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"Lucas can't find home for Star Wars spin-off" — Page 5

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Originally posted by: Baronlando
Lucas seems to be forgetting his truly terrible track record in television. "It's Star Wars", well so was Ewok Adventure. And Young Indy had a great, amazing roster of talent and still bombed in the ratings. He should understand why the networks would be a little gun shy.
It really is hard to say how Star Wars is perceived these days. I don't think the general population flat out hates the prequels, but I do think they are just getting indifferent to Star Wars in general. I only say that because the same thing happened in the 80s, people move on.


QTF, IMO. I think that it's a simple case of biting off more than you can chew.

What happened in the 80s?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Baronlando
Lucas seems to be forgetting his truly terrible track record in television. "It's Star Wars", well so was Ewok Adventure. And Young Indy had a great, amazing roster of talent and still bombed in the ratings. He should understand why the networks would be a little gun shy.
It really is hard to say how Star Wars is perceived these days. I don't think the general population flat out hates the prequels, but I do think they are just getting indifferent to Star Wars in general. I only say that because the same thing happened in the 80s, people move on.


Yeah, a whole gaggle of TV execs all went out and rented Ewok Adventures before turning the show down.


"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: see you auntie
More Lucas musings on the live action series http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/tv/la-et-starwars17oct17,0,6734523.story?coll=la-home-center


From the article:

"They are having a hard time," Lucas said. "They're saying, 'This doesn't fit into our little square boxes..."


And he even added "'Well, yeah, but it's Star Wars. And Star Wars doesn't fit into that box.'" So he's still got the "It's Star Wars!" mentality. I'm also willing to bet that Cartoon Network is willing to put it on Adult Swim, but that he views Cartoon Network as a "kiddie channel". I think that's pretty clear from this "to go after 9 o'clock, and it can't be a kiddie channel." I wonder if he's ever watched Adult Swim, since it's anything but a "kiddie channel".


Now that you mention it, The Clone Wars would fit rather nicely into Adult Swim if only because it would shake up that programming lineup even more than it already is. You've got Futurama which is pretty much the closest in terms of animation, but still not entirely CGI by any means and even the stuff that is CGI is cell-shaded. Then you've got family guy which is more traditional animation. You've got some anime shows like Cowboy Bebop. Then you've got the really simplistically animated shows like Aqua Teen, Squidbillies and 12 Ounce Mouse (is that show even on any more?). Then there's stuff that actually involves live action elements like Tom Goes to the Mayor. I think the reason this doesn't seem like so natural of a fit (at least to Lucas anyway) is that Lucasfilm is producing this show all by itself, so it could end up anywhere as far as he's concerned.
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Originally posted by: Mike O

Also, he couldn't be more wrong. These days, networks - broadcast and cable - are taking more chances and writing\shooting\presenting outside the little box more than they ever have before.


I don't really think that this is true at all, given the current state of Hollywood's endlessly recycling idea machine, but even if it is, I still think that there would be no reason for them to purchase 100+ episodes of anything. Maybe he should start thinking outside of HIS little square box.


I'm not talking about the ideas Mike - I'm talking about the presentation and the use of the medium itself. Reality shows - prime time unedited interviews with political candidates - interactive game shows and contests with people texting in from home in real-time during the broadcast - cable stepping up it's productions to where it's now a major player - daily, live reports from war zones - cop shows so realistic that it's often times disturbing - episode formats such as 24 - adult cartoons, etc, etc.

Mike, TV of 2007 doesn't even resemble TV of ten or fifteen years ago. Networks let go of little square box a long time ago. Cable tested the water with series like The Sopranos and movies like Angels In America. Once people realized how awesome TV could really be, there was no turning back.

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Mike O, I just meant in the 80s people lost interest in Star Wars post-Jedi, and seemed to ignore the Tv movies. And the cartoons, toys and comic books.
Randy, uh, yes that's exactly what I meant. You got me. Kudos.
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Originally posted by: JediRandy
Originally posted by: Baronlando
Lucas seems to be forgetting his truly terrible track record in television. "It's Star Wars", well so was Ewok Adventure. And Young Indy had a great, amazing roster of talent and still bombed in the ratings. He should understand why the networks would be a little gun shy.
It really is hard to say how Star Wars is perceived these days. I don't think the general population flat out hates the prequels, but I do think they are just getting indifferent to Star Wars in general. I only say that because the same thing happened in the 80s, people move on.


Yeah, a whole gaggle of TV execs all went out and rented Ewok Adventures before turning the show down.


