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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 46

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Originally posted by: C3PX
I would say Star Wars is really a classic rather than a pop-phenomenon. Sure it has a lot of baggage trailing behind it, and the vast majority of that baggage is crap. But honestly, who actually says Star Wars is their favorite movie? Who even watches Star Wars anymore? Everybody watches ESB, ROTJ, TPM, AOTC, and ROTS, they only watch Star Wars for good measure, but most would admit to it being slow and boring. But then there are those of us who watch Star Wars in the same way we watch Casablanca. If Star Wars was still only Star Wars, I don't think too many kids today would even care about it except for loyal sci-fi and film fans. I think Anchorhead has it right. Take away all the baggage and ignore it and you have a fantastic story. Keep all that baggage and you have a a pile of tripe you almost have to feel ashamed for even trying to like. Star Wars is a classic. I would even say that the original triology is a classic. The PT is simply a rash on the teet of the cash cow. Something that unfortunately hits every great work of fiction if it is too popular for its own good. Planet of the Apes, Star Wars, and the Lord of the Rings are three of my favorite stories in their original forms (film, film, and book respectively) that have way too much baggage attached to them that drag their quality through the mud. All three could be considered pop-phenomenea, but are also all undoubtably classics. In the end, the originals are still available and the baggage can be ignored. I think it is less rather than more that makes/will make these tales classics.


It could be the video quality of any release of ANH ever put out, fan or official otherwise.

I had just edited One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (which is also a "classic", like Star Wars, can be boring) last year in my English class, it was a sort of "book cut," I added some trippy effects to emulate the 60s psychedelic feel of the book, tried to work the Chief into the movie as a background narrator, like in the book, rather than a simple spectator, just seeing if I could do it, plus get some practice fanediting and get some school credit as well. Anyway, I was working off an old, nonanamorphic DVD of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest, so the quality was terrible, but I had to watch the film over and over, as it is with fanediting. So when my class watched the film as a follow up to the book, I thought I'd be really bored. But somebody brought in the new special edition DVD, anamorphic, color corrected, basically put together like any standard DVD release. I just watched the TV screen in utter amazement the whole time! I was completely enraptured by the film, all because of the quality of the video. The walls were white, there was no grain whatsoever, and the picture clarity was amazing. I was just into the film, though I'd watched it so many times--like--that week to get my project done. It's the same thing with something like maybe 2001: A Space Odyssey, who could watch--like--an old pan and scan VHS of that movie and show any interest at all? You need HD, you need to see the stars, read the labels on the ships, see each and every little detail.

Anyway what I mean is that we don't have a good looking Star Wars yet at all. The GOUT is basically like the old One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest DVD, and the proper DVD release, of course, is oversaturated, too dark, blue this, green that, and the annoying changes. There just isn't a proper way to watch it after we've all seen it soooo many times, as nerds will do. All I mean is, Star Wars is kinda slow as it goes into the second act, true, but it might be it just hasn't been seen right since 1977, so when you watch it, you just tune out.

Spaced Out - A Stoner Odyssey (five minute sneak peek)

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I grew up watching it on a pan and scan VHS and a fairly small sized TV screen, and I still loved it. I see what you are saying about how the low quality release hurts it, but the 04 DVDs don't look that bad do they? I have actually never even watched them all the way through, I never dreamed of purchasing them but I got curious one day, had a friend loan them to me and skimmed through them to all the new changes I had real about to see how bad they were. But since I only skipped to certain parts and spent no more than five minutes per film, I really didn't pay too much attention to the video quality. From what I hear kids love it with the cartoony new look.

Quality is nice, but I don't think it is all that necessary to enjoy a film. What it takes to enjoy it is appreciation of what it is, where it came from, and for who it was written. That is why I could enjoy 2001: A Space Oddysee just as well on a shiny new DVD as I could on an old VHS (if it is all I could get my hands on). That fact that my old Star Wars pan and scan VHS tapes look almost as good as the only DVD release they have gotten is pretty shameful though.

EDIT: And man are we off topic.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
I would say Star Wars is really a classic rather than a pop-phenomenon. ... I would even say that the original triology is a classic.

Forgive my less than clear statement. I meant that Star Wars (the series of movies) might have been classic. After all, George Lucas has stated many times that the (original) Star Wars movie was only a section of his story treatment.

