As for an isolated score, you are more than welcome to trying. In my other thread in the preservation area, I have a link to my complete score edits.
I have so far done Episode I, III, V, and VI. I've corrected a lot of the mistakes...
However, you may wish to hold off on downloading them. I've come into finding more material and been able to correct some of the things I did and make the tracks sound even better than before...
One such thing is I found the LP has the recording of "Rebel Fleet /Finale" from Empire that is the extended version, correctly mixed, where as the SE is incorrectly mixed. With these two, I can create a better sounding , correctly mixed version and replace the one on my set.
So again, I'll keep you all posted on that in the other thread.
I also took the liberty of emailing someone from Sony. I have a friend who has contacts everywhere... from Disney to Sony hehe...so I emailed the guy. Here is what I sent him:
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Hello,
My name is Bernard Kyer. I am emailing you on behalf of two rather large fanbases: The Star Wars fan base, and the John Williams Fan base, representing the three large online communities of Jwfan.net, OriginalTrilogy.com, and StarWars.com.
The problem that we would like addressed are the current releases--and non releases--of the complete scores to the Star Wars saga.
Currently, we know that SonyBMG has plans to release a 30th anniversary set entitled "The Music of Star Wars."
From what we know, this set is nothing but a repackaging of the Special Edition releases of the scores with some extras and 2 unknown discs.
As indebted as we are to Sony, Michael Matessino, and Eric Tomlinson as we the fans are, we have found that there is still a great disservice done to the fanbase through these sets.
Many fans waited since 1977 to get the complete scores to the films, and when the scores were released, eagerly bought them. Since then, many fans have enjoyed the set, but there is a growing group of fans who are becoming more and more disenchanted with the release.
The release to “A New Hope” is nearly perfect. There is little I can say is wrong with this release.
The releases of “Empire” and “Jedi,” however, require a lot of attention.
“Empire,” for instance, had two music editors during the remastering process: Eric Tomlinson and Brian Risner. Tomlinson was an excellent mixer, and his mixing on the score shines out.
Risner, however, is a failure in almost every aspect.
Every cue mixed by Risner has a fatal flaw: the horn channels are swapped.
Like the original RCA/Victor Anthology release which suffered from having let and right channels flipped on several of the Empire tracks on disc 4, the 1997 and subsequent 2005 releases of Empire has a similar but UN-FIXABLE flaw.
Unlike the Anthology, which with any simple editing program, you need but import the track and flip the channels, the Sony release as mixed by Risner cannot be fixed. Every other instrument is correct except the horns.
“Main Title,” for instance: this iconic track that is recorded for every film is incorrectly mixed in this way.
This may seem nitpicky, but it is a fault with the mixing, a MAJOR fault to John Williams’ vision, and to the memories of Star Wars fans everywhere. Especially since these are the “Definitive Editions.”
This is but one aspect of Risner’s mixing that is at fault. His mixing also lacks in its depth and width. The mixing is extremely narrow.
Perhaps two of the most iconic pieces from “Empire,” are “Imperial Walkers” and “The Imperial March.”
Both of these tracks suffer from flipped horn channels and incorrect mixing. The mix is so narrow, that in Imperial Walkers, the two pianos sound like a single piano in front! Ironically, in the Williams performance notes, he says “the more pianos the better” and yet in this release, the two loud pianos become a single entity because of faulty mixing.
Imperial March, the powerhouse piece of the saga sounds flat, and mono. The strings are nearly non existent and the exchange between instruments is lost at this level of mixing.
One such error is also in the mixing of the Harp and the celesta. In nearly every cue, Risner mixes these instruments into the center, instead of in the left/right channels respectively. This is not how classical music is mixed. This is not how John Williams music is mixed, and is a very noticeable error.
Listen to “Training of a Jedi Knight” on the SE and compare it to any other release. There should be a dialogue between the plucking of the upper strings in the left channel and the celesta in the right channel. However, the mixing is so narrow that it simply sounds like everyone is plucking and banging away.
“Jedi” however, has a plethora of errors. These errors are understandable, however, as the correct masters for Jedi could not be located for the release, HOWEVER, since then, the correct and supposedly complete masters have resurfaced.
The entire Jedi release suffers from great hiss removal and sounds dead to the ear, as if listened to through a woolen blanket.
Compare the track “Superstructure Chase” to the nearly identical cue from “A New Hope,” “Tie Fighter Attack” recorded nearly 10 years earlier with far smaller budget with less technology available in 1986, and with a smaller ensemble.
