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A Song of Ice and Fire

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Hey, I don't sign into OT.com much anymore, but I wanted to share this with the group.

There's probably a 50/50 split between people on here who've heard of ASoIaF. It is a fantasy book series currently in progress. The books are on par with novels like LotR and Wheel of Time. The basic plot line involves a continent, Westeros, which is suffering a civil war after the death of its King. It involves war, intrigue, incest, murder, faith (not christianity...), oaths, and lies. Except for the occasional sprikle of magic from the gods this could be an almost entirely historical account of some distant land in the middle ages.

So, for those of you who HAVE read them: I have amazing news. George R. R. Martin, the author, has said numerous times that these books could not be sufficiently made into movies (to put it in perspective, the third book in the series - A Storm of Swords - is as large as the LotR trilogy...) because no film studio would ever commit to 18 movies to capture the whole story. BUT, like I said, an amazing thing happened. HBO, the creator of WONDERFUL miniseries, such as Deadwood, The Sopranos, and ROME, has bought an option on the tv and film rights to ASoIaF!!!! Variety.com was the first to announce the news. Then, Martin confirmed it. Enjoy the articles

Moving on, if for whatever reason you have been deprived of reading this epic series...I'm sorry, you don't realize what you are missing! I think I might like it better than Star Wars, and SW is pretty much an awesome story (bad acting aside!) If I can find one, I will post a sample on here so you can get a taste and hopefully LOVE it!
I just hate stupid people.

GO JETS!!!!

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In this series the author said he wanted to portray the chracters realistically and not simply black or white or good vs. evil but more gray.

This is a very new age concept where you as the reader are supposed to be confused as to who the hero or villains in the story are. they tried this with wheel of time series and was somewhat unconvincing.

This is why I dislike anti hero 90's ish type characters and I love the original star wars trilogy because the bad guys and good guys are so well defined. That might not be in vogue with post 911 darkness end of the world shit but so be it.

The prequels sucked and were a downer because we were supposed to root for the dark anti hero.

tolkien's hero's and villains had a very thin line between them because a christian writer would know about the fall of man and sin. although no such words were used in his books sauron and the devil are pretty much the same and the ring as the tempter. Frodo was saved by Grace because like Bilbo he pitied Gollum and forgave him.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Wasn't there that cool/cheesy animated movie based on them around 1983 or so? Or am i thinking of something completely different?
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you are thinking of something completely different altogther. that is fire and Ice the Frank Frazetta movie by Ralph Bakshi.

he is talking about new york times bestselling fantasy author George R. R. Martin's series of novels.

By the way just becuase they optioned the rights startrooper3000 that does not necessarily mean it will get made.

how many times was lotr rings optioned and not made because of the cost since the 1950's at least half a dozen times.

Terry Brooks Elfstones of shannara was optioned but never made. So was his kingdom for sale book. Many studios are trying to cash in on lord of the rings success see chronicles of narnia and eragon for instance. although Lion the witch and the warbrobe was a fine movie and eragon just plain sucked.

The sword of shannara could make for a great movie if only too derivative of lotr, so would a number of wheel of time series books or sword of truths. what were tlaking about here though seriously is adaptation since films hardly ever do the source material justice

I have heard that some film studios have made serious offers to anne mcafree to make dragonriders pictures.

It is funny to think that the High point for fantasy books made into films is peter jackson's trilogy of lotr since it deviated from the books in far too many ways even if it kept the feel of it intact. I have a feeling tolkien would'nt have approved some of the unauthorized changes tom his story nor his estate since they had no say or involvement.

Tolkien enterprises has nothing to do with the tolkien estate since right before his death tolkien needed the money and sold the rights to Saul zaentz for movies television rights and toys ect. i think he wanted to leave for money for his family not imagining that lord of the rings sales in the late 2oth and 21st century wouldve' made his family very rich indeed.

Not to mention that his son chistopher made a ton off of publising his unfinished drafts of middle earth materials. First came the Silmarillion, then unfinished tales all twelve volumes of the history of middle earth series plus a thirteenth volume index and 2007 will see the children of Hurin finally published.

the only other fantasy series I know of transfered to television mini series or film is Earthsea. There was the sci fi channel wizard of earthsea and of course the animated film from studio ghibli not yet released in the united states which takes several liberties with the story.

