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Darabount rips Lucas over Indy IV script — Page 2

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Before anyone busts a load all over Darabont, I hasten to remind them of his involvement with the following:

Elm Street 3
The Blob
The Fly II
Young Indiana Jones
Frankenstein

Sure, Shawshank and Green Mile were nice movies with great scripts, but by my count 2 great screenplays out of a mound of shit does make a great filmmaker.

I respect people's opinions that Indiana Jones IV will suck, you're certainly entitled, but Darabont hasn't exactly turned water into wine, right?

Given his involvement with the execrable Young Indiana Jones series it almost seems to me that he felt entitled to write a movie since he was in that "inner circle" and it sounds like sour grapes.
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Cassidy, you may be 100% right that Darabounts script may be shit, and that he is being childish about the whole issue of Indy IV, but I still say there is a larger issue here that someone who is a colleague of George Lucas, came out AGAINST him, and nobody has ever done that. In fact it is rare in hollywood for anyone to criticize a fellow director, writer, producer, cause they are all one big club and when they do an interview, they are the ultimate politicians, and never say anything bad. As I said when I posted the topic, it wasn't what was said by Darabount that suprised, it was the fact that it was said in the first place, and in hollywood, someone being honest is very rare.
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CO, I totally get what you're saying and I agree that it is very rare for someone in Darabont's position to publically air his dirty laundry like that.
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"Indy 4 has barely a year for shooting; this is probably not a good sign"

You're kidding right? It won't take Lucas any time at all to film this movie:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mebejedi/Indy4.gif

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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That is, by far, the funniest thing ever posted on this forum.
VADER: Let me look on you with my own eyes...

LUKE: Dad, where are your eyebrows?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_S6UgkQk0
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Geez, Darabont was asked a question and answered honestly. Lucas is a grown man, he can handle it.
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Darabont could've easily stayed away from all this angst if he wasn't a writer for hire. I mean, seriously, get over it already. Spielberg liked it, Darabont, of course, liked it but Lucas, the creator, didn't. It's his and Steven's baby. Is Lucas just suppose to shut up just because Darabont think it's the greatest script ever?

Lucas' opinion matters just as much as Frank's and Steven's. In the end, his ego is really, really starting to show, since this has been a non-issue for a few years now.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mebejedi/Indy4.gif


That is fucking hilarious!!

Well done, MBJ.

Forum Moderator
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That picture kicks ass, MBJ!

Hmm, in all seriousness, based upon George Lucas' #1 concern since the box-office results of Empire, he probably didn't like the script because it was too sophisticated. Most notably when it comes to Indiana Jones, he prefers simple stories that keep the action moving and don't bother with anything else.

But, that's coming from someone who's not a huge fan of the series or even Raiders. I like all of the Indiana Jones movies, since they're incredibly fun to watch, but they have nothing deeper for my mind to latch onto and that's what I usually return to movies for.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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LOL...it's not mine, but I do love it so.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Well, Lucas keeps screwing people over. When you screw people over, it makes them mad.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Jumpman
Darabont could've easily stayed away from all this angst if he wasn't a writer for hire. I mean, seriously, get over it already. Spielberg liked it, Darabont, of course, liked it but Lucas, the creator, didn't. It's his and Steven's baby. Is Lucas just suppose to shut up just because Darabont think it's the greatest script ever?

Lucas' opinion matters just as much as Frank's and Steven's. In the end, his ego is really, really starting to show, since this has been a non-issue for a few years now.


Lucas's ego is starting to show too; Spielberg is the DIRECTOR and it was two to one. Maybe you're right; maybe Darabont's script sucked and Lucas made the right choice. Oh, and Philip Kaufman created Indy too, and no one has asked him anything. But seriously, I think that Lucas's autocracy is really starting to tick off a lot of the people who work with him. Sure, he's within his rights to do these things, but that doesn't mean that people have to like them.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Mike O,

The problem is still Frank. Lucas hasn't said one thing about Darabont's script in public...not one. He's kept his mouth shut and decided to go into a different direction....with Spielberg's approval (no matter Spielberg's true feelings on the situation). Frank has been going on and on about his script for years now. It's time for him to get over it. What's the point of harping on it again, even if he was just asked a question....?

Frank just needs to let it ago. All he had to do when asked by Lucas if he wanted to write the script or not was to decline it. This is what happens when you're a writer for hire. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. End of story, really.




Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike O,

The problem is still Frank. Lucas hasn't said one thing about Darabont's script in public...not one. He's kept his mouth shut and decided to go into a different direction....with Spielberg's approval (no matter Spielberg's true feelings on the situation). Frank has been going on and on about his script for years now. It's time for him to get over it. What's the point of harping on it again, even if he was just asked a question....?

Frank just needs to let it ago. All he had to do when asked by Lucas if he wanted to write the script or not was to decline it. This is what happens when you're a writer for hire. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. End of story, really.