You find that Superstructure Chase sounds so muffled and muddled, that it’s almost not worth listening to.
Worse still are the missing pieces. As stated, some of the masters could not be located for the release, but have since been discovered. A cleaner, correctly mastered release is in order.
Also, and exhaustive search should be conducted for the lost masters of the Album Recording Sessions in which cues such as the Original Jabba the Hutts Concert Suite would be located, along with the plethora of source cues that are missing to this day that fans will pay greatly for.
Every person I’ve spoken to has said if this 30th anniversary release is truly just a repackage of the sony cd’s, they won’t buy it. But if the 2 unknown cd’s are the unreleased cues, they WILL pay the nearly $100 tab JUST for those TWO CD’s.
If that doesn’t tell you how much in demand this music is, I don’t know what will.
Equally so, the fans have said that if these Two CD’s are unreleased Prequel tracks, they will also pay that much just for them.
Which brings me to my next point: the prequel scores.
As a child who grew up with these films, and not the originals, and as a fan of John Williams, I must say that these scores are jems. My favourite score to this day is the Episode I score.
Sony has said that because of the dud “Ultimate Edition,” there are no plans for future releases of the complete Prequel scores. This is a travesty!
The Ultimate Edition is the only time I can think of (and I am an avid film score collector) where a score has been marketed as being a “Complete Release,” when in actuality, it is simply an “Isolated Score,” meaning that it is the music as heard in the film (with edits, omissions, and digital editing all in place), and NOT how the composer intended. This is fine for a DVD isolated track, but it is Unheard of as a CD release.
The failure of this release can be pinpointed to that fact.
If a proper, complete release that does the score justice (at least 3 CD’s including the alternates we KNOW exist for “Duel of the Fates,” “The Battle for Naboo,” etc) the fans will pay for these, and whatever Sony asks.
Equally, the complete scores to Episode II and Episode III are in great demand at this time. Everyone had high hopes that these scores would be at least expanded upon in this 30th Anniversary season, but the hopes are starting to dwindle.
There is a great demand as evident by threads on Jwfan.net, originaltrilogy.com, and even Starwars.com.
If Sony could releases these scores, the fans would defiantly shell out large sums of money (if they had been boxed in a 15 cd set, some have said they will pay $150 for them just to get the complete and corrected editions).
Sony is at a place right now where it is like no one in history, it is uniquely capable of releasing some of the most Iconic film scores of this century. You are literally sitting on the scores which have all been digitized and are available on your computer systems. They need but be mixed (PROPERLY) and released.
The fans will buy these sets. If Sony were to ask the fans, the answer would be undeniably “Yes!”
But the fans will NOT buy repackaged SE’s, and will not buy Ultimate Editions. The fans are more intelligent than that, and to assume otherwise would be an insult to fans.
Please, I ask of you, if you know of any way I can get in contact with someone about these releases, if you are not the correct person, I would be greatly indebted to you.
These scores are some of the most hotly sought after commodities. Certain pieces have leaked over the years, and the bootlegs online go for hundreds of dollars. You, as well as I, know that people will find ways to get what they want. Why not get in on that?
If Sony can release these scores properly, and be honorable and do them justice, then the fans will repay that honesty and will buy these sets and tell everyone to as well.
Again, thank you for your time. My reason in pointing out the errors in the sets is that too few people realize the extent of the errors, and the people who buy these scores love Star Wars and John Williams and the scores so much, that when they find out there are problems, they become knowledgeable and outraged. The knowledge is spreading across the fanbase and the cry for corrected and completed releases is growing in demand.
Thank you again for your time. I hope to hear back from you.
-Bernard Kyer
21, Daytona Beach Florida
Film Score Fan, Audiophile, John Williams Fan, Star Wars Fan, John Williams Fan
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I'll let you know what I get back from this, as well as another email I sent to Sony Customer service that ADigitalMan posted the link to.
This is that letter:
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As an avid John Williams fan and a fan of the Star Wars saga, I have to say this:
We need a proper release of the complete scores.
Sony has said before that they have no plans to release the complete scores to the prequel trilogy and no plans seem to be made to fix the Original Trilogy.
I formally would like to state that if Sony made a proper release, then people WILL buy the sets.
The Ultimate Edition for Episode I was not the complete score as it was marketed to be. Instead, it was (to my knowledge) the only time a score has been released edited to show what it sounded like in the film, and NOT the composers original intention. Because of this, most fans were angry and decided against buying it.
