Originally posted by: CO
Not to get off topic, but I disagree. I agree it is not a standalone flick, and it has no beginning, no middle and no end, but the movie is so damn good, I can watch it without caring about the rest of the saga. That is what seperates ANH/ESB from the rest, they don't rely on moments that tie the saga together to make them great, they are just well made films that are great on their own.
ROTJ works great at the end cause of the Vader/Emperor/Luke confrontation, the Yoda death sequence, and the ObiWan/Luke talk, and the only reason is because you can enjoy it in the context of the story 4-6 or 1-6 that sort of ties everything together. The same with the PT movies, the best moments are the ones that tie with the OT, and the movies can't rely on their merits of just being a great movie to hold up. I constantly hear PT fans favorite moments of ObiWan/Anakin duel, the building of Vader, Luke/Leia being delivered to their respective planets, and that is solely cause it ties the story you saw from 4-6. I never hear someone say that the Jake Lloyd Tatoine parts are fascinating, because in retrospect they really aren't that compelling, other then they get your from point A to point B to the growth of Darth Vader.
ANH & ESB will always be movies I can pop in without the OT story or the Saga story in mind, and they deliver everytime because they are just great movies.
Originally posted by:JediRandy
ESB as a stand alone flick.... doesn't work. No beginning, middle or end... it's just the middle.
)
ESB as a stand alone flick.... doesn't work. No beginning, middle or end... it's just the middle.
)
Not to get off topic, but I disagree. I agree it is not a standalone flick, and it has no beginning, no middle and no end, but the movie is so damn good, I can watch it without caring about the rest of the saga. That is what seperates ANH/ESB from the rest, they don't rely on moments that tie the saga together to make them great, they are just well made films that are great on their own.
ROTJ works great at the end cause of the Vader/Emperor/Luke confrontation, the Yoda death sequence, and the ObiWan/Luke talk, and the only reason is because you can enjoy it in the context of the story 4-6 or 1-6 that sort of ties everything together. The same with the PT movies, the best moments are the ones that tie with the OT, and the movies can't rely on their merits of just being a great movie to hold up. I constantly hear PT fans favorite moments of ObiWan/Anakin duel, the building of Vader, Luke/Leia being delivered to their respective planets, and that is solely cause it ties the story you saw from 4-6. I never hear someone say that the Jake Lloyd Tatoine parts are fascinating, because in retrospect they really aren't that compelling, other then they get your from point A to point B to the growth of Darth Vader.
ANH & ESB will always be movies I can pop in without the OT story or the Saga story in mind, and they deliver everytime because they are just great movies.
But Jedi would never have worked without Empire, for that emotional pay off - and the same goes for Empire.
To be honest, back in 1980 it wasn't Empire that was great, it was waiting to see it that was so much fun...