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Blu-ray Disc or HD-DVD? — Page 5

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
you guys should see the bad reviews on the star trek HD season 1 set on amazon because it is 200 bucks, LOL

200 bucks per season? OMG! That's what I would call overprized...
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
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Originally posted by: Moth3r
Even stupider are the people who buy an HD DVD player because their displays are labelled "HD ready" and not "Blu-ray ready". (LINK)

BTW in case you haven't seen it: Doom9's article on the "format war".


To sum up the first story "The Industry is causing consumer confusion".

The second article was really informative. There's a lot about Blu-ray that I didn't know. I can't believe all the titles they've released with mpeg2 encoding. They've got a ton of space to use and all they're doing is wasting it.
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I didn't even know you could use an mpeg2 coder for material with a resolution greater than 720 x 576.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
I didn't even know you could use an mpeg2 coder for material with a resolution greater than 720 x 576.


Yep, you sure can. But why would you? I think that article over on Doom9 makes it pretty clear. The studios don't want to give people something that looks good or is better. They want to give people just enough to make them happy. Putting mpeg2 video on a Blu-ray disc is "good enough". I'm honestly surprised we don't hear more outrage over this.

On a slightly related topic, does anyone know what the disc layout of a Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc is like? I would assume that an HD-DVD disc has the same layout as a DVD, but what about a Blu-ray disc? Are they completely different or just the same layout (VIDEO and AUDIO_TS folders with VOBs within)?
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
On a slightly related topic, does anyone know what the disc layout of a Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc is like? I would assume that an HD-DVD disc has the same layout as a DVD, but what about a Blu-ray disc? Are they completely different or just the same layout (VIDEO and AUDIO_TS folders with VOBs within)?


Here you can find the file structures.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Today I was looking at the store what titles are available on HD-DVD and Blu-ray and I noticed the disc cases are quite a bit smaller than DVD cases. For a lot of people this isn't a problem I presume but I think it's stupid. The HD cases won't fit in my special dvd furniture.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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OK, here's the question I'm asking for all you tech heads out there.

Why is it that HD-DVD outputs 30p but Blu-ray outputs 24p?
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I believe most HD-DVD and Blu-ray disc players output 1080p/60 or 1080i/30. But to be honest I don't know much about it. But are there TVs in stores that can display 24p?
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Today I was looking at the store what titles are available on HD-DVD and Blu-ray and I noticed the disc cases are quite a bit smaller than DVD cases. For a lot of people this isn't a problem I presume but I think it's stupid. The HD cases won't fit in my special dvd furniture.


Yes I find that annoying as well...and on top of that the Blu-Ray cases are the cheapest cases I have ever seen....why when the quality of the format has gone up the quality of the case has gone down? lol

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DVD cases were really cool, for the first time we have movies, games for PC and all consoles, software, everything sharing the same shape and size of case. I was enjoying that, it is annoying they decided that they needed to change it. It would have been nice to put DVDs and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD on the same shelf and have then blend in flawlessly... oh well. I like how Nintendo with the Wii's white cases and Xbox with the green cases customized them and made them immediately distinguishible by the color of their case. Blu-Ray would have been cool if they would have merely changed the color to some shade of blue.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
OK, here's the question I'm asking for all you tech heads out there.

Why is it that HD-DVD outputs 30p but Blu-ray outputs 24p?


I don't know where you read that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
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Yea I did some further research and it turns out I was wrong. Both formats support 24p, it's just that there aren't any hd-dvd players yet that can output it.
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"it's just that there aren't any hd-dvd players yet that can output it."

another reason why blu ray is better, LOL.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I read that HD-DVD is making a huge push to get Warner Brothers to release their movies in HD-DVD only, as they may be forking over the same amount they did to Paramount.

I smell a comeback by HD-DVD in 2007!
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Yea I did some further research and it turns out I was wrong. Both formats support 24p, it's just that there aren't any hd-dvd players yet that can output it.


But it looks like there are:

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10285.cfm

The question is, how many TVs can support 24p input?
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Originally posted by: CO
I read that HD-DVD is making a huge push to get Warner Brothers to release their movies in HD-DVD only, as they may be forking over the same amount they did to Paramount.

I smell a comeback by HD-DVD in 2007!


According to the bits, that's a bit of old news. It apparently happened during the same week they paid Paramount and DreamWorks to go HD-DVD exclusive, but Warner rejected the offer.