Lets give that writer for hire alittle more credit, since he did do that movie The Shawshank Redemption, and I think a very underrated The Green Mile. Sure Darabount is a writer for hire, but he is more then some slub on the street that Lucas/Spielberg was looking for, this guy has a reputation.

The bottom line is George does what he does, and he has the power to do that, and that sad irony is that it is his ultimate unduing because it is exposing his flaws that not many OT fans ever even thought from 77-83. I want to reiterate the man was God to me until after I saw AOTC, and I realized this is two turkeys he has wrote and directed, WTF? The PT is more George Lucas then the OT is now when it is all said and done, and that is the main reason why it is inferior. Lucas legacy to his fans is tarnished no matter what anyone says, because you ask 95% of SW fans before 1997, they would defend George to wits end, now I shake my head and say, "Here we go again."

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CO,

How is it his ultimate undoing....just because they say the Prequels are inferior to the Originals? That's not factually correct. That's subjective.

For the life of me, I don't understand how this guy, George Lucas, gets the hate that he does. All he basically did was say that these are the versions I prefer...this is what I want.... That's all he's basically done to receive the hatred he gets. And, that's pretty freakin' sad, if you ask me....

...and his legacy is tarnished in the eyes of SOME fans...not all.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

How is it his ultimate undoing....just because they say the Prequels are inferior to the Originals? That's not factually correct. That's subjective.

For the life of me, I don't understand how this guy, George Lucas, gets the hate that he does. All he basically did was say that these are the versions I prefer...this is what I want.... That's all he's basically done to receive the hatred he gets. And, that's pretty freakin' sad, if you ask me....

...and his legacy is tarnished in the eyes of SOME fans...not all.



Jumpman, putting aside what you and I think of the PT movies, can you honestly say to me that Lucas reputation as a filmaker is better or worse then it was before 1999? Please answer Yes or No.

I am not saying he is a hack, and if anyone does then I disagree, but I am just saying that you have to look at the PT movies objectively an notice what flaws Lucas has as a filmaker. The man has great ideas, and he tells great story, and has a vision that few possess in Hollywood, that is what makes SW great. He is not a great writer, he even said it at the AFI Tribute to himself, "I am the king of wooden dialogue!!!" He is not a great director for the type of movies he was making in the PT.

If you look at his successes in the 1970's, they were Star Wars & American Graffitti, two movies that don't require hugely dramatic scenes to carry the movie. The characters in both movies are very typical, and don't have too much depth to them, at that is both movies greatest strengths, they have just enough of all the little things to make the movie great.

In the PT, Lucas tried to have these hugely dramatic scenes that contrasted the OT movies of fun, wild ride, and they failed because the dialogue was terrible and the acting was just as bad. Lucas did not direct ESB & ROTJ, so his only claim to fame as a director in the OT as a director was SW, and that movie is the epitome of a serial-type movie, just like Indiana Jones, where you get to know the characters, but not too much, and that is where Lucas shines.

When i say his legacy is tarnished, there is no denying that George Lucas was looked upon as a god by many fans and colleagues before 1999, and that was the point of my original thread, there is NO WAY Darabount would have done this pre-1999, Lucas was untouchable then. Now maybe Lucas got TOO much credit for the OT from fans like me giving him God status, but perception is reality sometimes in life, and Lucas will always be regarded as the creator of SW, and that puts him on a pedestial for greatness, but he is also the creator of the PT, which knocks him down a peg.
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I agree with you Jumpman--Darabont was hired as a writer, he wrote a screenplay and they didn't use it. Such is the life of a writer for mega-budget summer blockbusters. It is true that if Speilberg was excited to go and shoot that script right on the spot that Lucas probably should trust his director but ultimately it boils down to Darabont not being used to the process of writing. For him, he is simply used to getting his way for his projects because he is a pretty powerful guy that is usually allowed creative freedom to have his way. The same is assuredly true of Lucas as well, but its merely a clash of egos and Lucas is the one that hired him--if he says no, then he says no. Producers hire and reject writers on a pretty regular basis for this type of thing.

This really has nothing to do with prequels or whether or not Lucas is still talented. He is the executive producer, he is the one doing the hiring and firing and if an executive producer wants something changed--whether it is Lucas or anyone else--usually they win because they are one calling the shots.
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CO,

Of course his reputation as a filmmaker is in the toilet after the Prequels...even if I feel it's totally unwarranted...and if you look at the dregs that Hollywood puts out year in and year out compared to the Prequels.

And as for the credit for the Originals, it actually works in reverse now. It seems the on going thing now is to take credit away from the guy just because of what people think of the Prequels and that's totally unfair to do so.

Where's the balance with this guy? To me, he's never been infallible. But compared to a lot of people in the industry who think they know cinema, the guy's got them dead to rights....