Are you being sarcastic? It's difficult to tell with you ...

I wonder why he's so ill-adept with TV?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Anchorhead


There have been a few TV sitcoms that quit when they were still strong. Each time, the actors\creators said they wanted to stop when the series were still good, still watchable. Leave at the top of their game, etc, etc.

The Prequels are what happen when you don't do that. Lucas should have quit when he was ahead.

The term "jumping the shark" springs to mind.

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Originally posted by: JediRandy

Yeah, a whole gaggle of TV execs all went out and rented Ewok Adventures before turning the show down.

Are you trying to say that it was a direct to video release? Because it was actually a made for TV movie, and it really did bomb. Whatever TV exec took it probably did wish he had rented it first.


Originally posted by: DarthPoppy
the SuperUltimateLastFinalLucasOnHisDeathBedEdition of Star Wars which will now be numbered Episode 104, as the 100 TV episodes will take place between Episode III and Star Wars.



Haha! I forgot, that is exactly what he did with Indiana Jones. I remember the yellow box VHS release (the last US release before the DVD set) for the Indy Trilogy had their episode numbers on the spine, Raiders was Episode 24 or something like that.


"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Actually, the Ewok Adventure tv movie was quite successful--in Europe it was even released theatrically, and they eventually made a sequel. Droids was somewhat popular and lasted two or three seasons, and the Ewok cartoon was equally successful. Young Indy had a hard time in the ratings but I think that was due to a changing timelsot--the same thing happened with Futurama and Firefly, explaining why critically-praised shows with a hugely devoted fanbase managed to get cancelled. Like the aforementioned shows, Young Indy still returned in made-for-TV edits and then was released on video in the late 90's, and became a highly-requested DVD title. So while Lucas never had a hit TV show the way he did with his films, I wouldn't say he was unsuccessful, he just always stayed in that sort of average, non-remarkable region that most TV series achieve, but because it is Star Wars people still remember Ewok Adventure and Young Indy even after ten and twenty years.

And of course, as was pointed out, 1985 and 1993 are not 2008 and 2009, when the new series will be out--in a lot of ways Young Indy was ahead of its time, it is the type of big-budget drama that you see all over the tube nowadays and i think if its was re-broadcast it would still find a considerable audience even after fifteen years. Aside from that, the Clone War cartoon from 2003 and 2004 was massively popular and i have to admit very well done, for what it was. In a lot of ways it gave me hope, because it showed that Star Wars spin-offs, even PT-based ones done in 5-10 minute episodes, could be highly entertaining. So I have to say, as always, to wait and see how the live-action series turns out, because as dangerous as it could be to the franchise, theres an equal, if not higher chance of it being pretty decent, and even quite good. Since we know almost nothing about it other than when it will be set, its really too early to say how it will play. And as far as audience and network, all I have to say is "Battlestar Galactica"; Lucas has stated that he is looking at specialty networks like HBO and Sci-Fi Network that would be interested in more ambitious and niche-market TV material such as what he is planning.
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Um...no. Not all 80's people lost interest. I saw the TV movies. I didn't lose interest as much as the films kind of just faded away.

Originally posted by: Baronlando
Mike O, I just meant in the 80s people lost interest in Star Wars post-Jedi, and seemed to ignore the Tv movies. And the cartoons, toys and comic books.
Randy, uh, yes that's exactly what I meant. You got me. Kudos.


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My curiousity about all these Star Wars TV shows and another blockbuster franchise film (Indy IV) in the works is that I thought Lucas said that part of the reason he decided to do the PT was to make a lot of money to self-finance all kinds of experimental
"arthouse" films. I read this to mean getting away from franchise TV spinoffs and summer blockbuster movies (ala INdy IV--didn't he say he thought the age of the feature film/theatrical release was over some time last year), and get back to his roots with truly experimental film (like the original THX). I guess either I was wrong or he changed his mind.
The movie from 1977 was called Star Wars, not Episode IV, not A New Hope, not Star Wars Episode IV: a New Hope, just plane Star Wars
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The prequels ARE Lucas' experimental arthouse films. He just attached Star Wars to the names so he could make some money.

I think "experimental" for Lucas has a technical meaning, instead of referring to story or style.

