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"Lucas can't find home for Star Wars spin-off" — Page 6

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I am with ya guys on the greatness of ESB, but as I said, ESB & ROTJ are essentially one movie to me, and SW'77 can viewed as its on entity that has zero to do with anything after 1977.

I have never been one to complain about the updated effects of the OT, that stuff I can live with, but I just can't take the scene changes, as they are much too jarring. After the OOT DVD debacle last September, it has become real hard for me to enjoy the OT even by itself anymore. You can watch grainy, crappy OOT DVD's without all the changes, or pristine SE DVD's with all the changes, including that creepy Hayden lurking in ROTJ that ruins the whole movie.

I am just saying I really can't enjoy ROTJ SE at all, and the way I have always watched the OT movies, is that it is the final chapter of a great trilogy, and even though ROTJ is far inferior then the previous installments, ESB can't standalone like SW'77, or even just be a 1-2 punch that a Terminator 1 & 2 can do while forgetting the horrendous Part 3.

Until or if Lucas ever remasters the OOT so I can enjoy the movies again, the OT will never be the same for me, and I am being 100% honest, as I will still pop ESB, and ROTJ every once in a while, but they are tainted, and the moment Jedi Rocks comes on the screen, or that ridiculous ending in ROTJ with Jar Jar Binks in it, I won't be able to sit back and enjoy the movies the way I did for 20 years. Sorry to be a downer here, but just given you my opinion.
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If it was just Star Wars '77 we'd still have the Holiday Special

I know what you're saying CO but if we're talking hypotheticals here, even if it was just SW '77 that's no guarantee Lucas wouldn't have released a SE for the 20th, 25th or 30th anniversary and that SE could be the only version available to us today. Lucas would probably be just as equally unhappy with SW '77 being in his eyes incomplete as he is today. It's very possible he would be more fixated on trying to fix his little science fiction fantasy from the 70's without the other movies to focus on. And he would still be a very rich man.

Beside reading these boards I have very little discussion in my day to day life about Star Wars. I don't watch the PT, my only reminder of them is what is discussed here and the occasional talk about them with friends, so I can quite easily forget about the PT if I choose to do so. I don't know if I'd want to give up ESB and ROTJ to wish away the PT and SE.

But it would be a nice feeling though.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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I have to agree with JediRandy for once- if you don't like the prequels (which I don't), don't watch them. I mean, giving up two of my all-time favorite movies (ESB and ROTJ) is something I could never do. ESB has for many years been my favorite SW film. As I get older, I appreciate SW more, but I still adore ESB, and ROTJ is sort of like the conclusion of ESB.

Believe me, I understand the whole thing about the PT sullying the Star Wars name, but honestly I don't really think about that too much. As long as I have the OOT to watch, I don't give a crap about the PT. My biggest concern as a SW fan now (like most everyone here) is the OOT on HD-DVD or Blu-ray.

.....and it's probably true that even if SW '77 were the only SW film, GL would still have screwed around with it.

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Originally posted by: JediRandy


Really? You'd give up ESB to make the PT go away? That's insane... don't watch the PT and presto! It goes away...

I'm blown away by that comment.



Yeah, and I am blown away by how you managed to completely miss the point of my post. I didn't say that based on a deep seated hate of the PT, I said it in the context that I would have liked to see what else George could have come up with if he had merely made a successful sci-fi film and moved on rather than dwelling on it for the rest of his life. I am a fan of Lucas' early work, I would have liked for it to continue.

I also said that it would be nice to be able to say, "I like Star Wars" and not have to explain what parts of it I like. Another thing "don't watch the PT and presto!" wouldn't quite work for. Trust me, I don't watch the PT, and it still ain't goin' anywhere.