If it were released in complete form (at least 3 CD's), this would be a top seller guaranteed. The other Prequel scores also need a complete release.
As for the original trilogy, the currently available scores for Empire and Jedi are very poor in quality. One only need but compare a few Jedi tracks to A New Hope to hear how poor they sound, despite the fact they were recording nearly 10 years latter with far better equipment and funding.
Empire was also improperly mixed by Risner. Every track he mixed he flipped the Horn Channels, mixed the harp too close to the center along with percussion and celesta and made the overall mix almost Mono, removing the surround sound aspect to John Williams orchestrations and removing the power from "The Imperial March."
For a definitive release, these errors are inexcusable.
Also, the amount of material omitted from these "definitive releases" is staggering.
With the re-discovery of better Jedi masters, a new release including the COMPLETE scores, mixed properly, is in order.
I have made an outline of every error in the Empire and Jedi Sets:
Empire- Disc 1/Track 1 - Mixed by Risner (too narrow)
Empire- Disc 1/ Track 2 - Mixed by Risner so the horn channels are flipped
Empire - Disc 1/Track 3 - The synth is improperly mixed causing digital noise
Empire - Disc 1/Track 4 - This track could be cleaned up
Empire - Disc 1/Track 5 - Imperial Walkers to the end is mixed by Risner far too narrowly, horn channels are flipped, and the overall sound is poor
Empire - Disc 1/Track 6 - Mixed by Risner (too narrow, horn channels fliped)
Empire - Disc 1/Track 8 - Mixed by Risner (" ")
Empire - Disc 1/Track 9 - Mixed by Risner (" ") Harp is incorrectly in the center
Empire - Disc 1/Track 10 - Jedi Master Revealed mixed by Risner (" ") Harp incorrectly in Center
Empire - Disc 1/Track 11 - Mixed by Risner (" ") Harp in center as is the celesta
Empire - Disc 2/Track 1 - Mixed by Risner. (" ") The poorest mix ever released of this powerhouse piece. (Horns Flipped)
Empire - Disc 2/Track 2 - Mixed by Risner (" ") The poorest mix ever of this piece (Horns Flipped)
Empire - Disc 2/Track 4 - Mixed by Risner (too narrow, with harp incorrectly in the center with the celesta. Horn channels flipped)
Empire - Disc 2/Track 5 - The whole mix of this track is a bit off but the "City in the Clouds" portion mixed by Risner is horrible, with horns flipped, the choir far too loud and the harp in the center
Empire - Disc 2/Track 6 - Mixed by Risner (" ")
Empire - Disc 2/Track 10 - Mixed by Risner (" ")
Empire - Disc 2/Track 11 - "Hyperspace" is mixed by Risner so narrowly that the strings are almost mono, the horns are flipped, and the effect of the cue is lost completely.
Empire - Disc 2/ Track 12 - Mixed by Risner (" ")
Also, the alternate for both cues on track 12 ("Finale" and "End Credits" are ignored and not placed on the set).
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Errors from Return of the Jedi:
The entire score sounds muffled. This is in part due to the fact that the original masters for most of the score could not be located. They have seen been found and a corrected release is in order.
Rather than list every cue, just know that every cue has the ability to be remixed from better quality masters and should be done so since the mix is so poor on the release that almost every cue sounds muffled, lost, and muddy.
Also, an extensive search into where the still missing material is should be conducted.
The material missing from the SE includes:
Jabba the Hutt Concert Suite - Original Album Recording Session
Lapti Nek - Film
Lapti Nek - Film Instrumental
Lapti Nek - Album
Lapti Nek - Extended Album
Lapti Nek - Album instrumental
Lapti Nek - English
Max Rebo Band Song 1
Max Rebo Band Song 2
Unknown Joseph Williams Unused Source Cue
The Forest Battle Insert
Yub Nub (Choir)
Yub Nub (Ewok)
Yub Nub (Film)
Victory Celebration (Film)
Leia's News (Alternate)
The correct takes for cues such as "Superstructure Chase" should also be used in the mix as the one on the SE is not the correct take or is an incorrectly edited version of this cue.
Thank you for taking the time to look at my request. I realize there is a 30th anniversary set being released, and from the rumors I'm hearing, it will simply be a repackaging of the already available SE's which as I have shown here, need to be addressed.
Thank you and I would love to hear back from you
-Bernard Kyer (21, Florida)
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Again, if I get anything back I'll let you all know.