Among other things, the prequels gave us:
- extensive use of bluescreen for live-action sequences
- totally CGI characters
- partially CGI characters
- digital filming

The story itself was merely a framework on which to place these technical experiments.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Thats not what Lucas meant though--he said actual films that are abstract and experimental like how THX and his student films are. Because Spider-Man 3 gave us 100% CG characters, Superman Returns gave us all digital filming, and every other blockbuster now shares these qualities. The only thing Lucas did before most was shoot on digital tape, but this was just a cost-saver because he had so many special effects in the movie (and ultimately the cost-saving factor failed). IMO Lucas will never make those movies of his, which he says he has brainstormed in note form; he was saying this in 1983 as well, and in 1977 as well, and actually all the way back to 1974. It started because of American Graffiti, which was a mainstream film that became a hit--Lucas didn't like being associated with the mainstream since he thought of himself as an experimental art-house type (ie THX) so he started saying that he would be getting back to his roots. Then he did the opposite and made Star Wars, and was even more uncomfortable that he was one of the biggest hollywood success stories ever, so he said he was going to get back to his roots. Then he made Raiders and two Star Wars sequels, and his reputation was cemented, so he said he was retiring from blockbusters and one day he'll come back to his experimental art-house films that "are destined to fail." Skywalker Ranch was completed, which he said was built for the very purpose of self-creating these "little art house experiments", but then he just used it to work on blockbusters like Ghostbusters, Willow and Hook. Then when he finally returned to the directors chair he just made more Star Wars.

Now he says he will be doing these little art films--but then he goes on to make Indy IV, and two Star Wars TV series, which it now appears he is co-writing. By the time those are both released it will be after 2010, and maybe if we are lucky Lucas can get Red Tails made--which is not a small, personal art film but a big-budget historical action-drama about WWII dogfights. By that time he will be in his mid-70's, and I'm sure will retire, live his twilight peacefully in Lucas Land and then pass away sometime not long after due to his diabetes. Really, I think this whole "I'm an experimenter, I will make small personal films that everyone will hate because I'm avante-garde" is just his way of coping with mainstream fame.
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Originally posted by: Mike O
Originally posted by: JediRandy
Originally posted by: Baronlando
Lucas seems to be forgetting his truly terrible track record in television. "It's Star Wars", well so was Ewok Adventure. And Young Indy had a great, amazing roster of talent and still bombed in the ratings. He should understand why the networks would be a little gun shy.
It really is hard to say how Star Wars is perceived these days. I don't think the general population flat out hates the prequels, but I do think they are just getting indifferent to Star Wars in general. I only say that because the same thing happened in the 80s, people move on.


Yeah, a whole gaggle of TV execs all went out and rented Ewok Adventures before turning the show down.


Are you being sarcastic? It's difficult to tell with you ...

I wonder why he's so ill-adept with TV?


hehe

I'm just saying that I highly doubt the Ewok Adventures has anything to do with this new series finding a network. I mean, they can look at the billions of dollars the movies made and base their decision on that or they can base it on a made for TV movie that starring a midget in a bear suit and Wilford Brimley.
"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Originally posted by: JediRandy
Originally posted by: Mike O
Originally posted by: JediRandy
Originally posted by: Baronlando
Lucas seems to be forgetting his truly terrible track record in television. "It's Star Wars", well so was Ewok Adventure. And Young Indy had a great, amazing roster of talent and still bombed in the ratings. He should understand why the networks would be a little gun shy.
It really is hard to say how Star Wars is perceived these days. I don't think the general population flat out hates the prequels, but I do think they are just getting indifferent to Star Wars in general. I only say that because the same thing happened in the 80s, people move on.


Yeah, a whole gaggle of TV execs all went out and rented Ewok Adventures before turning the show down.


Are you being sarcastic? It's difficult to tell with you ...

I wonder why he's so ill-adept with TV?


hehe

I'm just saying that I highly doubt the Ewok Adventures has anything to do with this new series finding a network. I mean, they can look at the billions of dollars the movies made and base their decision on that or they can base it on a made for TV movie that starring a midget in a bear suit and Wilford Brimley.


Perfectly valid point. I think that Lucas's track record for TV is a factor, but you're right that they probably didn't sit down and go "lets have a look at EVERYTHING that this guy ever made."