"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Personally, I now feel that the monumental power of Star Wars has been so diluted by the sequelising, prequelising and franchising of that film that I would actually prefer that none of the sequels didn't exist. Yes, I would prefer it if Empire Strikes Back, one of my favourite movies of all time, was never made, because that is how much has been lost and how much more Star Wars originally had going for it. The strange part is that I never felt that way in say, 1997. But now its just become too much. We had a modern Wizard of Oz and it became all the bad parts of Star Trek.
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Originally posted by: Mielr
I have to agree with JediRandy for once- if you don't like the prequels (which I don't), don't watch them.

Damn, one idiot misunderstanding my post knocked this whole conversation in a dumb direction. (And just to clairify and avoid offending anyone, the idiot was not you Mielr, but his name is mentioned in the above quote.)

and unrelated to my above comment, for all you saying you wouldn't give up EBS, I have long proclaimed ESB as my favorite SW film, it is brilliant in most regards. But the older I get the more I think he went in the wrong direction with the "I am your father thing", but that on its own is not enough to hurt the film. What really hurts ESB is ROTJ, which is a pretty silly piece of work in comparison to its two older brothers. SW and ESB are great classic sci-fi, but ROTJ, while it has some brilliant parts, to me it is sullied by all the crap you have to sift through to get to those great parts. And ESB is hurt by having no conclusion save from ROTJ, but SW is not effected at all by either of them (unless you count the addition of the "Episode IV: A New Hope" subtitle).


.....and it's probably true that even if SW '77 were the only SW film, GL would still have screwed around with it.


Maybe, he does tend to screw with most of his films, even the relatively unpopular ones. He screwed with THX 1138 and he added a CG sunset to American Graffiti. He was pretty quick to add the "A New Hope" subtitle to Star Wars and the "Indiana Jones and the ..." to a film that was once just called "Raiders of the Lost Ark". But would the screwing with have been as bad? He would have had to come up with an entirely new character for Jabba, as the slug like version from ROTJ would have never existed. And what is to say Star Wars would have remained in demand enough to warrant a theatrical re release worthy of all the time and effort put into the SE? Even if he did put Jabba in the film in some form or another, I don't think it would have been as big of a deal, because that was a real deleted scene from the movie. A pretty cool, but redundant one though. Even if the CG Jabba would have been as it is now, it wouldn't have been a big deal because it would be the only Jabba we would ever know. But in all honesty, I am not so sure Lucas would have choosen to put it back in had the character not been established in ROTJ. At any rate, I don't think the PT changes would have been as annoying in this alternative reality. You never know really. Perhaps the only reason he made "improvements" to THX and Graffiti was because he had already begun the habbit with the SW trilogy. Maybe if the SE wouldn't have happened, THX director's cut or Graffiti's Sunset would not have happened.

But again, this was not the point of my "wishing the SW sequels had never happened", my point was that I would have liked to have seen what else ol' George had in him, rather than seeing him become an object of lust for Rick McCallum and an object or worship for a fanbase of rabid SW fans.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I love how yet another non-movie related thread has taken a turn for the movies. I'm not being sarcastic, btw. I really do love that we're discussing this and not the new tv show, because the more we discuss the movies the more likely it is that we'll finally get around to making a new petition.
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A new petition isn't going to do anyone any good. What, you think if we revise the old one with the words "High Def." or anamorphic" added then he'll realize that we meant we wanted something in watchable quality and fix his mistake? And what is unmovie related about a thread in the 'General Star Wars Discussion' (Star Wars being the title of a movie) and about a Television spin off of Star Wars (a movie) which is becoming the new distraction from Lucas making his 'artsy films that nobody will like' that he has been talking about for so long, which is what we were currently discussing. It is very related. And I don't think there is any new news about the spin-off that we have not yet discussed.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Well, one day DVD will no longer be the stadard of home video, so saying "we want the OOT" will be equivalent to saying we want it in HD (or post-HD, whatever format that will take up the DVD crown).
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Originally posted by: C3PX
And just to clairify and avoid offending anyone, the idiot was not you Mielr

Well, I should hope not!

