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.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *) — Page 56

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Originally posted by: C3PX
Originally posted by: LexX
Btw does X0 have Episode IV in the beginning?


Yes, since it is a transfer of the laserdisc. Before the GOUT we only had fan reproduced 1977 opening crawls.


We've tossed around the idea of putting in a generated crawl, either in addition to the regular crawl, or on a later, modified release.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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This is all pretty amazing. Is this evidence that even back in 1993 Lucas was already toying with the idea of permanently altering the movies? Or could this be some sort of accident in the transfer process?
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They have been being tweaked since the very beginning. Long before 1993. The change in the crawl is evidence of this. Only before 1997 no one really noticed the changes too much, and most of those who did didn't see them as too big of a deal. The 1997 special edition seemed like a cool idea, but I don't think any of us were expecting it to be the "death" of the films as we knew them.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Red5
Could it not be that those scenes were simply brightened during the JSC LD tansfer process back in 1986, and it is the '93 version that is closer to the original?
As others have said, the countless other sources including location photos point to the fact that these scenes were shot in daylight. Comparing other shots between the JSC and the DC/GOUT, there is a definite color difference as far as hue and saturation are concerned. But these two scenes clearly have more differences than that. I'm 99.9% convinced that GL had this done deliberately for the THX LD release.

These aren't the only differences between the two versions either. There are other changes to the film in the '93 version I may point out another time.

Originally posted by: LexX
Btw does X0 have Episode IV in the beginning?

Yes, we have toyed with doing an EditDroid type thing where you can choose which crawl to watch, but we haven't decided anything yet. If nothing else, we will use the "A New Hope" version from the LDs.

BTW, I don't care what anyone else says, but the crawl on the GOUT is the original crawl, not a recreation.

My Projects:
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Originally posted by: Zion

BTW, I don't care what anyone else says, but the crawl on the GOUT is the original crawl, not a recreation.


If that's the case, would you rip the crawl from the DVDs or just create your own? Perhaps the documentary that came with the first DVD release?

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Originally posted by: Zion
Originally posted by: Red5
Could it not be that those scenes were simply brightened during the JSC LD tansfer process back in 1986, and it is the '93 version that is closer to the original?

As others have said, the countless other sources including location photos point to the fact that these scenes were shot in daylight. Comparing other shots between the JSC and the DC/GOUT, there is a definite color difference as far as hue and saturation are concerned. But these two scenes clearly have more differences than that. I'm 99.9% convinced that GL had this done deliberately for the THX LD release.


I did actually know that the scenes were shot in daylight but thanks for the rest of the info

I am surprised and really can't beleive GL would bother with deliberate changes in the THX release, considering how worn and noisy the print were at that time. Although maybe the worn print actually were the main reason for some of the 'deliberate creative' changes.

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"Lucas said in the '97 SE interview he had been toying with the idea of redoing the first film for quite a while. Only with then recent developments did he start to think it would be possible."

He did only want to change ANH, but Fox gave him money to fix up ESB and ROTJ and repackage the whole deal.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Zion
BTW, I don't care what anyone else says, but the crawl on the GOUT is the original crawl, not a recreation.

<yoda>I agree.</yoda>

I think the selectable crawl is the way to go. It'll be a great touch, and using the GOUT original crawl will even be an improvement over the Edit Droid version. I really hope you'll do this. Why the GOUT didn't do it is just one more thing that escapes me.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Originally posted by: Zion
BTW, I don't care what anyone else says, but the crawl on the GOUT is the original crawl, not a recreation.


I am sure this has been covered again and again and I somehow managed to miss it, but do you happen to know or have a theory on what the source for the crawl that appears on the GOUT? None of the LDs ever used the "A New Hope"less crawl did they? I had always assumed it was a recreation because it seems like that would be the easiest way to go, rather than editing in some other material. Is the crawl in Empire of Dreams a recreation? Or is it also authentic? Feel free to ignore these questions if this subject has been exhusted before. If my curiosity on the matter gets too strong I can always just skim back through posts from last September.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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The single contribution of any note made to this board by our friend Boris proved (in)conclusively that this indeed was the original crawl. I believe it came down to a single speck of dust on one frame.

Zion might remember better, but there is a thread somewhere which goes into this issue in more depth.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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My theory is that it's a straight telecine from the original film. When it was done, who knows. I believe the EOD crawl is original as well. I remember zombie had some info on that way back when. I can't remember what I found when I compared the two, but the GOUT crawl lines up exactly with the '77 telecine - stars, wobble and all.

