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Idea & Info: star trek the motion picture - preservation — Page 2

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I'm a huge fan of this film, I remember seeing it at home for the first time on a black and white television set when I was 6. In anycase I love the film and know it very well, and in my opinion the dvd director's cut is the best version (for now anyway) of the film. While I loved all of the longer version footage, it's needed to be trimmed and cut in some places. The new effects shots are great and add to the film in the best possible way in that they blend in seemlessly, and remove some of the confusion given by earlier version shots.

The cons on this cut for me are two, firstly the cut scenes and alternate scenes from the longer version. The alternate verisons of scenes from the theatrical version are much stiffer and I thing in some cases only placed in the cut for temp and not really meant to be used. For example, a medium shot for Bones is lecturing Kirk in Kirk's office you see a two shot of the men talking. The shot and the acting in the shot is wooden (the dialog in that scene I believe is "make your point doctor." "my point captain is that it's you that is competing" etc). In the alternate of that scene it's starts differently ("and another thing..." "get out of here Bones" "as ships doctor I am now discussing the subject of command fitness!" "make your point doctor.") that scene, and maybe two others I would add, as for the rest I would leave the cuts in place, including the Klingon battle, and the station distruction.

The second con is sound effects, while I feel more post production sound effects needed to be added, most of the ones added weren't that great. The alert sounds I the were aweful. As Star Wars has it's well known sounds (lightsabers, blasters, etc) as does star Trek. A well known red alert sound could have been used and would have sounded great. Why this was not done I can only assume either had to do with time or to do with givinig the film it's own sound. But the sounds are as much Star Trek as the actors, and we need to hear them!

So in short, if it were done my way, replace with and add some of the "longer version scenes (not most) and leave the trimms and effects as they are. And recreate a sound mix, a nice new 5.1 mix that mixes the sound and music better and adds fimiliar effects across the film.

Call it a "Director's Cut Special Edition" if you will.

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now that is an interesting idea. if anyone was willing to try that, i will help in any way i can(which probably isn't much but i will try). obviously it was for home video only but it is a shame Paramount never put out a widescreen extended version. speaking of extended versions, has anyone ever thought of putting back all the cut scenes and doing an original draft of any of the star trek or star wars movies? I myself would like to see an original cut of Nemesis because i have heard that even though it was a lot longer, it was a better version. The music might not work and the flow will be strange but it would be interesting to see the films as originally shot and according to the script. holla.
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I may do this myself but I would need the official dvd (which of course I have) for picture and sound, the longer version, in a widescreen ratio with original sound, and sound effects which should be easy enough to get myself.

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Well, if no one else takes it up, I might use the HD to make the theatrical version of TMP. Possibly even the tv cut, as well. It could be a very long time from now, if ever. No promises.

I'd rather get the HD's to someone who already knows what they're doing. I'd prefer reposting it to Usenet. Maybe ftp. But I expect it would end up involving the dreaded Post Office. {Grumble}.

Seems like hardly anyone who does this stuff has Usenet. Weird how that works...
It's almost as if there was a corrolation between having Usenet, and a lack of disc space...

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

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any updates?

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Keep in mind the HD transfer actually contains some color fixes that were done for "The Director's Edition" relating to the deflector dish.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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I have to say that one of my favorite little scenes was cut from the DVD. When Kirk has to tell Uhura twice to turn off the pojector after the whole crew has watched the space station vanish. It's not a big scene, but it showed how even a seasoned crew member could still be surprised by what they were facing.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Yeah, but Kirk is such a miserable grouch in the the theatrical cut.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
any updates?


Good news: I've got more storage, so I'm contemplating doing the TMP-extended first, as it will be a lot less complex than the fan-edits (if VideoRedoPlus will do its freakin' job!!! *ahem* pardon me). And, well, just to get something out the door.


And the mixed news:
As expected, once I shot off my big mouth, Real Life found a lot of ways to keep me away from the computers. (I'm a poster-child for Murphy's Law). But since that was expected, I'm sticking to it.

And I finally got an WinXP computer. That'll make things a *lot* simpler. It's 3-years-old, but almost-unused. Needs some updating...

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

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Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
Keep in mind the HD transfer actually contains some color fixes that were done for "The Director's Edition" relating to the deflector dish.

Neil


Any details on that?

I checked my tape (on a crappy old tv that's waiting for HD sets to drop in price) against the HD (on a not-yet-calibrated montior), for the Kirk-sees-the-new-Enterprise, and didn't notice anything. I won't be playing the tape any more until I cap it. I bought the extended LD, but no player yet. And I expect the HiFi of the tape will be better than the analog-only of the Extended LD.