I still wouldn't give up ESB and ROTJ, though.

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Originally posted by: C3PX
A new petition isn't going to do anyone any good. What, you think if we revise the old one with the words "High Def." or anamorphic" added then he'll realize that we meant we wanted something in watchable quality and fix his mistake? And what is unmovie related about a thread in the 'General Star Wars Discussion' (Star Wars being the title of a movie) and about a Television spin off of Star Wars (a movie) which is becoming the new distraction from Lucas making his 'artsy films that nobody will like' that he has been talking about for so long, which is what we were currently discussing. It is very related. And I don't think there is any new news about the spin-off that we have not yet discussed.


You do have a good point, and something I didn't remind myself of until after submitting my reply is that Lucas releasing a remastered OOT while simultaneously prohibiting anything but the SE in theaters wouldn't make much if any sense.

In regards to the non-movie related thing, I meant the Star Wars movies and not movies in general, and I was also just saying that we started out talking about the new tv show only to spend the last dozen posts talking about how we want the OOT remastered. I also said that this is not a bad thing.
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Originally posted by: C3PX
Originally posted by: Mielr
I have to agree with JediRandy for once- if you don't like the prequels (which I don't), don't watch them.

Damn, one idiot misunderstanding my post knocked this whole conversation in a dumb direction. (And just to clairify and avoid offending anyone, the idiot was not you Mielr, but his name is mentioned in the above quote.)

and unrelated to my above comment, for all you saying you wouldn't give up EBS, I have long proclaimed ESB as my favorite SW film, it is brilliant in most regards. But the older I get the more I think he went in the wrong direction with the "I am your father thing", but that on its own is not enough to hurt the film. What really hurts ESB is ROTJ, which is a pretty silly piece of work in comparison to its two older brothers. SW and ESB are great classic sci-fi, but ROTJ, while it has some brilliant parts, to me it is sullied by all the crap you have to sift through to get to those great parts. And ESB is hurt by having no conclusion save from ROTJ, but SW is not effected at all by either of them (unless you count the addition of the "Episode IV: A New Hope" subtitle).


.....and it's probably true that even if SW '77 were the only SW film, GL would still have screwed around with it.


Maybe, he does tend to screw with most of his films, even the relatively unpopular ones. He screwed with THX 1138 and he added a CG sunset to American Graffiti. He was pretty quick to add the "A New Hope" subtitle to Star Wars and the "Indiana Jones and the ..." to a film that was once just called "Raiders of the Lost Ark". But would the screwing with have been as bad? He would have had to come up with an entirely new character for Jabba, as the slug like version from ROTJ would have never existed. And what is to say Star Wars would have remained in demand enough to warrant a theatrical re release worthy of all the time and effort put into the SE? Even if he did put Jabba in the film in some form or another, I don't think it would have been as big of a deal, because that was a real deleted scene from the movie. A pretty cool, but redundant one though. Even if the CG Jabba would have been as it is now, it wouldn't have been a big deal because it would be the only Jabba we would ever know. But in all honesty, I am not so sure Lucas would have choosen to put it back in had the character not been established in ROTJ. At any rate, I don't think the PT changes would have been as annoying in this alternative reality. You never know really. Perhaps the only reason he made "improvements" to THX and Graffiti was because he had already begun the habbit with the SW trilogy. Maybe if the SE wouldn't have happened, THX director's cut or Graffiti's Sunset would not have happened.

But again, this was not the point of my "wishing the SW sequels had never happened", my point was that I would have liked to have seen what else ol' George had in him, rather than seeing him become an object of lust for Rick McCallum and an object or worship for a fanbase of rabid SW fans.


And I'm blown away by your inability to be civil for 2 seconds.

"As much as I love Empire Strikes Back, I could have lived without it."

The only thing more idiotic than that statement is one that ends in "...anyway, I Love Jar Jar Binks!".

