saves Obi-Wan's life, doesn't mean he wasn't rebellious, whiney teenager. I have known teens who have claimed to hate their parents and wish they were dead, only for their parents to end up actually dying some accident, and guess what? The kid usually has a pretty hard time coping with this. So you are saying that if Anakin were truely a rebellious teenager, he would simply not have bothered to save Obi-Wan's life?
This sounds suspiciously like circular reasoning.
Okay... good comeback... uh... never mind.
Well, to pose a question you posed earlier, So what? Sets and puppets do not a movie make - just as CGI does not a movie make.
Okay, you English is really falling apart on his in the last sentence, just thought I'd mention it. No, that does not make a movie, never said it did. But it undeniably sets the feel of a movie. I feel like I could visit Theed. I feel like I could walk through the jungles of Naboo, just like it has always felt that I could walk though the forests of Endor, or the snows of Hoth. There are really no locations in either of the other two films that feel tangible. Oddball and the clone pilots were so painfully CG, as were many of the other CG characters. This is why I said that TPM felt more real and organic than the others. Never said it was a good movie because it used puppets and real locations. I simply said those contributed to it feeling more real than the others. If you ask me what Kashyyk looks like, I would say blurry and green. Because that is all I ever got out. Feels like a scene out of a 100% CG film, not even any of the characters are real in those scenes. If it had been real, the whole wookie battle probably would have been pretty cool. Imagine the ewok battle, but with wookies.
Well, as far as sheer artistry goes, there is no surpassing the Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan battle. That was a beautifully coreographed scene. However, it is incorrect to connect this saber battle to any in the OT. The saber battles in the OT weren't nearly that artistic, especially the very first one.
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize it was incorrect to connect it to the OT. I should have asked you first if it was correct or not.
What I meant by that had nothign to do with sheer artistry, what I mean by that was that it was the only lightsaber battle in the PT, that was fun to watch like the OT. It was the only lightsaber battle in the PT, that had you on the edge of your seat, like the lightsaber battles of the OT. But this too is probably incorrect, or circular, or spherical or something.
Anyway, you asked why does it deserve so much flak, I gave you plenty of answers by now. I thought you seriously wanted to have someone point out to you why it gets so much flak, not to get into an endless debate on why it is treated unfairly, and who is and isn't giving suspiciously circular reasoning. In all honesty I don't think you can say the PT is treated unfairly by any means at all, it is a series of crappy movies that are successful simply because they bear the same name as a series of really good movies that were made a long time ago. They really didn't deserve the success they got. If it hadn't been for the name Star Wars, it is not likely it would have done too well. You can say they may have done well on their own, and they may have, but you simply can't ignore the 20 years worth of Star Wars fans who rushed to theaters with their kids to see each one of these that would not have done so had it been something completely different.