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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When talking about Lucas's (and the Star Wars franchise's) track record with TV, let's not forget the original and mother of them all,
The Star Wars Holiday Special !
The movie from 1977 was called Star Wars, not Episode IV, not A New Hope, not Star Wars Episode IV: a New Hope, just plane Star Wars
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Thats not what Lucas meant though--he said actual films that are abstract and experimental like how THX and his student films are. Because Spider-Man 3 gave us 100% CG characters, Superman Returns gave us all digital filming, and every other blockbuster now shares these qualities. The only thing Lucas did before most was shoot on digital tape, but this was just a cost-saver because he had so many special effects in the movie (and ultimately the cost-saving factor failed). IMO Lucas will never make those movies of his, which he says he has brainstormed in note form; he was saying this in 1983 as well, and in 1977 as well, and actually all the way back to 1974. It started because of American Graffiti, which was a mainstream film that became a hit--Lucas didn't like being associated with the mainstream since he thought of himself as an experimental art-house type (ie THX) so he started saying that he would be getting back to his roots. Then he did the opposite and made Star Wars, and was even more uncomfortable that he was one of the biggest hollywood success stories ever, so he said he was going to get back to his roots. Then he made Raiders and two Star Wars sequels, and his reputation was cemented, so he said he was retiring from blockbusters and one day he'll come back to his experimental art-house films that "are destined to fail." Skywalker Ranch was completed, which he said was built for the very purpose of self-creating these "little art house experiments", but then he just used it to work on blockbusters like Ghostbusters, Willow and Hook. Then when he finally returned to the directors chair he just made more Star Wars.

Now he says he will be doing these little art films--but then he goes on to make Indy IV, and two Star Wars TV series, which it now appears he is co-writing. By the time those are both released it will be after 2010, and maybe if we are lucky Lucas can get Red Tails made--which is not a small, personal art film but a big-budget historical action-drama about WWII dogfights. By that time he will be in his mid-70's, and I'm sure will retire, live his twilight peacefully in Lucas Land and then pass away sometime not long after due to his diabetes. Really, I think this whole "I'm an experimenter, I will make small personal films that everyone will hate because I'm avante-garde" is just his way of coping with mainstream fame.


Win. Absolute win.
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yup we all know how arthouse those films after jedi were howard the duck and willow, radioland murders, tucker and young indiana jones tv movies, LOL.

seriously had he not made american graffiti, star wars and raiders he would be a broke nobody who could not get a job in hollywood and if not for francis ford coppola would have been editing documentaries or be a grease monkey in an automobile garage.

seriously if you put all the turds lucas, speilberg and ron howard have produced together you get one big smelly pile of shit.

they have a few gems but mostly all crap.

Lucas just happens to have more flopps and turkeys than all of his buddies combined, more american grafiiti anyone?

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005


seriously had he not made american graffiti, star wars and raiders he would be a broke nobody who could not get a job in hollywood and if not for francis ford coppola would have been editing documentaries or be a grease monkey in an automobile garage.
?



In fairness to Lucas, that is a pretty good resume, so you can call him out on his flops, but you have to give him his due for those movies.

I honestly think if Lucas only made SW in 1977 and moved on he would be a totally different director, and I believe he would have a stronger resume. I don't think he is the greatest director in the world, but Graffiti and Star Wars are both true classics of the 70's, and creating Indiana Jones too shows Lucas as a great storytelling.

Do you notice his great career stops after Raiders in 1981? That is when he started Skywalker Ranch, and became a businessman, and the great storyteller known as George cease to exist to a man who wanted to make $$$$$. Francis Ford Coppola even said, "Star Wars robbed us of one of the greatest directors of this generation."

I think too many fans just think of Lucas as Darth Lucas post-1983, of a guy who made movies for kids and got obsessed with special effects, instead of the George Lucas pre-1983, who made movies for adults that kids could enjoy too.
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Originally posted by: COFrancis Ford Coppola even said, "Star Wars robbed us of one of the greatest directors of this generation."


Too true and it wasn't worth it. As much as I love Empire Strikes Back, I could have lived without it. It would have been nice to be able to say "Star Wars is a great movie" and have (a.) not every one know what movie you are talking about and (b.) not have to worry about those who do know what you are talking about think of SW as a disjoined series of six films of inconsistent qualities and styles, but rather a single cult sci-fi film from the late seventies.


Originally posted by: COinstead of the George Lucas pre-1983, who made movies for adults that kids could enjoy too.



Yeah, I for one loved watching the sex scenes in THX 1138 when I was a kid, rest of the movie seemed pretty boring to me though. My favorite part was trying to figure out which one was the guy and which one was the girl, it was pretty hard to tell with both of them being as hairless as naked mole rats.