"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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I am blown away by how you still haven't managed to understand what I was saying. Anyway, there is nothing idiotic about my statement, especially the part you quoted. At least others are able to relate to the feelings of Francis Ford Coppola and myself.

It is funny how my statement about wishing to see what great things Lucas could have done if SW had not gotten in his way was one of the most Lucas sympathetic posts I have ever posted, and the Lucas gusher still manages to take the opposite stance just for the sake of arguing.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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All right you two, don't make me turn this car around!
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Originally posted by: JediRandy


I Love Jar Jar Binks!".



So you're the one! I remember Ahmad Best saying he would like to thank that SW fan, instead of all SW fans for his work in the PT!

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Originally posted by: JediRandy
Originally posted by: C3PX
Originally posted by: Mielr
I have to agree with JediRandy for once- if you don't like the prequels (which I don't), don't watch them.

Damn, one idiot misunderstanding my post knocked this whole conversation in a dumb direction. (And just to clairify and avoid offending anyone, the idiot was not you Mielr, but his name is mentioned in the above quote.)

and unrelated to my above comment, for all you saying you wouldn't give up EBS, I have long proclaimed ESB as my favorite SW film, it is brilliant in most regards. But the older I get the more I think he went in the wrong direction with the "I am your father thing", but that on its own is not enough to hurt the film. What really hurts ESB is ROTJ, which is a pretty silly piece of work in comparison to its two older brothers. SW and ESB are great classic sci-fi, but ROTJ, while it has some brilliant parts, to me it is sullied by all the crap you have to sift through to get to those great parts. And ESB is hurt by having no conclusion save from ROTJ, but SW is not effected at all by either of them (unless you count the addition of the "Episode IV: A New Hope" subtitle).


.....and it's probably true that even if SW '77 were the only SW film, GL would still have screwed around with it.


Maybe, he does tend to screw with most of his films, even the relatively unpopular ones. He screwed with THX 1138 and he added a CG sunset to American Graffiti. He was pretty quick to add the "A New Hope" subtitle to Star Wars and the "Indiana Jones and the ..." to a film that was once just called "Raiders of the Lost Ark". But would the screwing with have been as bad? He would have had to come up with an entirely new character for Jabba, as the slug like version from ROTJ would have never existed. And what is to say Star Wars would have remained in demand enough to warrant a theatrical re release worthy of all the time and effort put into the SE? Even if he did put Jabba in the film in some form or another, I don't think it would have been as big of a deal, because that was a real deleted scene from the movie. A pretty cool, but redundant one though. Even if the CG Jabba would have been as it is now, it wouldn't have been a big deal because it would be the only Jabba we would ever know. But in all honesty, I am not so sure Lucas would have choosen to put it back in had the character not been established in ROTJ. At any rate, I don't think the PT changes would have been as annoying in this alternative reality. You never know really. Perhaps the only reason he made "improvements" to THX and Graffiti was because he had already begun the habbit with the SW trilogy. Maybe if the SE wouldn't have happened, THX director's cut or Graffiti's Sunset would not have happened.

But again, this was not the point of my "wishing the SW sequels had never happened", my point was that I would have liked to have seen what else ol' George had in him, rather than seeing him become an object of lust for Rick McCallum and an object or worship for a fanbase of rabid SW fans.


And I'm blown away by your inability to be civil for 2 seconds.

"As much as I love Empire Strikes Back, I could have lived without it."

The only thing more idiotic than that statement is one that ends in "...anyway, I Love Jar Jar Binks!".


So you'd give up ESB to see what else GL could come up with... that's still insane, but whatever. Call me an idiot and then accuse me of starting an arguement.

And how'd you know I'm a "gusher"?

"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Originally posted by: JediRandy


And how'd you know I'm a "gusher"?



It shows. In our past signitures as well as your current one, and in a good deal of your posts.


