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“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
The Go-Mer-Tonic™ Thread - Today's Topic: Whose your favorite author and why? — Page 10
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I myself believe Christianity has it's time and place and that is church, peoples own worship time, at home, or in faith based schools. I don't think public schools should be the place for this debate.
Possibly colleges could have intelligent debate on it.
the science of darwins article is almost a hundred years old, and is obsolete. Plus there are startling holes in his theories that have come out in recent years. There are many other theories in science for the evolution of earth man and the universe.
an Elder at my church has a very modified view of evolution as being god's tool, he still did'nt answer my question about the fossil record or dinosaurs being here millions of years before man.
according to some history channel special we started out as amoebas in some sea of goo, then became fish, then apes, then people.
i asked my science teacher how the apes in zoos have not turned into people yet or in some metamophic half monkey, half man state. it would make sense i mean tadpoles become frogs and i have seen ones half in between that change.
I also being a smart ass said to the teacher if man came from apes than your saying god's an ape.
you know like in planet of the apes where they actually have a statue of god who's an ape, LOL
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Prove who wrong? Conservatives who may or may not believe in intelligent design? I would like to see you prove them wrong.
That was a joke really I know you can't force some one to believe something.
Well it always has been easy to see into the past than into the future. We have records like bones, footprints. fossils, rock samples all those are simply records of the past.
Anyway Sean, what do you think about it? Why do you think that?
That was a joke really I know you can't force some one to believe something.
Does man really believe he is so great that he can tell what happened millions of years ago when he cannot even tell what the weather will be like tomorrow?
Well it always has been easy to see into the past than into the future. We have records like bones, footprints. fossils, rock samples all those are simply records of the past.
Anyway Sean, what do you think about it? Why do you think that?
I am a evolution believer always have been since. Becoming non-religious and started think other peoples beliefs aren't complete bullshit.
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Originally posted by: ferris209
I also believe that evolution was God's tool and that our being here is well thought out and designed by a higher power than we could yet imagine. How can someone look around them and see trees, people, flowers, dogs, cats, and everything and think that it all is just happenstance?
I also believe that evolution was God's tool and that our being here is well thought out and designed by a higher power than we could yet imagine. How can someone look around them and see trees, people, flowers, dogs, cats, and everything and think that it all is just happenstance?
If there is a god this seems likely. IMO.
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Also, the gradual change in the evolution of humans is quite well visible in the fossil records.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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Originally posted by: Coov
Being that evolution has never been proven makes it just as faith based as any "religion". Either we were born from a cosmic burp of chance from absolutely nothing and life is meaningless, or there is a Creator and we are accountable for the life that was given to us.
Being that evolution has never been proven makes it just as faith based as any "religion". Either we were born from a cosmic burp of chance from absolutely nothing and life is meaningless, or there is a Creator and we are accountable for the life that was given to us.
Well, the way I look at it is this. If there is a Creator and I live my life accordingly then I will be blessed with a wonderful eternity. If there is not a Creator and we are just great big cosmic mistake, then I'll be dead after living a good life. So why does it upset some folks that I believe in a God and choose to live a good life? This I'll never understand.
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When it comes to baking, you need to strictly follow a recipe for the goods to turn out right. One forgotten ingredient or imprecise amount can royally screw things up.
So the way I look at it is that humans are just really, really advanced beings created out of some cosmic recipe.
Either there is an omnipotent chef at work to make sure all of the right ingredients were in the exact amount, at the exact time and at the exact conditions for us to develop the way we have, or we are one giant cluster-f%*k of a mistake.
I tend to go with the former, which is why I believe in God but not organized religion - a fundamental difference many lose sight of.
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Originally posted by: ferris209
Well, the way I look at it is this. If there is a Creator and I live my life accordingly then I will be blessed with a wonderful eternity. If there is not a Creator and we are just great big cosmic mistake, then I'll be dead after living a good life. So why does it upset some folks that I believe in a God and choose to live a good life? This I'll never understand.
