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What If The SE Were Only...

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Forgive me if this topic has been spoken about before, but, what would your attitude be towards the SE if they were solely about special effects enhancements, better sound and music quality and so-on? What if the SE editions had to alterations towards the plot, characters, diologue, unneeded "special" scenes (i.e. "Jedi Rocks", Jabba in ANH, "Wessa free!"), etc., would you accept them more openly? I, personally, would not have much a problem with them if they did (although I wouldn't like them as much as I do the OOT). Paramont (although it was after LucasFlim released the SE) released the episodes of the original Star Trek on DVD with only special effects alterations. It has since been accepted well within the Sterk Trek community. I can't help but think if LucasFilm had done the same then the mess we have today would possibly be nonexistent.
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What if the "Star Wars Special Edition" was actually the "Star Wars Special Edition" and not a replacement for the original. I was so damn excited when it first came out because it was supposed to be a fun enhancement on the original, not a replacement for it. I didn't like all the changes but I could shrug and say "meh" because at the end of the day I still had the original. Stuff like Greedo shooting first would still get harped on but we wouldn't fixate on it because we wouldn't have to, those that can tolerate dumb stuff like that can enjoy it and we could all go back to enjoying the original the way we had the previous twenty years.
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I actually wouldn't have cared if Lucas just made special effects changes back in 1997. Of course I will always prefer the OOT, but because Lucas started changing scenes, (Greedo shooting first, Jabba in ANH, Han walking into a hundred Stormtroopers instead of 6 in the deathstar, Vader's pointless arrival on the star destroyer in ESB, and taking out, "Bring my shuttle line," JediRocks, and the awful new ending to ROTJ that adds Hayden in it, and has JarJar and the whole galaxy cheering, etc.

By Lucas changing scenes he actually made a fan of the movies pick sides: Do you like the new Hayden or the old Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ? Do you like Greedo shooting first or Han shooting first? By doing that, he created two fanbases cause it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to like both! If Lucas redid some of the battle on Deathstar like the X-Wings leaving Yavin, or ObiWans new Hutt, or even the new Jawa Sandcrawler, that stuff is not jarring, and really doesn't change the movies one bit, a NEW ACTOR in the force ghost scene does!

The bottom line for me is Lucas went too far in changes, and actually turned a fan like myself, who grew up with the OOT, a person that could have liked the SE if were just subtle changes, to a hardcore OOT fan now because I just put my hands up. Lucas like the Emperor got greedy with the OT movies.
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I've always said that I would still like the SEs had they merely been given the status of an alternative version in comparison to the real films (the originals). Heck, even if George wanted to make the SEs definitive while still providing high-quality attention the originals, I'd at least be able to accept the SEs since I'd still have the versions I prefer. But, as it is, George declared war on anybody who thought the originals were magnificent works of art, and therefore, no, even a version with just upgraded special effects would piss me off at this point.

Originally posted by: MJR80
Please omit the "thet" in the previous post... I hate typos!


You can edit your own posts.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I think that it is irrelevant what changes were made - the main factor was making the original unavailable. Had he made both available, we'd all be glomming up every different version out there. Now, the hard core fans are just p.o.'ed, and we think twice before shelling out $ for yet another SW, when the original is still not properly released. Heck, if the original was treated as well as it should be, I wouldn't care if he made different versions with various changes, updates, rewrites, etc. In fact I'd probably find it interesting. As it is, I find it disgusting, which is unfortunate.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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I agree with CO. If the changes were just really small like fixing errors, tweaking special effects, etc. I would not be unsatisfied. But with all the crappy changes he has done (the worst being Greedo blasting a shot at all, droid and jawa slapstick, Jabba scene, Jedi Rocks, and the stupid Hayden force ghost),. it is a real problem. I also agree that if both the original versions and SE were out at the same time, a lot of fans would buy both versions (I would, but the originals wold be miles better any day).
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I saw all the SEs in the theaters when they came out, and I was excited about seeing each and everyone of them. I really liked them alot. Having been a fan of the old ones for so long, new extended footage and minor changes was a fun new way to experience the trilogy. As soon as they came on VHS I bought them. I had my faces set box set, and I have my SE set. They sat quite nicely together in the entertainment center. Now I generally hate the SE, and I cringe at the thought of it. Why? Because back then my faces box set and my SE set sat together quite nicely in the entertainment center. Now I have been told that I can only have the SEs take them or leave them. My VCR eventually died, and my old box sets were boxed away and placed in the basement, but there were no official DVDs anywhere to be seen, when there finally were they were exclusively the SE, eeerr, I mean, no they wern't, they were whole new versions all together, none of which I had ever seen before or had any fondness for. So why would I buy them?