Why is the concept of giving up something good for something better such a shocking/insane/idiotic one? The guy made some great movies, then nothing but Star Wars. He had a lot of great potential. Too bad it was never fully tapped into. I would have liked to see what this up and coming young director could have done as he matured, but instead of Star Wars remaining just one of many impressive films he had done, it became a creative constipation.


If that is so insane, then show me to my rubber room because I'm as mad as a hatter.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
Originally posted by: JediRandy


And how'd you know I'm a "gusher"?



It shows. In our past signitures as well as your current one, and in a good deal of your posts.


Why is the concept of giving up something good for something better such a shocking/insane/idiotic one? The guy made some great movies, then nothing but Star Wars. He had a lot of great potential. Too bad it was never fully tapped into. I would have liked to see what this up and coming young director could have done as he matured, but instead of Star Wars remaining just one of many impressive films he had done, it became a creative constipation.


If that is so insane, then show me to my rubber room because I'm as mad as a hatter.


So ESB is "good"? Not great, not the best SW film... just "good". Anyway isn't ESB the one with the least GL interference? At least that's what is always thrown around SW message boards.

"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Poor Randy, still having issues with people not loving every single aspect of the SW films, or their creator, for that matter.

And I love this part:
And I'm blown away by your inability to be civil for 2 seconds.

"As much as I love Empire Strikes Back, I could have lived without it."

The only thing more idiotic than that statement is one that ends in "...

Even at two seconds, you've got him beat, LOL!

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Poor Randy, still having issues with people not loving every single aspect of the SW films, or their creator, for that matter.

And I love this part:
And I'm blown away by your inability to be civil for 2 seconds.

"As much as I love Empire Strikes Back, I could have lived without it."

The only thing more idiotic than that statement is one that ends in "...

Even at two seconds, you've got him beat, LOL!


There's my biggest fan... glad you popped in to add your own brand of douchebaggery.

"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Originally posted by: JediRandy


So ESB is "good"? Not great, not the best SW film... just "good". Anyway isn't ESB the one with the least GL interference? At least that's what is always thrown around SW message boards.



JR, let me try to shed some light on the ESB/ROTJ story change issue. I love the OT, but SW'77 is my favorite of the 6 movies let alone of all-time for me, not ESB, so I am going to give you a view from someone who saw SW in 1977, and is able to see the story evolve on the bigscreen, not just by heresay or message boards.

SW & ESB/ROTJ are totally different animals, as they can work as a trilogy, but if you really dissect the story in ESB/ROTJ is TOTALLY different then the story that was put on screen in 1977. I love ESB, I think it is a great movie, but I am not the biggest fan of 'I am your father!' Now you are probably saying to yourself, "How can you not love that, it is the greatest twist in the history of movies?" Because it contradicts the original movie, plain & simple, and what happened is it changed SW from a macro story about Luke & the Rebels fighting the Empire in the struggle for the galaxy to a micro story of Luke/Vader which is so prevailent in ROTJ, and even more about Anakin in the PT.

What we are all trying to say is that "I am your father" is a killer plot twist, and I was as stunned as everyone sitting there as an 8 year old in 1980, but if you look at how Lucas took the OT, via ROTJ storyline, and even futher the PT, he got away with the original storyline that made SW'77 so great.

The reason I love SW'77 is because there isn't any grey areas to it, it is such a simple story of good vs evil, in the end that what makes it great. When you get to ROTJ, all of the sudden you have this moral tale of redemption, and redemption means something different to each person. But with ROTJ, Vader was still a minor character to Lukes story, so you really didn't have to examine his sins to enjoy the movie, it was Luke who threw down his saber, so you could gravitate to that act as the moral of the story.