With more people not sure of which format to get and sales of DVDs on the decline as people wait out the war, I smell two very dead hi-def formats by this time next year. It's a shame really, because a lot of people are ready to adopt a new format, but not when there's two competing ones out there.
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When I hear people talk about DVD sales declining, the only factor I can possibly fathom having anything to do with it is that the DVD market is relatively saturated. By this point in time, virtually EVERY movie has had a DVD release (or two, or three, or four), and people have had the opportunity to pick them up over the years. DVD's also decrease in price relatively quick at the major retailers. Just look at Best Buy's and CC's circulars. Movies that have only been on DVD for 6 months are routinely $11.99 or something. I'm not saying people aren't still buying DVDs, there just isn't as much motivation as there was a few years ago so overall sales are declining, and new releases don't balance it out.
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virtually EVERY movie has had a DVD release

Oh really? I can name three that have never been released and will never see the light of day with either format. So why bother with this whole HD wars if the OOT is never going to show up in regular standard forms. The whole HD war is way too soon (8 years after DVD had been introduced into the market), and 20 years from now we will have to suffice with laserdisc quality "bootlegs" two or three video generations down. The GOUT at that time could be over 50 years outdated by then.
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Originally posted by: generalfrevious
virtually EVERY movie has had a DVD release

Oh really? I can name three that have never been released and will never see the light of day with either format. So why bother with this whole HD wars if the OOT is never going to show up in regular standard forms. The whole HD war is way too soon (8 years after DVD had been introduced into the market), and 20 years from now we will have to suffice with laserdisc quality "bootlegs" two or three video generations down. The GOUT at that time could be over 50 years outdated by then.


Technically the SW trilogy has been released on DVD now with the GOUT, it just happens to be an incredible poor quality release. But yeah, it is incredible far fetched to say virtually every movie has been released on DVD, there are TONS of movies not on DVD, sadly. The most popular of the films that haven't officially been released have fortunately had fan made VHS or LD transfers, but the less popular films are probably doomed to never be officially released.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Windexed
When I hear people talk about DVD sales declining, the only factor I can possibly fathom having anything to do with it is that the DVD market is relatively saturated. By this point in time, virtually EVERY movie has had a DVD release (or two, or three, or four), and people have had the opportunity to pick them up over the years. DVD's also decrease in price relatively quick at the major retailers. Just look at Best Buy's and CC's circulars. Movies that have only been on DVD for 6 months are routinely $11.99 or something. I'm not saying people aren't still buying DVDs, there just isn't as much motivation as there was a few years ago so overall sales are declining, and new releases don't balance it out.


I believe the bits numbers are based on the number of DVDs sold and not the dollar amount being sold. The uptake of HD is in fact a lot lower than the studios expected, mostly because they're stupid and didn't think a format war would last this long. Apparently none of them remember beta vs vhs.
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Triple-layer 51GB HD DVD May Be Ready





looks like HD-DVD will be bigger than Blu-Ray, HD going up too 51gb 3 layer disc.
This news from: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/

(10/4/2007)
CHRIS TRIBBEY
Several news outlets are reporting the DVD Forum has approved, or is close to approving, Toshiba’s 51GB, triple-layer, single-sided HD DVD, which was first announced at the CES show this year.

Storing 17GB on each of the three layers, the new HD DVD, if used in production, would surpass Blu-ray Disc’s 50GB. The DVD Forum did not wish to comment. However, Andy Parsons, chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association’s U.S. Promotions Group, was quick to slam the dig at the Blu-ray 50GB with the extra 1GB, and questioned how the 51GB HD DVD would affect production costs for HD DVD backers, and whether the new discs would play on existing HD DVD players.

“It will be very interesting to see how they address production issues,” he said. “And wait a minute, wasn’t the 30GB big enough for them? They were so adamant about it.”


I now own both HD formats and I agree the price should come down below Reguler DVD for Films.
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Originally posted by: JangoxFett
Triple-layer 51GB HD DVD May Be Ready





looks like HD-DVD will be bigger than Blu-Ray, HD going up too 51gb 3 layer disc.
This news from: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/

(10/4/2007)
CHRIS TRIBBEY
Several news outlets are reporting the DVD Forum has approved, or is close to approving, Toshiba’s 51GB, triple-layer, single-sided HD DVD, which was first announced at the CES show this year.