Originally posted by: Coov
Being that evolution has never been proven makes it just as faith based as any "religion". Either we were born from a cosmic burp of chance from absolutely nothing and life is meaningless, or there is a Creator and we are accountable for the life that was given to us.
Being that evolution has never been proven makes it just as faith based as any "religion". Either we were born from a cosmic burp of chance from absolutely nothing and life is meaningless, or there is a Creator and we are accountable for the life that was given to us.
Well, the way I look at it is this. If there is a Creator and I live my life accordingly then I will be blessed with a wonderful eternity. If there is not a Creator and we are just great big cosmic mistake, then I'll be dead after living a good life. So why does it upset some folks that I believe in a God and choose to live a good life? This I'll never understand.
MANY blame God for what man has made religion and want no part of it. Others rely on scientific assumptions for comfort because of a fear of accountability for their own lives. Some simply don't care.
As far as my stance, the Word of God is the only true window to knowing who God truly is. Anyone searching for answers about God will find them there. Not picking and choosing for convenience sake, but a spirit filled enlightenment after coming to accept its complete Truth.
Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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If we are just one big cosmic accident then there is absolutely no point to life. We live, we die, we are worm food. No foundation of standards... simply an aimless array of opinion spinning aimlessly through space and time.
Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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As for the theory of evolution, I think it's ultimately a non-issue; whether life literally began in six days, or whether that story is an allegory for evolution of the species, it doesn't explain where the matter and energy that make up the universe came from. The existence of lack thereof of God is not within the realm of science to prove.
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Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
So if you would find out today there is no God, you would feel your life is meaningless? The existence of a God doesn't change anything about world as we know it today, so why would the meaning be different. You can give life your own meaning. Do what you think is good.
So if you would find out today there is no God, you would feel your life is meaningless? The existence of a God doesn't change anything about world as we know it today, so why would the meaning be different. You can give life your own meaning. Do what you think is good.
Life may not feel meaningless, but there are many things out there to keep us sidetracked from discovering who God truly is.
I have seen both sides considering I have not always been a Christian. I used to think Christ as nothing more than a comic book hero that only weak may need. I enjoyed life with things that would temporarily fill that void in my life. After accepting Christ I changed. I live my life now in appreciation for a God that loves me so much that after my acceptance of Him he guides my every step. He has given me a joy I never thought possible. Something that I would have never obtained outside the grace of Christ.
Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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Well, why should evolution be taught as fact in the school? If it is a THEORY, which it is, don't I, (as a 14 year old "ignorant" student of the public education) have the right to hear other theory? Its disgusting the way this is taught. At least my 8th grade teacher had the balls to say "Well, I have to teach this to you, but for the record, I do not believe in it. That is all that is going to be said"--Like, I mean, can I as a kid have some sort of disclaimer warning me that this is not fact? Just a theory?
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Originally posted by: WESHALLPRESERVE
Very good words Coov----very-
Well, why should evolution be taught as fact in the school? If it is a THEORY, which it is, don't I, (as a 14 year old "ignorant" student of the public education) have the right to hear other theory? Its disgusting the way this is taught. At least my 8th grade teacher had the balls to say "Well, I have to teach this to you, but for the record, I do not believe in it. That is all that is going to be said"--Like, I mean, can I as a kid have some sort of disclaimer warning me that this is not fact? Just a theory?
Very good words Coov----very-
Well, why should evolution be taught as fact in the school? If it is a THEORY, which it is, don't I, (as a 14 year old "ignorant" student of the public education) have the right to hear other theory? Its disgusting the way this is taught. At least my 8th grade teacher had the balls to say "Well, I have to teach this to you, but for the record, I do not believe in it. That is all that is going to be said"--Like, I mean, can I as a kid have some sort of disclaimer warning me that this is not fact? Just a theory?