With the PT, the story is clearly about Vader, and it is a grey one at that. Many people have a problem with him killing children, choking his wife, and then smiling as a force ghost at the end. Many Christians will side with Lucas and say EVERY sin is forgivable, so he has every right to sit next to Yoda/Kenobi in ROTJ. My whole point is that SW was not a grey area story back in 1977, and once Vader uttered those words to Luke on Bespin, the whole story & moral of the OT/Saga/ or whatever you want to call it changed, and that is why you have so many people like myself who questioned if ESB went the way of Vader, being the one killed Vader, and Luke taking a revenge angle, ala Conan the Barbarian/Braveheart storyline.


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Wow CO, that post of your above is scary for me to read, because I could have written exactly the same thing! I couldn't agree with you more. I too am really overwhelmingly a Star Wars '77 fan. I too saw it in '77 (at age 6) and loved every minute of it--to me it is a perfect film, and still my favorite. When ESB came out, I was as in to it as the next fan, and I might even concede that technically (from a filmmaking POV) it is the superior film; but (and an important but) storywise, it is merely the first half of a film whose second half is RotJ which to me is a pretty damn bad film. And I never bought the Vader redemption thing in the first place. In the end, all of the important information of the saga (accept for Vader's redemption) is contained in the original; the rest of the saga is largely dottig "i"s and crossing "t"s and spelling out everything for those who didn't have enough imagination to appreciate the original (my opionion, obviously). For me the original Star Wars has held up--when I watch it I still get that feeling I had as a kid. The rest of the "saga" feels largely like another formulaic franchise cash cow. To return to the original topic of this thread, this is why I fear the TV show, nothing lends itself to formulaic franchise cash cows more than serial episodic cinematic spin-off TV shows.
The movie from 1977 was called Star Wars, not Episode IV, not A New Hope, not Star Wars Episode IV: a New Hope, just plane Star Wars
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Someone needs to start a new Star Wars '77 forum with a 'Big Galaxy' thread. That would be a fun place to play. No PT, no ESB, no blasted ewoks or gungans.
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Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by: JediRandy


So ESB is "good"? Not great, not the best SW film... just "good". Anyway isn't ESB the one with the least GL interference? At least that's what is always thrown around SW message boards.



JR, let me try to shed some light on the ESB/ROTJ story change issue. I love the OT, but SW'77 is my favorite of the 6 movies let alone of all-time for me, not ESB, so I am going to give you a view from someone who saw SW in 1977, and is able to see the story evolve on the bigscreen, not just by heresay or message boards.

SW & ESB/ROTJ are totally different animals, as they can work as a trilogy, but if you really dissect the story in ESB/ROTJ is TOTALLY different then the story that was put on screen in 1977. I love ESB, I think it is a great movie, but I am not the biggest fan of 'I am your father!' Now you are probably saying to yourself, "How can you not love that, it is the greatest twist in the history of movies?" Because it contradicts the original movie, plain & simple, and what happened is it changed SW from a macro story about Luke & the Rebels fighting the Empire in the struggle for the galaxy to a micro story of Luke/Vader which is so prevailent in ROTJ, and even more about Anakin in the PT.

What we are all trying to say is that "I am your father" is a killer plot twist, and I was as stunned as everyone sitting there as an 8 year old in 1980, but if you look at how Lucas took the OT, via ROTJ storyline, and even futher the PT, he got away with the original storyline that made SW'77 so great.

The reason I love SW'77 is because there isn't any grey areas to it, it is such a simple story of good vs evil, in the end that what makes it great. When you get to ROTJ, all of the sudden you have this moral tale of redemption, and redemption means something different to each person. But with ROTJ, Vader was still a minor character to Lukes story, so you really didn't have to examine his sins to enjoy the movie, it was Luke who threw down his saber, so you could gravitate to that act as the moral of the story.

With the PT, the story is clearly about Vader, and it is a grey one at that. Many people have a problem with him killing children, choking his wife, and then smiling as a force ghost at the end. Many Christians will side with Lucas and say EVERY sin is forgivable, so he has every right to sit next to Yoda/Kenobi in ROTJ. My whole point is that SW was not a grey area story back in 1977, and once Vader uttered those words to Luke on Bespin, the whole story & moral of the OT/Saga/ or whatever you want to call it changed, and that is why you have so many people like myself who questioned if ESB went the way of Vader, being the one killed Vader, and Luke taking a revenge angle, ala Conan the Barbarian/Braveheart storyline.