After the third movie, he hedged his statements about what exactly was in his treatment, to include the additional three "pre-quel" movies. I think most of us recognize those as tack-ons. But if they were tacked on according to the "Bringing Back The Force" article, they would have been more essential to the Star Wars saga.

"why would Lucas suddenly rely [for the plot of the next 3 pre-quel movies] on what we 'know' will happen?"

If the fan-suggested plot twists and turns were followed, the entire series might have been magnitudes better, more entertaining, and (dare I say it?) classic.

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I agree with it, and your statement wasn't less than clear before, you were perfectly clear. I understood you quite well. I was expecting plot turns actually, and I really thought he was making a decently lousy excuse for one with the Sidious/ Palpatine thing, but then he kind of threw that away. I even thought he was making a twist with the killing of the younglings thing, the first time I saw the film I could not bring myself to believe George had Anakin turn to the Dark Side so easily and I really thought the youngling part was a trip out scene and that Anakin was going to get them to help him in somehow securing the Jedi Temple, and that he would fall to the Dark Side later over Padme. But the fact is in the here and now I really don't think it is neccessary to add more baggage too it, I think the most prudent solution is to cut away the garabage and settle for less as more. For me the prequel ship has sailed, a lot of good potential got watered down into skim milk for the sake of making a quick buck, rather than becoming the rich cream it should have and could have been. But yeah, I truely would have loved to have a six movie saga that I could enjoy watching from beginning to end. Instead I have two I throughly enjoy and one I enjoy partially, which is the way Star Wars has always been for me, so I am cool with it. It is hard to imagine how great the whole thing could have been if the last four were as good as the first two. Nothing would compare.

It is stupid that George decided he couldn't do any twist because we know what happens. Actually, we havent a clue what happens, we only know a few of the end results. We knew Padme died eventual, but it could have been years later when Leia was a girl for all we knew. We knew Anakin fell to the dark side, but we didn't know how. We knew Palpatine became emporer, but we didn't know how. And we knew Luke and Leia were twins and one ended up with the Lars family (but we didn't know how they were related) and we knew Leia ended up with the Organas, but we didn't know how. Only that Obi-Wan thought it important to hide them, but we didn't know how, or at least not the specifics of it. There was a ton of potential there. And seriously, if you are going to turn Obi-Wan into a blatant liar, he could have done it in a cool and more sly way. How would it have been if Obi-Wan would have actually had something going on with Padme. It could have changed his whole character in an interesting way (not saying I would have liked this, but it would added some dimension to the film). Or what if it actually turned out that Anakin was not the father, or that Luke and Leia were not twins after all. There could have been a lot of skeletons in a lot of peoples closets. There was plenty of room for plot twists. Even if they completely changed our conception of the old trilogy, it would have been worth it. I don't care if somebody is the biggest fan of the prequels, you cannot deny the fact that with the money they had to burn, and all the potential that they had, they no where near tapped into that potential.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Sluggo
All the things that the fans had been waiting to see were crammed into the last 10 minutes. No wonder the believability is shot to hell.

Here! Here! Sluggo said it.
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Boy, I really ought to watch my language!

So what do we got to do to get this project on the road? I'd love to start editing stuffs myself, but I am teh noob at the software. I've always been more of an idea guy. I have been working on an opening crawl for ROTJ based on some of the text supplied a bunch of pages back. It could work nice.
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I haven't heard from CC in a while, although I haven't been online as much lately to chat (which reminds me, I needed to send him some CDs...crap). He was going to talk to adywan about some stuff, and he mentioned that he was going to be working on some scripts to put out.

I'm really not sure where to go at this point. Was the plan still to do ROTS first? Hopefully SOTDS should be complete by next month, and that will be a help--if nothing else, it could generate sympathy from the Sen--excuse me, excitement and creative energy around here. I'm fairly confident it will turn out well.
Two-Face - A Batman:The Animated Series Movie
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I only read the first page of the thread, but I think the ideas posted are pretty blasphemous.