Like every time you go to church the reverend has to say: "all that I'm going to say is not fact, it's just a theory"? Children who go to church go there because their parents want to. Not because they want to. They are brainwashed from a very early age. I think you should not confront children with evolution or religion until they are 12-14 and than show them both theories so they can make up their own mind.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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What disappoints me the most is the bulk of nonbelievers chose to steer away from religion (unless there is a chance to try to hurt someone's beliefs) because they were drove away by what man has made it. There is such a big difference between "religion" and what Christ truly intends for His believers. Religion is simply man trying to reach a god through his own works and rituals. Christianity is a Christ reaching down to us. Loving us enough to come down here and show us how much He loves us. Man has really messed it up and it is in no way appealing to the ones who chose not to believe.
Like I said, I have been on both sides. I have seen what God has done in my life and is not represented with smacking crippled people in the head to heal them for money, nor boo-hooing on national television with big purple hair with a bunch of people making a spectacle of themselves.
Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Like every time you go to church the reverend has to say: "all that I'm going to say is not fact, it's just a theory"? Children who go to church go there because their parents want to. Not because they want to. They are brainwashed from a very early age. I think you should not confront children with evolution or religion until they are 12-14 and than show them both theories so they can make up their own mind.
Originally posted by: WESHALLPRESERVE
Very good words Coov----very-
Well, why should evolution be taught as fact in the school? If it is a THEORY, which it is, don't I, (as a 14 year old "ignorant" student of the public education) have the right to hear other theory? Its disgusting the way this is taught. At least my 8th grade teacher had the balls to say "Well, I have to teach this to you, but for the record, I do not believe in it. That is all that is going to be said"--Like, I mean, can I as a kid have some sort of disclaimer warning me that this is not fact? Just a theory?
Very good words Coov----very-
Well, why should evolution be taught as fact in the school? If it is a THEORY, which it is, don't I, (as a 14 year old "ignorant" student of the public education) have the right to hear other theory? Its disgusting the way this is taught. At least my 8th grade teacher had the balls to say "Well, I have to teach this to you, but for the record, I do not believe in it. That is all that is going to be said"--Like, I mean, can I as a kid have some sort of disclaimer warning me that this is not fact? Just a theory?
Like every time you go to church the reverend has to say: "all that I'm going to say is not fact, it's just a theory"? Children who go to church go there because their parents want to. Not because they want to. They are brainwashed from a very early age. I think you should not confront children with evolution or religion until they are 12-14 and than show them both theories so they can make up their own mind.
I think the idea is that not everyone is forced to go to Church, while everyone does have to go to school. But I disagree with the idea that the ancient Jewish account of creation should be taught in school. That is doing just the opposite of what they are doing in public schools now. Something more of a middle ground is needed.
As far as kids being brainwashed in Church, that is an interesting idea. What do you define as being brainwashed? If teaching evolution in school is also brainwashing, then I suppose brainwashing is a very common practice in our world. I myself prefer the term teaching.
I think we need to be teaching our children to be free thinking. If our children believe in God merely because they are told to by their parents, then they hardly believe in God at all do they? It is more of a tradition than a belief. If they go through their whole life beliving in God just because of what they were taught as a child, then it is a very empty and easily broken belief. The same goes for unprovable scientific theories. If it is to be believed simply because it is what we have been taught, then it is an empty belief.
The idea of a God is an interesting one that has so many different meaning for different people. Some people find great comfort in the idea of an all powerful being protecting and watching out for them. They find comfort in the idea that when they die they are in his hands. Other can't stand the idea of not being in control of their lives. They can't bear the fact that there is something so much greater than themselves.
For my part, as much as I have wanted to be in control of things in my life. And as many times as I have wished to think that everything in life can be seen and tested, I can't. Not because I was "brainwashed" as a child, but because I have seen too many things that cannot be explained by science. On top of that I have studied the Bible through and through and I have studied other acient documents and have never found anything remotely as impressive as the Bible. The Bible truely is one of a kind.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
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As far as kids being brainwashed in Church, that is an interesting idea. What do you define as being brainwashed? If teaching evolution in school is also brainwashing, then I suppose brainwashing is a very common practice in our world. I myself prefer the term teaching.