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

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If you guys are looking for a LaserDisc of the letterbox theatrical cut of "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" to do your own fan edit, I have it up for sale/auction right here. I'm willing to get rid of it since my LaserDisc player just died after almost 20 years. Look over it when you can.

“Hear you nothing that I say?”
-Yoda

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Originally posted by: Jaiman Tuckuh
Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
Keep in mind the HD transfer actually contains some color fixes that were done for "The Director's Edition" relating to the deflector dish.

Neil


Any details on that?

I don't remember the exact shots, but I think at least one is when the Enterprise is inside V'ger while Kirk is recording the Captain's Log.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Originally posted by: Jaiman Tuckuh

And the mixed news:
As expected, once I shot off my big mouth, Real Life found a lot of ways to keep me away from the computers. (I'm a poster-child for Murphy's Law). But since that was expected, I'm sticking to it.


This I am very familar with of late.
Good luck to your working on the project.
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I'd like to see theatrical anamorphic versions of Star trek II, and VI.

I have the two disc ones and i hate the changes nick meyer made for his director's editions.

There is the bare bones earlier dvd release of the two films but are they anamorphic or are they even in the original aspect ratio?

Then there are different releases on LD of full screen versions of the films 1-6

which laserdiscs feature the stereo tracks, or digital surround sound?

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
I'd like to see theatrical anamorphic versions of Star trek II, and VI.

I have the two disc ones and i hate the changes nick meyer made for his director's editions.

There is the bare bones earlier dvd release of the two films but are they anamorphic or are they even in the original aspect ratio?

Then there are different releases on LD of full screen versions of the films 1-6

which laserdiscs feature the stereo tracks, or digital surround sound?


To summarise: it's a hell of a mess, with very few of the cut-scenes we really want to see. (I just got a look at the Generations 2-disc's deleted scenes - are they kidding me with that timecode shit?!!!).

If I'm not mistaken, all of the first DVD sets, of the Trek-movies, are letterbox.

The HD versions, that I have, appear to be theatrical cuts (if not entirely straight-from-film?). One would have to carefully compare them to the LD's, I suppose. Unfortunately, I haven't seen ST3, 4, or 5 posted.

IMDB has information on versions & resolutions. Tho' accuracy is not guaranteed.

It shows no version variations for ST5, nor for Generations. ST6's Home Video (LD, VHS) versions had extra footage.

Star Trek (r) the Videodisc Site is a thorough, and presumably accurate, source for ALL of the Trek LD's. Just the specs & covers, rarely the content. Some VHD & CED. And the US DVD's.

The US Fullscreens LD's of TMP and TWoK are analog Dolby Stereo (2.0?). All the rest of the US are also listed as having Dolby Stereo (2.0?) on the digital tracks. Fullscreen US Generations and First Contact, add Dolby Digital, and their Widescreen boast THX (FWIW). US Insurrection has all three, as well, since it's Widescreen. Nemesis wasn't on LD, of course.

What ticks me is that you have to spend some beau coup $$$ for Japanese LD box sets, to get digital audio for the Original Series. (Considering that the DVD's have everything but cowbells and arroga-horns mixed into the bridge noise, and I've read a reference that suggested some of the music was substituted). And there's a Japanese version of a special that I... but back to your questions...

ST4 has a Director's-version LD.

IMDB claims the ST5 R2 German PAL DVD has a resolution of 1.85:1.

I haven't looked much into PAL or Japanese LD's. (My budgeting software delivers a shock through the keyboard when I try to go that far. :-)

US Widescreen DVD's of ST6 are somewhere in the range of 1.85:1, instead of the 2.35:1 listed for the theatrical. Surprisingly, the same is true of the HD that I have. There are framing variations, as well - it would not be humanly possible to crop them to match theatrical, unless one had a print and a telecine machine. IMDB claims that the US widescreen LD's (and tapes?) are 2:1. There are various claims about PAL versions.

The fullscreen NTSC VHS of ST6 has opened the matte even further - so that much more of the vertical portion of the frame is revealed. Yet, in places, the Director's Edition reveals a slice-more of the top or bottom. Some of the sides are lost, but I haven't capped it to see how much is hidden in overscan. {I was gifted a Tandy LD Player, BTW. It makes some interesting noises, but that's all. } I assume that the Fullscreen LD is from the same Telecine - it should be preserved.

Nemesis is supposed to be similar. (They were both shot in Super 35). I haven't bought the widescreen to verify (the fullscreen was a gift - yes, it works ).

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

Download  shows from Cable DVR (Updated! Yes, it needs a rewrite, but it's worth slogging through, anyway).

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Too quick to babble back at questions...

First things second:


Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk

I don't remember the exact shots, but I think at least one is when the Enterprise is inside V'ger while Kirk is recording the Captain's Log.