I've come to accept a few things:

1. The prequels are rubbish due to uninvolvement of people who actually challenged Lucas and pushed him to weave the great stories of the first trilogy: Kasdan (ESB and ROTJ), Marcia Lucas (ANH, ESB, ROTJ), Kurtz (ANH, ESB), Kirshner (ESB), and Richard Marquand (ROTJ)- among others like Coppola (whose apparent downfall in filmmaking was related to losing is supporting cast)

2. Knowing that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader when you watch Ep 4 pretty much takes all of the awesomeness out of the original trilogy. Even accepting the original episodes, the best way to watch them is the order they came out in.

3. Nobody is forcing me to accept the special editions, the 2004 editions, or the prequels. I can just live in my own lala land where they don't exist. I can have my own concept of what happens in episodes I, II, and III based off of what I believed they would be like before they even came out.


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Oh, what is this with Star Wars being boring? You've got to have a serious case of ADHD if you think that Star Wars is boring.
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Well, that's just super. Thanks for checking in.
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Originally posted by: GP
If the fan-suggested plot twists and turns were followed, the entire series might have been magnitudes better, more entertaining, and (dare I say it?) classic.

Couldn't agree more. Case in point, Lucas rewrote Star Wars lore for the PT which had originally been accepted as cannon prior to the PT.

From the book A GUIDE TO THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE, SECOND EDITION (copyright 1994): A solid black Rebel Insignia next to the entry for "Jedi Master" denotes that the information was drawn from an original Lucasfilm source such as the films, the radio dramas, or the original novelizations. The entry reads:

"The most powerful Jedi Knights eventually evolve into Jedi Masters. Jedi Masters are teachers and miracle-workers of extreme power and ability. Jedi Masters have moved beyond the need for weapons such as lightsabers, preferring to depend solely on the Force to give them strength[my emphasis]. The Jedi Master Yoda trained Luke Skywalker after the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi. [ESB]"

"[ESB]" denotes that the sources for this info are the film EMPIRE STRIKES BACK and its novelization.

I've looked in an updated edition of this book, and the entry has been changed to eliminate this idea from Star Wars history.

Alright. Enough preaching to the choir.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
Boy, I really ought to watch my language!

ANH. Owen: "...or there'll be hell to pay."

ESB. Han: "Then I'll see you in hell!"

I guess you're not really out of line here (if Star Wars is our moral guide).

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I was wondering if I could get ahold of the full Episode 1 script that is password protected on the starkiller ranch website? I would love to read it. Thanks.


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Heyo, boyos!

I'm back, and this time I've got something to show you guys. The first of many things I hope. Now, this doesn't mean this project is back "in production," but at the very least ideas will once again flow in Starkiller Ranch.

Life has been going full speed ahead for me lately, with school, work, and then of course life itself and all that it entails. Anyway, as it stands the project is up for grabs. Whoever has the time, knowledge, and resources is free to take over. The way I see it is, where I am right now I am unable to give my all to the project, and as we've discussed many times, if it doesn't look professional, then what's the point. Tsha222's post (http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=12&threadid=8280) caught my attention, so if he's interested in coming on board then he's more than welcome.

But as I referenced before, I've got something to share:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYTPFkMBSWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFacxLBy9qE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaawXXldGg8
This is my "rough draft" of how Episode III's end duels should go down. As I explain in my YouTube profile, I intend to post a lot of Starkiller Ranch clips, so there's definitely more to come. And just as a disclaimer, these will for the most part be rough edits with bad sound mixes, created only to "get the point across." So please, watch them with an open mind. It's all about potential at this point.

Although I haven't posted much recently, I've still been lurking around and it was GoodMusician's latest work that really made me decide if the Ranch was ever to be resurrected, now would be the time. Kudos to him and the work he's doing on his edit, though I'm taking a different approach from him (as evidenced in my clips). I don't have time at the moment to go into detail on the hows and whys of my edits, but I'll get back to you guys as soon as I can. May the discussion resume...
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And now for a breakdown of the end duels videos:

-I resequenced the Anakin/Obi-Wan talk leading up to the duel so that it flows like a real conversation. The music had to be changed to accomodate these edits, and I used some that felt appropriate to the scene. I'm not sure what music would accompany a final version, but it would be something along these lines.
-New music for the Yoda/Palpatine confrontation. This all comes from the Throne Room in RotJ, with a hint of the Force Theme for Yoda, and then of course a strong rendition of the Emperor's Theme when Palpatine zaps Yoda.
-I combined two sections of the Yoda/Palpatine fight here, as it seemed to flow much better this way. Deleted silly lines ("My little green friend," "And not short enough it was.") and silly shots (Yoda opening his eye). I left in the original music at the start of the duel b/c I couldn't find or think of anything to replace it, but that's definitely something that needs to be changed.
-I messed up trying to edit out Obi-Wan and Anakin's "hand hold," and now it appears as some missing frames. But that needs to go (too cheesy, IMO).
-In one of my favorite edits, I cut from them fighting by a console to much later in the duel when their sabers hit a control pannel turning off the "lava sheids." This cuts out some stupid stuff in the duel (the saber twirling, the super force push). We also lose the table-choke, which I like, but it doesn't really fit in the flow of the fight.
-The transition into "Duel of the Fates" starts because I wanted to sync up the crescendo of the piece with the wide shot of the Chancellor's podium rising in the senate. It also continues to work well with the rest of this part of the duel.
-I wanted to cut out some of Anakin and Obi-Wan's bridge-crossing (including the stupid flying droid), but I needed it to pad things out to sync up with DotF.
-Some resequenced shots now has Anakin's punch flows naturally. I have no idea why this was edited the way it was originally. (As an aside, I wish I could use some of the behind the scenes footage from the DVD with Anakin and Obi-Wan punching and kicking each other more. I don't know if it could be made to match the film footage though.) Another personal favorite edit is the big crescendo of DotF syncing up with Anakin and Obi-Wan grappling in front of the volcano.
-In RotS, DotF was present in this next section of the Yoda/Palpatine fight, but it felt cut-and-paste without anything syncing up. I've tried to make it flow better with the music. Also, in the big force lightning explosion, I've tried to make it look as if Palpatine overpowers Yoda and thinks he's won.
-When the crane falls into the lava I've overlayed ESB music b/c it syncs up well with the visuals. Not sure if it's the way to go for sure, but I like it better than the original.
-The Palpatine/Stormtrooper conversation has "Then he's no dead" edited out. This goes further to show that Palpatine thinks Yoda is dead (killed in a similar way to Mace).
-In the final section of my clip, I've come up with what I think its the best option regarding Anakin's injuries. Having him fall over the "waterfall" has its appeal, but then you lose the entire conversation with Obi-Wan. That's a must-have, IMO. But the lava surfing, the dialogue with it, and the eventual "You underestimate my power!" jump all leave much to be desired. Having Obi-Wan jump from the crane to the gound, and Anakin follow (resulting in his dismemberment), works very well, IMO. "Battle of the Heroes" carries this scene along, and the final two strong beats of the music accent Obi-Wan's chopping-up of Anakin, and transition well into the somber music to come.

So those were my thoughts on making these edits. Basically it was me just doing what I thought would best improve a mediocre sequence. A lot of stuff is sketchy, but this is the direction I'd take if I were to sit down and edit this "for real."
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That was great, CC! I am so glad you changed the music around. I can nto stand Battle of the Heroes. It is nice only haveing it at the end. Also, I feel the change in music and resequencing of shots really helped the two duels flow into each other better. One of the problems I have with the original is that it felt to episodic. You would watch Anikan and Obi-Wan duel and then you would switch to Sidious and Yoda dueling and it was like they had been waiting for the audience to show up befor ethey went at it again. It didn't feel like the two duels were actually happening at the same time. Now does. I also like how you have Obi-Wan jump straight to the bank, and Anikan jumping after him. It really does improve the duel. Keep up the good work!


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You can't stand Battle of the Heroes?! BLASPHEMY!!!! I like it.

There are some very cool concepts here, CC. I've wished the Emperor's Theme was used for the Yoda vs. Palpatine duel since Day One, so it was cool to see that used here. If we could eventually get to the place where the Imperial March isn't in any Yoda/Palps scenes, that would be the best. If I were choosing, though, for the Emperor's first shot of lightning at Yoda, I would've tried to use the music from The Battle of Endor II (on the Special Edition 2-disc release) at roughly 2:34-2:44. That just always seemed perfect for me. I also love that you put the two office scenes together into one. It flows wonderfully!

One thing about the office duel: it's been said before, I believe, and I agree, that the lightsaber tipping shot (at about 2:38 or 39 on your clip) should go. It looks ridiculous.