I think we need to be teaching our children to be free thinking. If our children believe in God merely because they are told to by their parents, then they hardly believe in God at all do they? It is more of a tradition than a belief. If they go through their whole life beliving in God just because of what they were taught as a child, then it is a very empty and easily broken belief. The same goes for unprovable scientific theories. If it is to be believed simply because it is what we have been taught, then it is an empty belief.
Brainwashing might be a bit exaggerated but when you have been raised with religion it's not so easy to get out of it I think. You believe there's a creator, that there's someone protecting you and looking after you. When you die you think you go to heaven. There's a whole community of people who think the same as you and you feel welcome and at home.
If that's the case it's almost impossible to let go of this "lifestyle". You don't want to accept that maybe there's no God, maybe you won't go to heaven when you die. When people said to you all your life there's a God and a heaven than it's very difficult to let go of that believe because the alternative is not nearly as appealing.
On top of that I have studied the Bible through and through and I have studied other acient documents and have never found anything remotely as impressive as the Bible. The Bible truely is one of a kind.
I think we need to be teaching our children to be free thinking. If our children believe in God merely because they are told to by their parents, then they hardly believe in God at all do they? It is more of a tradition than a belief. If they go through their whole life beliving in God just because of what they were taught as a child, then it is a very empty and easily broken belief. The same goes for unprovable scientific theories. If it is to be believed simply because it is what we have been taught, then it is an empty belief.
Brainwashing might be a bit exaggerated but when you have been raised with religion it's not so easy to get out of it I think. You believe there's a creator, that there's someone protecting you and looking after you. When you die you think you go to heaven. There's a whole community of people who think the same as you and you feel welcome and at home.
If that's the case it's almost impossible to let go of this "lifestyle". You don't want to accept that maybe there's no God, maybe you won't go to heaven when you die. When people said to you all your life there's a God and a heaven than it's very difficult to let go of that believe because the alternative is not nearly as appealing.
On top of that I have studied the Bible through and through and I have studied other acient documents and have never found anything remotely as impressive as the Bible. The Bible truely is one of a kind.
Is there any part in particular that's special or a part that you think everybody should have read? I don't plan to read the whole Bible but if there a small part you could recommend I would like to read it.
Do you also know if and where in the Bible "hell" is described?
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Many years later I learned what I was never taught before. It is not what God can do for me, but what I can do for God through my faithfulness to His Word. I learned that the wage of our sinful nature is death. I never understood what in the world was so significant about a Christ on the cross. Without that foundation of understanding and faith religion can and will brainwash someone that does not know any better and just goes through the motions. An empty faith in God can be a very dangerous thing. That is why there are so many hypocrites and lunatics out there in the name of religion. They think that it is their words that can change the world by scoffing and hating those around them. I can't blame someone for feeling differently than I do. I just pray that I can make a difference in someone's life by standing out and inspiring rather than demeaning. Not for my glory, but to show what Christ and Christ alone has done in my life and can do for anyone who choses to.
Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Is there any part in particular that's special or a part that you think everybody should have read? I don't plan to read the whole Bible but if there a small part you could recommend I would like to read it.
Do you also know if and where in the Bible "hell" is described?
Is there any part in particular that's special or a part that you think everybody should have read? I don't plan to read the whole Bible but if there a small part you could recommend I would like to read it.
Do you also know if and where in the Bible "hell" is described?