Now all they have to do is a good big screen version of King Arthur. That adapts Sir Thomas Malory.

The Hobbit will absolutely suck is p.j. is not involved in fact it should be boycotted.

he wants to make some fantasy series I've never even heard of. ]

I've heard Christopher Tolkien has done everything in his power to make sure hollywood never touches the silmarillion. I think that's too bad because some of the tales would make for terrific cinema like Beren and Luthien or Turin and the dragon.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I actually posted this in the "For Fans of George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire" thread. Looking forward to it very, VERY much. Casting will be critical. Someone mentioned Daniel Day Lewis as Ned Stark.

Im hoping that they pull this off, as I think this series of books has surpassed LOTR.
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hmm on par with LOTR ehh i should look into these books
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A good overview of the series, but beware of spoilers:

ASOIAF Wiki
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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
In this series the author said he wanted to portray the chracters realistically and not simply black or white or good vs. evil but more gray.

This is a very new age concept where you as the reader are supposed to be confused as to who the hero or villains in the story are. they tried this with wheel of time series and was somewhat unconvincing.

This is why I dislike anti hero 90's ish type characters and I love the original star wars trilogy because the bad guys and good guys are so well defined. That might not be in vogue with post 911 darkness end of the world shit but so be it.

The prequels sucked and were a downer because we were supposed to root for the dark anti hero.

tolkien's hero's and villains had a very thin line between them because a christian writer would know about the fall of man and sin. although no such words were used in his books sauron and the devil are pretty much the same and the ring as the tempter. Frodo was saved by Grace because like Bilbo he pitied Gollum and forgave him.


I agree. I'm sick of the popular views anymore that we have to have 'realistic' heroes by having them to be not that good, and the villians to be not that evil, or we are supposed to feel sorry for them. I personally like things the way they've been, where the heroes are good, the villians are evil, and not all this 'shades of gray' stuff.
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Originally posted by: Number20
Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
In this series the author said he wanted to portray the chracters realistically and not simply black or white or good vs. evil but more gray.

This is a very new age concept where you as the reader are supposed to be confused as to who the hero or villains in the story are. they tried this with wheel of time series and was somewhat unconvincing.

This is why I dislike anti hero 90's ish type characters and I love the original star wars trilogy because the bad guys and good guys are so well defined. That might not be in vogue with post 911 darkness end of the world shit but so be it.

The prequels sucked and were a downer because we were supposed to root for the dark anti hero.

tolkien's hero's and villains had a very thin line between them because a christian writer would know about the fall of man and sin. although no such words were used in his books sauron and the devil are pretty much the same and the ring as the tempter. Frodo was saved by Grace because like Bilbo he pitied Gollum and forgave him.


I agree. I'm sick of the popular views anymore that we have to have 'realistic' heroes by having them to be not that good, and the villians to be not that evil, or we are supposed to feel sorry for them. I personally like things the way they've been, where the heroes are good, the villians are evil, and not all this 'shades of gray' stuff.


I agree about the moral ambiguity problem. I thought one of the classic examples of why this leads off a cliff was in Episode III - ROTS. Obi says to Annakin "Annakin, Palpatine is EVIL!", follwed by Annakin saying "From my point of view the Jedi are evil". Of course this was all preceded by "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". What a bunch of crap.

I do however believe that the classic "Good - Bad" can also lead to bad storytelling, and would never have worked for the series in question (ASOIAF).
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Originally posted by: JediSage

I agree about the moral ambiguity problem. I thought one of the classic examples of why this leads off a cliff was in Episode III - ROTS. Obi says to Annakin "Annakin, Palpatine is EVIL!", follwed by Annakin saying "From my point of view the Jedi are evil".


Well was't the whole point of the film that Anakin was wrong? There was nothing from his 'point of view' to make the Jedi evil; misguided, perhaps, but not evil. There was no reason he couldn't quit the order to be with Padme. He was just a selfish sunnavagun who wanted to save his wife from dying so badly he ended up killing her anyway and plunging the galaxy into tyranny.