I liked the SE. I really enjoyed them. It wasn't until I was told that the old films I grew up with "didn't exist anymore" that I started holding a grudge against them.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I've been saying for years that I don't care what George Lucas does to the OT - he can photoshop Orlando Bloom's face over Harrison Ford's for all I care, as long as the OOT is made available.

I saw the SEs in '97, and while I was happy for the opportunity to see them on the big screen again, the changes disturbed me enough to prevent me from enjoying them totally because I knew at the time that they were meant to replace the OOT. Even though I didn't own an LD player then, I still bought a set of the Faces LDs after seeing the SEs, because they were the highest quality release of the OOT and they were going out of print.

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Hmm, was there really an indication back then that they were going to replace the originals? I was clueless to that foul plot. I figured they would be like most director's cuts and be available both ways.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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The Faces tapes and discs were marketed under the "One Last Time" campaign.
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The original U.S. version of Blade Runner was never released on video at all (if I'm not mistaken) and won't be until later this fall when it will be included in the new dvd set. I saw the new final cut of the movie in New York City on Friday night and this is the second time the movie has been re-released theatrically. Where I'm going with this is maybe after the 3D theatrical releases of the Star Wars movies in '09 (or whenever) we'll finally get our remastered OOT.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
The Faces tapes and discs were marketed under the "One Last Time" campaign.


Yeah, but did any of us really take that seriousy back then? Back then it seemed more of a "the films are back in print, get them while you can before they disappear!" I even had a star wars novel display stand in my room (asked the bookstore if I could have it when they were done with it, since it was for trade paper backs it could nicely hold a large number of books ) that had the faces set Star Wars poster half Vader mask on it, with a pop up tie interceptor (yeah, made zero sense in the context of the SW poster in the back ground) that had the "One last time" slogan on it. For the few years that thing set in the corner of my room, I never once heeded that forboding warning of things to come.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Sluggo
The Faces tapes and discs were marketed under the "One Last Time" campaign.


That was all marketing to drive up demand as people would think, "Oh no, it is never going to be released on VHS again, I have to buy it now!" Lucasfilm pulled that same crap with the OOT DVD last year, saying it would only be sold for a limited time until December 31, 2006, and just yesterday I was at Best Buy and I see all 3 OOT DVD's sitting on the shelf.

We can all say Lucas is jerk, but the man is the ultimate businessman.

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Right on, CO! Lucas is both a jerk and a hypocrite. But he really does know how to work a business with his money making schemes. You are also right in how the 2006 DVDs are still around. I still see them available on amazon.com and at Barnes and Noble. That "it will be around until December 2006" quote seems to have been nothing more than a lie.
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Just because the DVD haven't all been sold doesn't mean LFL is being dishonest--"limited time" mean they are produced until a certain time, in this case the end of 2006, and then production ceases. The copies you see lying around are excess stock that was manufactured before 2007 but remain unsold on store shelves. In the same manner that the Faces sets were limited to 1995, but i remember as late as 1997 seeing them in bargain bins at Blockbuster. The remaining copies of the 2006 OOT will probably be bought up this holiday season but if you really looked I'm sure it will be not too difficult to find them into 2009.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Just because the DVD haven't all been sold doesn't mean LFL is being dishonest--"limited time" mean they are produced until a certain time, in this case the end of 2006, and then production ceases. The copies you see lying around are excess stock that was manufactured before 2007 but remain unsold on store shelves. In the same manner that the Faces sets were limited to 1995, but i remember as late as 1997 seeing them in bargain bins at Blockbuster. The remaining copies of the 2006 OOT will probably be bought up this holiday season but if you really looked I'm sure it will be not too difficult to find them into 2009.


Lucas knows that and that is where they are being dishonest to the public. But Joe Average who doesn't buy hundreds of DVD's a year doesn't know they will be there after Dec 31st, he just sees that ad on TV or in the newspaper, and scrambles in his mind that he has to buy them sometime or he will never have the chance again. It is a simple marketing ploy to drum up demand and scare the public that they must get this product in the next three months or else.

It is just like the 'Faces Set' and 'one last time.' Was it one last time? No, in 2006 was the supposed last time, and once BluRay or HD-DVD settle their war, there will be 'one last time' for 'one last time' so the public can buy it again one last time for the third time! As C3PO said, "I'm so confused!"

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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
The original U.S. version of Blade Runner was never released on video at all (if I'm not mistaken)
Do you mean the version with Ford's narration and the "happy" ending?

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I still have to side with LFL--"limited time until [insert date here]" is a common marketing gimmick, and it never means that literally all copies will be forcibly yanked from shelves after that date. It just means that production will cease, thus it is limited to that date. Disney does it all the time, for example, and in virtually every "limited time" sale it just means that no new copies will be produced after that date. With regards to Faces and the OOT, I have to side with LFL in the best-intentions motive, in that I truely believe that Lucas intended that they never be sold again, simply because that is what he wanted, and what he tried to do. That ad campaign ended up being inaccurate due to the 2006 release but that was unplanned, in effect we sort of forced their hand--had they been the ones to decide things they would have stayed true to their word. So, although technically they were in hindsight inaccurate, I still believe they were being honest, and thank god it didn't turn out to be true.

