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70 mm print of the Empire Strikes Back Differences — Page 2

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Originally posted by: Sluggo

• The frigate footage at the end looks decidedly different.*


Can someone post a screenshot of this?

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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The shots of the frigate in the 70mm version look the same as the subsequent releases, there are just more shots. This is where I think the 8mm will really be valuable. To Sluggo's keen powers of observation, the 8mm doesn't appear to have any of the new footage shot for the 35mm release. If you cut out the ILM model shots from the 35mm that aren't present on the 8mm, you will have a pretty close representation of the 70mm. I'll try to work on some screen grabs in a bit.
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I don't have ESB to compare it to the Super 8 right now (I'm at work), but is that directly overhead birds-eye shot of the probot capsule shooting down to Hoth also in the "real" movie? Watching it in the Super 8, it didn't look familiar at all, but that might have been the 4:3 cropping.
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Thanks for the clarification, Sluggo.

Ok. Now I'm about to complicate things, possibly swerving into urban legend territory:

Originally posted by: Sluggo

ALTERNATE AUDIO:
• Yoda makes a frightened "Ehhhhh!" sound just before Luke says "Like we're being watched" and points his blaster at him.
• C-3P0 adds a very sarcastic “Oh my, so nice to be together again” before he says “I thought that hairy beast would be the end of me.” *
• C-3P0 "Get away from there,” prefaces “You don't know how to fix the hyperdrive! Chewbacca can do it!”*


I'm pretty sure I've heard these before (and not in Building Empire). But I've never seen the 8 mm version or heard the Story of the Empire Strikes Back. I don't *think* I saw the 70 mm version. Is there somewhere else I could have heard these?

On a related note, is there some way to find out what theaters showed the 70 mm version of ESB?

EDIT:

Answered my own question. I did some research and found this: http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/star_wars/empire.htm

Apparently, I DID see the 70 mm version after all. Cool. Too bad I don't remember it too well. No wonder something just felt "right" about some of these different takes when I heard them in Building Empire.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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Originally posted by: andy_k_250
I don't have ESB to compare it to the Super 8 right now (I'm at work), but is that directly overhead birds-eye shot of the probot capsule shooting down to Hoth also in the "real" movie? Watching it in the Super 8, it didn't look familiar at all, but that might have been the 4:3 cropping.


Maybe it was the cropping. Part of it also is that the Super 8 is edited differently than the other versions. Why? Who knows.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
OK, so I've recombined the two lists of differences here and put them in order of the movie...
Thanks, Sluggo... this is going to help me out a lot when I get around to updating the Puggo page. (can't wait for summer vacation)

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Okay, Mark Hamill recorded the line, "The first transport is away!". For most versions up until the 1997 SE, the line was pitched down, presumably to make his voice sound less recognizable. From 1997 on, it sounds the way it was originally recorded.


Also, it appears that the 2006 GOUT "bonus" EMPIRE DVD features the 70mm mix on the French and Spanish language tracks. While all of the dialogue is dubbed into those languages, the sound effects and such seem to match up with the list of 70mm differences (many of which made their way back into the 1997 and 2004 SEs) .
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http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Sluggomatic2000/70mm/VTS_01_5001.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Sluggomatic2000/70mm/VTS_01_5002.jpg


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Sluggomatic2000/70mm/VTS_01_5003.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Sluggomatic2000/70mm/VTS_01_5004.jpg


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Sluggomatic2000/70mm/VTS_01_5006.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/Sluggomatic2000/70mm/VTS_01_5009.jpg

All right, here's what I think is the breakdown of the final shots of Empire. The 'Original' shots would have been in the 70mm while the 're-shoot' shots would have been spliced into the 35mm release. The pics are from the GOUT and have a timecode for reference.

The shot from 1:58:19 to 1:58:28 is obviously a reshoot. I'd bet that the third shot of 1:58:29 to 1:18:35 is from the same shot sequence as 1:58:39 to 1:58:44. It seems like it was one long shot that was split in two.

Thoughts?

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I believe that's correct, Sluggo. Nice job.

Back to the Super 8, I've only gone over the first reel, but here's what I found:

• Luke: "Echo Three to Echo Seven. Han 'ole buddy, do you read me?" -Different take [also on Story of] [Not in SE]

• Luke: "Well, I finished my circle. I don't pick up any life readings." -Different take [also on Story of] [Not in SE]

• Han: "There isn't enough life on this ice cube to fill a space cruiser. Sensors are placed, I'm coming back." Note: Han says "I'm coming back" instead of "I'm going back." -Different take [also on Story of] [Not in SE]

• Rogue 2: "Captain Solo, do you copy?" -Different take [Not in SE] [Dialogue not featured in Story of]

• The first time Rogue 2 says, "Commander Skywalker, do you copy?" is placed after he says "Captain Solo, do you copy?" instead of being placed before. The second "Commander Skywalker, do you copy?" is not on the Super 8 reel. It may have been edited that way for the Super 8, but I found it odd.

• Leia: "They're getting closer." -Different take [Not in Story of or SE]

• Han: "Oh, yeah? Watch this." -Different take [Not in Story of or SE]

Originally posted by: Sluggo
• Yoda makes a frightened "Ehhhhh!" sound just before Luke says "Like we're being watched" and points his blaster at him.

This short clip is from a 1983 episode of At The Movies. It's not too significant, but I found it interesting.