I mean, criticize him for his writing and directing, which he's well aware of (even if everyone tends to go overboard in those two departments) but think about where cinema would've been had this guy not continued to push...





Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Relax, nobody hates George, don't lump a tiny handful of hysterical people with the rest of us. Some people just think his "my vision" line is bullshit. If he was so concerned with presenting his vision, why are the old versions currently in every Target in the country, and the fugliest, most outdated discs in the store, to boot? ("because the fans never specified they wanted it to look like a normal dvd, blah blah, he can never make you people happy")

About Darabont, you can't slam the guy for being passionate. Who wants writers to just be dispassionate hired stenographers? Yeah, that'll really make for great scripts.
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Guy,

Which is the truth. If Lucas did go back and remaster the theatrical version, I'd bet everything I owned that the complaining wouldn't stop...and you know I'm right....
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: JumpmanCO,

Of course his reputation as a filmmaker is in the toilet after the Prequels...even if I feel it's totally unwarranted...and if you look at the dregs that Hollywood puts out year in and year out compared to the Prequels.

And as for the credit for the Originals, it actually works in reverse now. It seems the on going thing now is to take credit away from the guy just because of what people think of the Prequels and that's totally unfair to do so.

Where's the balance with this guy? To me, he's never been infallible. But compared to a lot of people in the industry who think they know cinema, the guy's got them dead to rights....

I mean, criticize him for his writing and directing, which he's well aware of (even if everyone tends to go overboard in those two departments) but think about where cinema would've been had this guy not continued to push...



CGI is what he has pushed, and to me is the downfall of action/fantasy movies over the past 15 years. I will give Lucas/Spielberg all the credit in the world for the great movies they made in the 70's & 80's, but unfortunately their success spawned the advent of the CG generation of movies with zero story, zero substance, and all in the wow factor, and I don't mean Lucas & Spielberg movies per say.

Every filmaker who makes these summer blockbusters today forgets what made the Spielberg/Lucas era movies great: Characters. I talked about this in an earlier post, but the CG has ruined the summer blockbuster, because it is the #1 focus by every filmaker, and even Lucas fell into that trap with the PT.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard that Lucas couldn't do the PT without the advent of CGI, and I say Bullshit! Spielberg made a remote controlled shark work and that movie is a classic, Lucas was able to create Cloud City, without all the spiffed up SE 'outside' looking views, and nobody complained back in 1980 that Cloud City wasn't cool enough looking. NOBODY CARED about the outside of Bespin, it was the story and the characters that made the movie great, not the visuals, they were just gravy.

CG should be a tool, not a crutch, and unfortunately people took the wrong things from the Lucas/Spielberg successes of SW/Indiana Jones/Jaws, etc. those movies were sold on the story & characters, not on the special effects.

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Jumpman, how can you presume to know the reaction of EVERY person who just wants those old movies treated right, including me? If the originals were restored, this website's entire purpose for being created would be gone, so surely SOME of this extremely awful complaining would stop. And it's not like Lucas is some delicate porcelain doll who can't be criticized.
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Oh not this again. If some rare fans will continue complaining no matter what George Lucas does, then why on earth should that matter to you, Jumpman? Can't you simply ignore those kinds of unreasonable people?

Or, as I think the actual truth is, do you simply have trouble dealing with certain arguments and, as a result, seek to discount all critics of George Lucas as one big generalized group? I know that lumping the crazies in with principled fans makes it easier to win debates in your own mind, but to me it looks like you're avoiding the issues. Basically, stop making unfair generalizations about us and argue for your own points of view. If you believe George Lucas should get more credit among fans than he does, then argue for that point of view and be ready to answer objections from people like me who think George is idolized too much by the Star Wars fandom.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Jumpman
For the life of me, I don't understand how this guy, George Lucas, gets the hate that he does. All he basically did was say that these are the versions I prefer...this is what I want.... That's all he's basically done to receive the hatred he gets. And, that's pretty freakin' sad, if you ask me....


You're right. So I'll watch the version I want and he can watch the version he wants in high quality and we'll both be happy. Oh, wait. That's right. I can't. That's why. Really, everything could meet halfway.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: JumpmanGuy,

Which is the truth. If Lucas did go back and remaster the theatrical version, I'd bet everything I owned that the complaining wouldn't stop...and you know I'm right....


Lets see the site is called, "Original Trilogy.com" its purpose is to get the OOT out in the best possible quality on DVD, and make sure that it does not get lost in the future of SW fandom. We've succeeded on point #2 that Lucas was forced to do an about face and release something he said was dead in the water, and now we just have to get them to DVD quality, or in the future HD-DVD quality.

So Jumpman, I don't understand why you would come to this site and not expect anything less? It would be like myself going to www.PrequelTrilogylovers.com and wondering why there was so much gushing going on about the PT?