After the 2006 OOT release, their previous sales model was effectively destroyed--and I think they may have at least considered that suppressing the OOT forever was not a realistic option. I think that Lucas honestly believed that no one would ever want to bother with the OOT after the SE came out. But since all the backlash I think LFL realised that not only is there a market for the original, but that it represents a treasured classic that is in some ways bigger than them, ie all the bootlegs and fan-rips. Thats why I am 100% certain that it'll be released again, sometime, in higher quality--the sales model of 1995 is undone, and that means it has been reversed. But because of the percieved-rarity of the OOT they aren't outright admitting this--and I think this is wise, because with LFL things are never certain so they don't want to make any promises--so instead of saying "now its REALLY the last time" they are instead saying "this is a limited release."
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Originally posted by: Mielr
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
The original U.S. version of Blade Runner was never released on video at all (if I'm not mistaken)
Do you mean the version with Ford's narration and the "happy" ending?


You are mistaken. Blade Runner became one of the most popular video titles when it was released in 1982, and the directors cut did not exist until ten years later.
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It really pissed me the hell off that the first thing LFL decided to do upon launching the new flash interface for starwars.com on may 25th, 2007 was put up links to the "what has changed?" comparisons between the '04 dvd and the original versions when the damn non-anamorphic discs were supposed to only be available until the end of 2006 and never spoken of again! No, that's not enough for LFL, they have to keep reminding us even on the day of days that we can only watch the OT in acceptable quality so long as it's the revision and not the original.

I think what might really get the ball rolling, so to speak, is the release of Indy IV on home video next fall. Paramount has decided that all of their home video releases for the next 18 months will only be on dvd and hd-dvd but not blu-ray disc, but they explicitly stated that this does not apply to movies directed by Steven Spielberg of which Indy IV is one. However, if I remember correctly Indiana Jones is Lucas's property and Lucasfilm has decided to support blu-ray disc. So I'm betting this means we'll see it on all three formats and maybe then, who knows, maybe they'll decide to coincide that with the other Indy movies in high def and then Star Wars is only a year away just like 2003 with Indy on dvd and 2004 with Star Wars on dvd. Just pure speculation on my part but something to think about nonetheless.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
With regards to Faces and the OOT, I have to side with LFL in the best-intentions motive, in that I truely believe that Lucas intended that they never be sold again, simply because that is what he wanted, and what he tried to do.


See, I think the SE was a trial balloon, and I think Lucas was amazed that the movies did great business in 1997, and that is when he figured that EVERYONE loved them. In some respects I can't blame him for thinking that way, cause look at these grosses domestically:

ANH - 136 million
ESB - 67 million
ROTJ- 45 million

Alot of movies being released for the first time would kill for numbers like that! But what Lucas missed was that most OT fans who grew up with the movies were happy to just see SW again in the theaters, and the SE was cool and something new, but most would take Han Shooting first anyday of the week.

The same goes for the PT movies:

TPM - 431 million
AOTC - 310 million
ROTS - 380 million

Whatever we think of the PT movies, they did great business, so again, Lucas thinks that most SW fans loved the movies, cause if they sucked, the grosses would be significantly lower, just check out how Matrix Revolutions did as that literally bombed in November 2003.

What Lucas missed all the time is that we fans love our SW, good or bad, and are willing to show up to something new and always give it a chance, and that is the power of a GFFA, we can't get enough. But just because it does great numbers, doesn't necessarily mean we will love it, as ESB is the lowest grossing movie of the 6.

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Originally posted by: zombie84
You are mistaken. Blade Runner became one of the most popular video titles when it was released in 1982
Yeah, I was going to say that I have the Criterion LD of that version, but I wasn't sure if it was the US theatrical or European theatrical version. There are so many different versions of that movie, it gets confusing.




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Yea, my mistake on the Blade Runner thing. I've been trying to find out the deal with that for a while now, guess I didn't search far enough. The first I time I ever saw the movie at all was back in 2000 when the scifi channel showed the original version in letterbox and made quite a big deal about it since it was the first time in ten years that the original version had been shown on television. Looking at the wiki more closely now, it does say it was released on home video in '83 and apparently also in '92 right around the time the director's cut was released in theaters.
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Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Yea, my mistake on the Blade Runner thing. I've been trying to find out the deal with that for a while now, guess I didn't search far enough.

Have you checked out the Blade Runner thread at the Home Theater Forum? A lot of great info (72 pages worth- so far):
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