The Starkiller's Guide to the Mono Sound Mix

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Originally posted by: Gregatron
Okay, Mark Hamill recorded the line, "The first transport is away!". For most versions up until the 1997 SE, the line was pitched down, presumably to make his voice sound less recognizable. From 1997 on, it sounds the way it was originally recorded.
I don't know about that. They sound like two different voices to me. The SE (70mm?) voice sounds like Mark.
Originally posted by: Gregatron
Also, it appears that the 2006 GOUT "bonus" EMPIRE DVD features the 70mm mix on the French and Spanish language tracks. While all of the dialogue is dubbed into those languages, the sound effects and such seem to match up with the list of 70mm differences (many of which made their way back into the 1997 and 2004 SEs) .

I believe you're confusing this with the mono mix of Star Wars.

The Starkiller's Guide to the Mono Sound Mix

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anyone found anymore differences?

Remember, Highlander, you’ve both still got your full measure of life. Use it well, and your future will be glorious.

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full cinescope version
on ebay - 8MM

http://cgi.ebay.com/STAR-WARS-scope-feature-stereo-LOW-FADE-super-8mm_W0QQitemZ160194146833QQihZ006QQcategoryZ63821QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

could be the 70 mm we are looking for

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There's a 16mm print up for sale now too. Damn, I need to win the lottery!

And Mitch? Check your PM's, please?
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is the 70MM version on DVD? Anybody got the hook up? Promise to pass it along!
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Some time ago in this thread, JD mentions the Jan/Feb 1997 issue of Movie Score magazine that lists all the differences in the 70mm version along with an interview with Michael Matessino. I was wondering if anyone would be able to upload a scan of that article anywhere as I would be interested in reading the entire article.

The odds of tracking down a 70mm print of the film or either an in theater recording are very slim so this seems to be our best source for a list of differences and is a lot more reliable than the Wikipedia article.

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I guess we lucked out getting one for ANH's 4.2 then...

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Originally posted by: ts0205
is the 70MM version on DVD? Anybody got the hook up? Promise to pass it along!


No, it is not on a DVD. One of the reasons we are discussing all these differences is so we can make a possible reconstruction of that version. Maybe you could contribute a bit of research before asking for a free hand-out.
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The in theater recording of ANH is one of the greatest finds ever. It's just a shame LFL won't give us a high quality copy using the origonal masters.

The 70mm print of TESB had slight visual diffrences though, so if an audio recording of it did pop up, it wouldn't be the final word on the topic.

Your brain just makes s**t up!

A fate worse than death? Having your head digitally replaced with that of Hayden Christensen!

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I tell you if I had the money I would go for it, but I am up to my head in this Superman BETA thingy. Finding a Beta player that works with these tapes suc.

A 70mm print would be sweet though.

I brought this message to the top in hopes of strirring the pot so someone could come forward with help =

Remember, Highlander, you’ve both still got your full measure of life. Use it well, and your future will be glorious.

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Originally posted by: Mitch
I tell you if I had the money I would go for it, but I am up to my head in this Superman BETA thingy. Finding a Beta player that works with these tapes suc.

A 70mm print would be sweet though.

I brought this message to the top in hopes of strirring the pot so someone could come forward with help =


I actually have a co-worker who ONLY had BETA for years. Do you need help?

Btw...I know this might be a long shot but would any of the Indy films have differences between the 35 and 70mm presentations?
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i know their is a super8 digest version of raiders. it is fairly rare though only appearing on ebay once.

so far i have yet to see the digest versions of star trek tmp or superman 1978 preserved either.

i have done tons of research on whether or not their ever was a digest version of return of the jedi and so far have turned up nothing.

it appears with ken films going out of business their is not one unless there was some scarce foreign version or something.

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*bump*

Hey all, there is an old phrase that if you want something done right... blah, blah...

So, by way of some initial inquiry, hypothetically if someone were to complete a reconstruction of the 70mm version of ESB, what source would be best to use as the basis for this. Granted the audio would need an overhaul and some effect sequences would need to be completed, but what release or preservation project would best serve this idea? The GOUT or maybe one of the laserdisc captures?
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I'm surprised this thread hasn't had more activity, especially after Sluggo's last post...

I forget how/why I came to this thread, but it brings back some great memories of the times I've watched "Building Empire." I love that movie, but the whole 70mm/alternate audio stuff is my favorite part about it. Jambe did a great job of bringing those clips to the forefront. :)

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I noticed a very little difference when I watched The Empire Strikes Back - The Special Edition on VHS recently. The blinking red light on the top of one of the buildings behind Boba Fett's ship on Cloud City (which is a wonderful little detail) was not to be seen. I'm so used to seeing it on the Original version so I noticed this little difference immediately, I have checked the 2004 DVD version and it's not there either. Is this just a -97 alteration or could it be a left-over from a 70mm print? I'm asking this because it would be strange to omit this little detail on an otherwise untouched scene.

I'm sorry I didn't have some pictures to show the difference.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Okeydokey...

I put in the GOUT (which of course was sourced from a laserdisc master which was taken from the 35mm version) and the blinking light was there in the scene where Fett was loading Solo in the cargo hold.  Pretty bright.

My copy of the 97 SE also had the blinking light, only it was very dim.  It wasn't so much flashing, only it was a orange blob that grew and shrunk.  It wouldn't have been hard to miss if I hadn't been looking close.

The 04 SE also had the blinking light on the tower, but it was a bit easier to see.

It seems to Sluggo that the light isn't as easy to see in the SE's because the reds and oranges were ramped up in the so-called color correction.