Where the Bible really shines is when you can look at is as a whole and see how well it snaps together, which is impressive when you consider how many different writers it has and over how many hundreds of years it was written. To recommend one particular part everybody should read, that is hard. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. If you want to read one small section that will explain to you everything you ever wanted to know, or that will inform you of general Christian doctrine, you are not going to come up with anything. You have the four Gospels containing four accounts of Jesus life, death and resurrection, but if you do not believe in God or don't have any interest in Christianity, then I don't think you will gain anything from reading them. The rest of the New Testament consists of Paul's letters and some other letters by various other people, these are more about the Christian life and address certian controversies in different Churches during and around the first century. So again, if you are not a Christian and have very little interest in Christianity, then you will find these pointless and boring. Most people who do not know much about the Bible dive right into Revelation because they think it is cool. I would not recommend this, as Revelation requires a pretty good understanding of both the Old and New Testament to make heads or tails of, and it is most often misinterpreted by novices and scholars alike.
In the Old Testament you have the books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The first eleven chapters of Genesis is a quick read, and it takes you from the Creation story, the story of the Ark, and the story of Babel, and ends before Abraham. Many scholars believe these first 11 chapters to be more of Jewish mythology rather than actual history. Not to say this section is just irrelevent fairy stories, they do have a very strong and valid meaning regardless of weather you choose to believe them to be history or myth. It is important to realize that these books are claimed to have been written my Moses who lived a VERY long time later. Exodus is about Moses and the Israelites exodus from Egypt and the years spend wandering in the desert. Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy spend a lot of time on the law and can get pretty tedious to read.
My personal favorites are the books of history, especially Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings. The books of Poetry can also be quite enjoyable, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiaties, Song of Solomon. My favorites from this section are hands down Job and Ecclesiaties. Proverbs is also a pretty cool read. The rest of the Old Testament is the Books of Prophecy.
If you are interested to learn more of Christian history, I would recommend Luke and Acts. Luke being one of the Gospels tells the story of Jesus, Acts which is written by the same author as Luke continues right where Luke lets off and tells the story of the early church, including the conversion of the Apostle Paul and his missionary journeys.
You asked where hell is described in the Bible, there are actually not that many descriptions of it. Hell as it is modernly precieved is mostly from Dante's Inferno, this is where the fire and brimstone stuff comes from. Several things in Revelation could be taken as descriptions of hell, depending on how you interpret the book. In Luke 16:19 you have the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus, which also has a sort of describtion of the afterlife. My personal conclusion on the subject is that the Bible was not meant to describe the afterlife, but does have warnings that there will be punishment in store for the and rewards for the righteous.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Like every time you go to church the reverend has to say: "all that I'm going to say is not fact, it's just a theory"? Children who go to church go there because their parents want to. Not because they want to. They are brainwashed from a very early age. I think you should not confront children with evolution or religion until they are 12-14 and than show them both theories so they can make up their own mind.
Originally posted by: WESHALLPRESERVE
Very good words Coov----very-
Well, why should evolution be taught as fact in the school? If it is a THEORY, which it is, don't I, (as a 14 year old "ignorant" student of the public education) have the right to hear other theory? Its disgusting the way this is taught. At least my 8th grade teacher had the balls to say "Well, I have to teach this to you, but for the record, I do not believe in it. That is all that is going to be said"--Like, I mean, can I as a kid have some sort of disclaimer warning me that this is not fact? Just a theory?
Very good words Coov----very-
Well, why should evolution be taught as fact in the school? If it is a THEORY, which it is, don't I, (as a 14 year old "ignorant" student of the public education) have the right to hear other theory? Its disgusting the way this is taught. At least my 8th grade teacher had the balls to say "Well, I have to teach this to you, but for the record, I do not believe in it. That is all that is going to be said"--Like, I mean, can I as a kid have some sort of disclaimer warning me that this is not fact? Just a theory?
Like every time you go to church the reverend has to say: "all that I'm going to say is not fact, it's just a theory"? Children who go to church go there because their parents want to. Not because they want to. They are brainwashed from a very early age. I think you should not confront children with evolution or religion until they are 12-14 and than show them both theories so they can make up their own mind.
Thats so stupid.Do you honestly think todays 12-14 year olds are competent and even understand a fiber of this debate. That is just fucking unbelievable---You must not know how the average 12-14 year old is. This is very funny.
You must have a very sad life from what I am reading. Jesus Christ.