Storing 17GB on each of the three layers, the new HD DVD, if used in production, would surpass Blu-ray Disc’s 50GB. The DVD Forum did not wish to comment. However, Andy Parsons, chairman of the Blu-ray Disc Association’s U.S. Promotions Group, was quick to slam the dig at the Blu-ray 50GB with the extra 1GB, and questioned how the 51GB HD DVD would affect production costs for HD DVD backers, and whether the new discs would play on existing HD DVD players.

“It will be very interesting to see how they address production issues,” he said. “And wait a minute, wasn’t the 30GB big enough for them? They were so adamant about it.”


I now own both HD formats and I agree the price should come down below Reguler DVD for Films.


That guy's a jerk. The 30 GB is apparently enough for them judging by a table of movie releases I saw recently. Apparently a lot more movies on HD-DVD are using the VC-1 codec, which is the better codec, due to size limitations. Since BD has 50 GB available on a dual layer disc, studios are just releasing them in mpeg2. VC-1 is the better codec and should be used for all hi-def content on both formats. Rather than go the extra mile to release a movie with a better quality codec, the studios doing Blu-Ray are using mpeg2 on both the Blu-Ray and standard DVD and only going with VC-1 on HD-DVD.

The only reason for announcing a 51 GB HD-DVD is to say "Look, we've got a disc that has a capacity similar to Blu-Ray". Unfortunately, it appears that the triple layer discs aren't compatible with most players.
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Yea, I really don't see what their point in announcing this is besides to get attention for the dvd forum, especially if it's not even going to work in the players that are out there now (which, by the way, they keep reminding everyone there are a lot of). They don't need any more than 30 gigs, this is fact. On releases like '300' where the video transfers on both the hd-dvd and the blu-ray disc are identical VC-1 and therefore taking up the same amount of space, blu-ray fills up at least some of the remaining space with a PCM soundtrack. VC-1 and AVC are neck and neck in terms of looks, at least judging from a thread I stumbled upon where a guy compared the japanese AVC hd-dvd release of Chronicles of Riddick to the American VC-1 hd-dvd release and gave the slight but negligible edge to one of them (I don't remember which). Therefore, if using VC-1 on more releases from now on is what will make microsoft happy enough to let hd-dvd loose and end this stupid format competition, so be it. DVD/HD-DVD combo discs are stupid when we're not going to want to watch our movies in standard def NTSC or PAL ten years from now anymore, not to mention they cost more than a blu-ray only disc. Keeping the players themselves backward compatible I would imagine is the more relevant issue in people's minds, especially the ones with gigantic dvd collections. Yes, I understand that people without high def players might not want to pay for the same thing twice and that's the appeal of the dvd/hd-dvd discs, which if fine except for the fact that there's a very high defect rate in their production.

Speaking of this whole high def discussion: I realize this is the off topic section but there's a question that's been on my mind for a while. Were the HD broadcasts of the Star Wars movies running at a true 24 frames per second or were they transferred to 25 frames per second in Germany and 23.976 in the U.S.? This is actually part of a bigger question I have and that is about HD broadcasts in general. Does "high definition" always mean "being displayed at its proper frame rate" or does it just have to do with the fact that it's digital and at a higher resolution?
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Part of this development with HD DVD is enabling the possibility of an SACD-style hybrid disc, since one of the triple layer format's specs is 30-34GB HD DVD dual layer coupled with a single layer of SD DVD on the same side of the disc. If it works, it would be much more reliable than the current HD DVD combo spec.

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See, its bullshit like this that has turned me off the format completely. Its just so complicated and stupid, its entirely about corporate greed and has nothing to do with consumer benfits. Microsoft has put this format war to such unnecessary length thats its actually accomplishing what many presume has been Mircrosoft's intention all along: to sabotage the format. Because the truth is that most people have stopped caring. I'm behind Blu-Ray because its the better format but at this point I think I'd be most happy if both of them just withered away, because this whole mess is a complete cluster-fuck that confuses and divides consumers. HD will never win in a dual-format arena; it looked like HD-DVD was dead this summer but now its come back and probably by Christmas it will still be a stalemate--and i think that means that both formats will die. Consumers will willing to either ride out the war or take their chances with their preferred format for a year, but by 2008 people will be so sick of it all that they just won't care anymore. Look at what happened with SACD and DVD-A. Both of them were solid formats that offered a great opportunity to advance our audio format from the CD, but because there was a format war early adopters were divided, neither format took off, the all-important mass consumer lost interest, and both formats died, and now here we are still with the CD.