I'm not arguing about story, about the PT being good, etc. I'm simply saying I'm blown away that people would consider (or even be fine with) ESB "going away" if it meant no more post ANH Star Wars.

If being flabbergasted by that train of thought is out of line then this place is more militant that I thought it was. That's Basher Sanctuary level stuff... (hence MeBeFanEditor chiming in)





"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Time
I don't think its a "Basher Sactuary" or extremist mentality at all. What Star Wars meant before it got out of control as a franchise has been lost. It could have been just a classic piece of cinema, a timeless fairy tale in the vein of Wizard of Oz that stands as a flawless family classic and a monumental piece of American cinema that changed the course of history and imprinted itself firmly on the pop culture of its time.

ESB and ROTJ, though great and good films that remain among my favourites, warped and changed that perception to a degree that is quite insidious. Instead of a mass-audience classic film, like Lawrence of Arabia or Jaws, it became part of a franchise; while both of those sequels, I'm sure most would agree, are about as terrific as sequels can possibly get, they still don't hold a candle to the magic simplistic and direct power that Star Wars enveloped upon its audience. Not only that, but said sequels changed the story of that film to large degrees, even if the basic heart of it still remained the same. If it was just ESB and ROTJ I would probably say that its acceptable that Star Wars got diminished, because it wasn't that diminished and those two follow ups are pretty decent, all things considering. But the prequels are just so far removed from what Star Wars was like, so far removed from the story it was telling, so far removed from anything to do with that film, and it completely warped, distorted and in many ways destroyed the magic story on display in that film, building on the retcons of ESB/ROTJ and magnifying them. Aside from that, the public perception has totally changed due to these films, and new fans are entering that not only are totally oblivious to the original film's perception and power, but actually prefer the new identity--the contrasting, opposite version--that was brought in by ESB and the sequels and prequels. Taking this further, the EU that developed as a response to the sequels and prequels, and now has spawned countless books, comics and videogames, has changed Star Wars from a landmark cinema classic into an incidental film adaptation in this sprawling web of content, the vast majority of which is not only lousy in execution but completely removed from a direct relation to that original film. Additionally, the weakness of all of these subsequent entries has commulatively created a much more negative view of the original film, in that instead of being respected as a film like Lawrence of Arabia or Wizard of Oz might be respected my Joe Moviegoer (who may or may not have even seen said films), it is instead regarded as part of a dumb sci-fi franchise in the same manner that Star Trek and its various spin-offs are.

So, while I love ESB and like ROTJ, and while I may have been willing to accept the limited diminishing effect that those two sequels held on the original, it is a totally different ball game in 2007, where we have not two but five sequels, not one comic series (as there was in 1977-1983) but literally dozens, not three EU books as there was from 1977-1983 but nearly hundreds, where we have two--and presumably a third, final--Special Editions of the original film, where there are now three TV series being made or already made and where the sequels don't get nominated for Best Picture Oscars but Worst Picture Razzies.

What Star Wars lost is really only known by those who have continued to ignore all of those subsequent developments, and thus most Star Wars fans, especially those on the net who are into all that EU/SE/PT stuff that a lot of more casual fans don't care for, are largely ignorant to it. We here represent a specialised group with a high number of people who can actually see the growing diminishing effect on that classic film.

Because that is, above all else, what Star Wara is to me. Not "A New Hope," not Episode VI, not the first entry in an adventure trilogy or the fourth entry in an epic multi-generational melodrama, and not a singular filmic entry in a giant universe of other stories in books, comics and games--but simply a classic film, a landmark American movie that remains on "Great Films of All Time" lists usually somewhere between Godfather and Seven Samurai.