Edit: I don't really remember what Boris did to back up his theory, but I do remember that most of us were convinced it was a generated crawl - myself included. But I did my own research and lined up the GOUT crawl with my copy of the old crappy '77 telecine DVD. When I squished the GOUT to match the aspect ratio of the old VHS transfer, they wobbled exactly the same, and specks of dust and scratches in the film were in the same place.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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It was originally surmised that the GOUT crawl was re-created based on the trailer that came out before sept 2006--inevitable, it ended up being that the EOD crawl that it was being compared to was simply such a poor transfer that not all detail was visible, thus inconsistencies appeared which actually weren't inconsistencies at all. Someone speculated that theres fake gate weave but to me this is pure heresay--its the real deal as far as i am concerned. Where LFL got this from is the real question--a telecine was already done for EOD but this is clearly different than that one, and based on the much better sharpness and fidelity it appears to be a newer one as well.
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What Boris showed was that there was a star or two that showed through the lettering of the crawl. That is a tell-tale sign of a composite and wouldn't be present on a cg recreation. I've got his pic somewhere arund here...
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Here's some of the conjecture.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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Originally posted by: zombie84
It was originally surmised that the GOUT crawl was re-created based on the trailer that came out before sept 2006--inevitable, it ended up being that the EOD crawl that it was being compared to was simply such a poor transfer that not all detail was visible, thus inconsistencies appeared which actually weren't inconsistencies at all. Someone speculated that theres fake gate weave but to me this is pure heresay--its the real deal as far as i am concerned. Where LFL got this from is the real question--a telecine was already done for EOD but this is clearly different than that one, and based on the much better sharpness and fidelity it appears to be a newer one as well.

Yes the GOUT crawl looks genuine enough and so does the stardestroyer flyover scene.

You can clearly tell the difference between the 1993 master and this unknown mysterious GOUT source as it has a slight chromashift or colour-bleed. The GOUT segment seems to been spliced in right after the fox fanfare and to the cut where you see the stardestroyer coming toward you. What really irritates me is that why did they not use a segment only a couple seconds longer so it covered all the space scenes until the first interior view of the Tantive ship for instance.

Judging by the reasonable good quality of the whole GOUT segment, chances are that the mysterious source actually is a full SW transfer from a good quality print that GL is hiding under his bed. And maybe he's going to sell it to us one frame or one scene at a time, if his going to sell it at all that is.

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I think it would be best to put the crawl without ANH into the X0, at least in some way. Either you'll choose which crawl do you want or then no ANH crawl at all. That's just my opinion. And because GOUT has that crawl so why don't use that instead of reconstructing it.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Originally posted by: Red5
Originally posted by: zombie84
You can clearly tell the difference between the 1993 master and this unknown mysterious GOUT source as it has a slight chromashift or colour-bleed. The GOUT segment seems to been spliced in right after the fox fanfare and to the cut where you see the stardestroyer coming toward you. What really irritates me is that why did they not use a segment only a couple seconds longer so it covered all the space scenes until the first interior view of the Tantive ship for instance.


I thought they did. When the stardestroyer is flying towards you the starfield is different from the laserdisc isn't it? Or do you mean the tiny clip when the tantive is hit?
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No the starfield seems to be the same as the LDs, I beleive it's the SE that has a different (original?) starfield in that scene.

Also the awful jaggies and that the print buckled or jumped in two or three places during the 1993 telecine seem to be the same on the GOUT.

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I don't think GOUT's source was ever in question.

Isn't it just the last laserdisc release with a new transfer of the original crawl tacked on.
This was suppose to be their "closer-to-the-source" answer to our preservation projects.

Since laserdiscs (and their source) are interlaced material, some hack did a really poor de-interlace giving us artifacts that we ourselves have the sense not to create when we make our own transfers.

I've seen that sort of crap before from other bad commercial DVD transfers where they just sloppily dump the laserdisc master to a disc.
The Quiet Man comes to mind right away, but there are many others examples.

Dr. M

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Originally posted by: Red5
No the starfield seems to be the same as the LDs, I beleive it's the SE that has a different (original?) starfield in that scene

Whoops, my mistake.

Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Doctor M Since laserdiscs (and their source) are interlaced material, some hack did a really poor de-interlace giving us artifacts that we ourselves have the sense not to create when we make our own transfers.


The source doesn't need to be deinterlaced before transferring to DVD. DVD is an inherently interlaced medium anyway. I believe the jaggies are the result of the telecine wobble. Since the transfer was captured to an interlaced medium, each field will be captured at a separate instance in time. If the film wobbles between two field captures from the same frame, then the fields won't exactly match up when weaved back together, hence the jaggies.
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"DVD is an inherently interlaced medium anyway."

Not really. The MPEG video of DVDs is interlaced because US television displays were interlaced, but the system is certainly capable of progressive video from DVD to TV.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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If video is stored on DVD in interlaced format (which it is), then I'd say it's fair to say that DVD is an inherently interlaced medium.
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Originally posted by: Alan Partridge
The source doesn't need to be deinterlaced before transferring to DVD.
But it should be inverse-telecined (IVTC) before transferring to DVD.
Ohterwise you're wasting bit-budget by encoding the same fields twice.
Yes, DVD stores fields not frames, but there's not much point wasting space storing two copies of the same field.
If you store telecined "frames" (two fields from different film frames) on your DVD, it'll look crap needlessly on progressive displays (computer screen, plasma TV, projector, etc.)
Not to mention, color correction routines will work best on progressive frames.

Fortunately, the X0 team members already understand the benefits of IVTC'ing their sources.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r