Okay, Star Wars was fun for kids and adults, and so was Raiders (though perhaps for slightly older kids), but I would categorize Graffiti and THX as more mid/late teen to adult. I don't know of too many kids with American Graffiti on their Christmas list.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX



Too true and it wasn't worth it. As much as I love Empire Strikes Back, I could have lived without it. It would have been nice to be able to say "Star Wars is a great movie" and have (a.) not every one know what movie you are talking about and (b.) not have to worry about those who do know what you are talking about think of SW as a disjoined series of six films of inconsistent qualities and styles, but rather a single cult sci-fi film from the late seventies.

.


As much as an OOT fan I am, this statement is dead on because of the way Lucas has taken the SW movies in the past 10 years. Would I sacrific ESB for not having to deal with the PT movies invading the OOT? I think I would now, as I am becoming more and more a SW'77 fan in alot of ways cause that is the only movie I can watch and not think about the Saga and all the other BS that has pervaded a GFFA. I haven't watched ROTJ in years cause the OOT DVD is so crappy, and the SE has Hayden at the end of the movie, and everytime I see him next to Alec Guiness I want to throw my remote control through the TV!

No, ESB = no OT, no PT, no SE, no EU, no TV series, instead a high quality transfer of the 1977 Version of SW without the Episode IV in the main crawl and no silly updates? I am starting to lean that way.

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Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by: C3PX



Too true and it wasn't worth it. As much as I love Empire Strikes Back, I could have lived without it. It would have been nice to be able to say "Star Wars is a great movie" and have (a.) not every one know what movie you are talking about and (b.) not have to worry about those who do know what you are talking about think of SW as a disjoined series of six films of inconsistent qualities and styles, but rather a single cult sci-fi film from the late seventies.

.


As much as an OOT fan I am, this statement is dead on because of the way Lucas has taken the SW movies in the past 10 years. Would I sacrific ESB for not having to deal with the PT movies invading the OOT? I think I would now, as I am becoming more and more a SW'77 fan in alot of ways cause that is the only movie I can watch and not think about the Saga and all the other BS that has pervaded a GFFA. I haven't watched ROTJ in years cause the OOT DVD is so crappy, and the SE has Hayden at the end of the movie, and everytime I see him next to Alec Guiness I want to throw my remote control through the TV!

No, ESB = no OT, no PT, no SE, no EU, no TV series, instead a high quality transfer of the 1977 Version of SW without the Episode IV in the main crawl and no silly updates? I am starting to lean that way.


Really? You'd give up ESB to make the PT go away? That's insane... don't watch the PT and presto! It goes away...

I'm blown away by that comment.

"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Originally posted by: JediRandy


Really? You'd give up ESB to make the PT go away? That's insane... don't watch the PT and presto! It goes away...

I'm blown away by that comment.


JR, I can't make the PT go away, cause it pervades the OT movies now. I can't watch that crap OOT DVD Lucas put out last year on my HDTV, it is 2 hours of a grainy, blurry, dull transfer that is one big middle finger to fans like me. The 2004 SE are great quality, but you have to put up with the new scenes including Hayden lurking there at the end of ROTJ, which I totally despise. I am one of those fans who can live with Greedo shooting first, yet I can't take Hayden sitting there next to Alec Guiness.

I still love ESB, cause that really isn't effected that much by the SE, so don't get me wrong, the movie is still my #2 favorite movie of all-time, but ROTJ always completed it cause in a sense ESB is part 1 and ROTJ is part 2, and I just can't watch the ROTJ SE with JediRocks and that whole ending. So my point was, sadly I am so pissed off with the way Lucas has presented the movies on DVD to his older fanbase, I'd be willing to give up ALL sequels/prequels for the Original SW, the 1977 version, remastered, anamorphic, 5.1 DD, cause that is still my favorite movie of all-time.

I know it sounds F'd up JR, but that is what Lucas has done to these movies in the past 10 years, and if he just would have put out the OOT in the proper DVD quality it deserved, I would be able to watch them without ANY PT actors being in the OT movies!

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I wouldn't give up Empire (or even Jedi or Revenge, really) but I can understand that view. You can't underestimate the simple "purity" of that first movie, for a lot of people, that's THE reason to be into Star Wars, that is the essence of its charm and a larger "saga" with everything explained and resolved is almost a complete 180 from that. A scifi/fantasy "franchise" is a more ordinary thing, we have lots of those.
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One thing about art is knowing when to quit; when to say it's done and enough is enough. That said though, I wouldn't give up Empire. It's too amazing of a movie. Though I definitely think I would give up RotJ if it meant no prequels. I like the movie a lot, but not as much as I loath the prequels.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005