Neil

Thanks, I'll keep my eyes open. I hope its not too hard to deal with.


Originally posted by: guiltyspark
Originally posted by: Jaiman Tuckuh

And the mixed news:
As expected, once I shot off my big mouth, Real Life found a lot of ways to keep me away from the computers. (I'm a poster-child for Murphy's Law). But since that was expected, I'm sticking to it.


This I am very familar with of late.
Good luck to your working on the project.


LOL!

Thanks, man.

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

Download  shows from Cable DVR (Updated! Yes, it needs a rewrite, but it's worth slogging through, anyway).

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any one going to preserve the special longer pan and scan version from laserdisc?

According to some sources this is taken from a television cut of the film for networks as prepared by paramount.

don't know if this is the one that was on abc or nbc? or cbs? when it was world premiered on the tube.

The theatrical version i have transfered from the laserdisc by someone on these boards is of very dubious quality.

I do not know if this is because of the source laserdisc used the equipment or if the person does'nt know how to capture something properly. the pcm sound was tops though, great scoe by goldsmith!

Personally I'd like to see the theatrical widescreen cut in dvd quality on a dual layer disc. I do not know if the official dvd could be used to re-cobble together that cut. with the full bit rate pcm of course.

I also wish the same could be done for star trek II and VI with the full bit rate pcm. I took the bare bones release of these 2 out of the library and it appeard they were taken from the laserdisc master, and they were single layer and had bad artifacting unlike the LD.

Plus i wish someone would preserve all six original trek movies from the full screen laserdisc versions for notalgia sake, since this is the way I saw them on t.v. and vhs back in the day. Plus they are not available on dvd in full frame versions as far as I know. plus the full frame lasers have the original stereo tracks and not the dolby surround.

If I was going to do a laserdisc preservation of star trek II i would have the Ld episode of Space seed as a bonus.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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How is this coming along?
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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005



If I was going to do a laserdisc preservation of star trek II i would have the Ld episode of Space seed as a bonus.


And if someone does another ST:TMP project they should include the LD Episode of "The Changeling".
This episode mirrors mirrors the plot of the first Star Trek Movie...

And another thing with SPACE SEED.. It would be kewl to edit in {or somehow insert} some footage of Mr. Chekov {with his Beatles type wig} walking in a corridor in at least one establishing scene or cut away shot...

http://www.trekweb.com/tos/crew/chekhov.gif


FF

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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I'm surprised the CBS people redoing the FX didn't attempt putting Chekov in there. Of course it could never be as funny as Walter Koenig's account of why Khan knows Chekov.
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hey troy if your interested in the theatrical cut of star trek the motion picture you should check out this thread for the HD2DVD of the theatrical cut available in both NTSC and Pal from Radix.

http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=7153&highlight_key=y&keyword1=star%20trek

noy sure and don't quote me on this but i think jaiman out Dr.gonzo369 in charge of the official US pif system, someone else is the pal countries.

if you live in the states shoot off dr. m a private message and if you ask nicely he might just hook you up, lol

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I was the digital supervisor of the new FX for the Director's Cut DVD.

It was fun to work on, and I have to say, for the most part, I think it's a better film now. We treated it as if we were starting post production from the ground up - this is far more the movie Robert Wise wanted to make, and rather than preserve, I'd like to see everyone DESTROY all previous versions of the movie!! ;-)

One sad thing I should report is that we'll never see the Director's Cut in HD - it was all done in standard def NTSC. We wanted to finish it in HD, but the hi def market hadn't even really been started yet and the studio was inclined to save the extra money.

Even though all the live action from the HD version could theoretically be edited together to form the Director's Cut, all the new visual effects were only rendered at 480.

By the way, here is an edit I did of the movie while working on the project:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPXx2ceFr1k

Enjoy!


PS: TXH1138 - I was at the same "Sit Long And Prosper" screening! And yes, it was the longer edition.
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Funny clip. Once the gag started, I could barely wait for Ilia to lean forward in rapture.

And Kirk getting a load...of light in the face was great.

BTW, definitely a fan of the Director's Cut version. I only wish there had been time/money/inclination to have fixed some matte work on some of the other effects too.
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Yes, I also think the director's cut is the best version of this movie, but still, it's worth to have all 3 versions, because they're like 3 different movies And also the motto of this website is "preservation"
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To be honest, I'm not very fond of the DE version. I just think it's wrong to redo special effects some twenty years later. I like the theatrical version much more, and I'm happy that it has been preserved by the people on this board. And I'd still kill for the "Special Longer Version" in widescreen format and dvd quality ... maybe someday there will be an HD broadcast of this version as well ...

Time is the fire in which we burn