Great job with cutting straight to them hitting the console and leaving the room. That gets rid of one of the worst shots in the duel (character wise) where it looks like Obi-Wan's about to impale Anakin on the table. Grates on me every time. Good solution!

If we can paint out that little droid (what in the name of crap was he thinking?!!), that would be the best case scenario, as that's a pretty nice shot in the crossing. I also liked where you were going with the transition at the clash in front of the volcano going to Yoda landing on the Senate pod. Very cool. I would personally like to explore the possibility of having more specific music for the Senate duel, including the Emperor's Theme and possibly Yoda's Theme, but thus far, it's pretty cool. Your syncing works much better, for instance, when Yoda throws the senate pod at Palpatine.

Speaking of which, one shot that I think we should try to rework in some way is the one from 2:24-2:27 on your clip, where Yoda catches the pod. It looks SOOO much like a computer constructed shot in the way it moves down to him that it's disgusting. Especially given the goal of the Ranch, I think this shot needs fixing.

It's pretty cool the way you cut it so Yoda doesn't hang on at all, he just falls. Did you have anything else in mind for the musical transition back to Anakin and Obi-Wan, though?

Not sure about the ESB music on the falling crane section, but there are some interesting syncs, to be sure.

BTW, I think the chunk at 0:41-0:54 on your clip would be a good place for new dialogue, if we were able to go that route, and having Obi-Wan trying to reach out to Anakin.

I was surprised at how well it worked to have Obi-Wan jump from the crane to the bank. Very cool! Unfortunately, in doing that, you lose some good character moments, such as the "Don't try it." In your clip, it seems very sudden for Obi-Wan to just chop off Anakin's limbs like that--kind of cold-blooded, given his actions up until that point. But with some of the other dialogue that was there originally, there's more indication of Obi-Wan formulating and dealing with the idea of stopping the duel that way, if you see what I'm saying.

I'm going to do my best to make a rough cut of my ideas soon. It'll be hard, as my ideas are a bit more high maintenence (dubbing, painting, etc.), but I'll try to get at least some of the cuts right. Don't hold your breath, but hopefully I'll be able to make a test or two soon.

Definitely some interesting ideas, and we should certainly get some discussion going. Good work!













Two-Face - A Batman:The Animated Series Movie
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It is great to see the lights on at the Ranch again!
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Just my opinion, maybe the Ranch should be scaled back to focus all the big changes on 2 movies: Episode 2 and Return of the Jedi. They seem to be the ones that could stand to benefit the most, and the heavy lifting on 2 seems to be already done . I think the other 4 movies will be very tough to get a clear consensus on what the "mission" would even be. Maybe just make a few token changes to those (pick 5-10 popular, do-able, subtle changes from a list and call it a day)

In that vein, maybe adding endor and the early superstructure of Death Star 2 to the shot in Star Wars when the cruiser first arrives for the conference. (In other words, implying that there were always 2 death stars in various stages of construction at Endor, so that it doesn't come out of left field in Jedi.)
So, we could have say, "Phantom Menace voting week"-for a week everybody can list one-sentence changes. Starting with number 1. Then a poll to pick the top ten. Democracy in action.
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Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
Just my opinion, maybe the Ranch should be scaled back to focus all the big changes on 2 movies: Episode 2 and Return of the Jedi. They seem to be the ones that could stand to benefit the most, and the heavy lifting on 2 seems to be already done.


The heavy lifting is very much done. The video is almost completely encoded and final sound mixing has already begun. Expect to see SOTDS in the very near future.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Hey guys,

This has nothing to do with the Ranch project, but it's a fun little video I did over the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-2tTMU973E
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Hey guys,

This has nothing to do with the Ranch project, but it's a fun little video I did over the weekend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-2tTMU973E


That is awsome, CC! I would like for you to do stuff like this more often.


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That was a kick in the head.
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Thanks for the kind words, guys. Like I said on YouTube, non-linear editing is my true editing hobby, although I do dabble in linear editing on occasion, like this project. In addition to a lot of personal stuff I film myself, I have a handful of superhero-related videos of this same nature I can upload if you guys are interested. I do have another Star Wars one I did a while back, but it's of a more serious nature.

Most of my videos are over 100 MB though, so if someone would be so kind to instruct me on how to compress them for YouTube upload, I would appreciate it.