More on topic, morally ambiguous villains and heroes certainly have their place, but I do agree that the concept of the sympathetic villain and the ethically challenged hero has become a bit too common in entertainment media. I think it's a trend that's begun to swing the other way, though, for the past few years.

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Fact: There are no credible rumors AT ALL about casting.
Fact: HBO generally prefers unknowns for their series.

Really, specualtion about casting is waaaaaaaay too early. HBO has yet to give the show a green light even, they only have the rights. It will be quite a while before any plans for the actual show are set in stone at all.

Jedisage, I'm totally with you, ASOIAF is not possible without the ambiguity of the character's tendencies toward good and evil. It is one of the reasons Martin's epic is a page turner. Unlike something like Harry Potter (I am not a fan of that series AT ALL) where you know what will be happening with some givens like "harry will live" Martin keeps you totally guessing because his story is based on how people actually interact and quarrel. Very few characters are "safe" in his world (ahem to the Starks...lol) whereas other storys put in a core group of main characters early on and you can trust they will be there throughout the story. I don't know about everyone else, but that idea has tired me out because it just puts a drastic sense of fiction in stories. I know fantasy isn't supposed to be realistic all the time, but come on, you know? You lose some of the thrill if you know Mr. Potter isn't actually in danger or that the emperor won't lose to Mace Windu no matter what it looks like should happen. The ambiguity is a great thing in ASOIAF and it won't change through the rest of the series.
I just hate stupid people.

GO JETS!!!!

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If one thing is true about ASOIAF it's that Martin likes to drop characters off cliffs every once in while, which I think is good or else everything is false jeopardy. There was a hint of deus ex machina with a certain auburn haired character in the last two books, but I think he balanced it nicely by doing very, VERY bad things to this character before and after the event(s) in question. Martin always gets his pound of flesh from his players, which is nice to see. I believe wholeheartedly that jeopardy for characters we care about must be real, which is what made Babylon 5 and now BSG great.

I only mentioned D. Day Lewis because I saw it on another forum. I think "fantasy" casting can't hurt, like saying "If they make the series I'd like to see...Marcia Cross play Catelyn". Believe me, I realize more than most that we're a long way off from seeing this on film. We'll be talking about the book release of The Winds of Winter before we see "Thrones" on tv, I think.
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Originally posted by: JediSage

I agree about the moral ambiguity problem. I thought one of the classic examples of why this leads off a cliff was in Episode III - ROTS. Obi says to Annakin "Annakin, Palpatine is EVIL!", follwed by Annakin saying "From my point of view the Jedi are evil".


Well was't the whole point of the film that Anakin was wrong?


Yes, that's what the film was about, however the moral compass of the film, if not Yoda, was Obi. IMO you can't have him say 5 minutes prior that there are no moral absolutes, then say someone is "evil". It's just....clunky and contradictory.
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Well, I think Lucas wasn't really thinking when he wrote that line about absolutes--he was taking a potshot at the president, and when someone starts using their fiction as a mouthpiece, it's easy to forget things like logic and coherency.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Well, I think Lucas wasn't really thinking when he wrote that line about absolutes--he was taking a potshot at the president, and when someone starts using their fiction as a mouthpiece, it's easy to forget things like logic and coherency.


Yup!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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"If you're not with me, then you're against me"....great dialogue, and well delivered. Huhhhhhh
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Originally posted by: JediSage
"If you're not with me, then you're against me"....great dialogue, and well delivered. Huhhhhhh


Yeah, that line made Lucas seem like such a git. It is so obvious. I can imagine him sitting in his lazy-boy eating potato chips and scribbling down his script in his notebook and laughing till his gut hurt as he wrote that line.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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LOL...I remember writing just before ROTS came out that I had a vision of him riding a bomb out the back of a C-14. The bomb had Episode III written on it, and he was slapping it with his cowboy hat going "Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Haaaaaaaaaaaaaw!! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Haaaaaaaaaaaaaw!!" all the way down, ala Dr. Strangelove.
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Okay, give Lucas a minescule amount of credit--he didn't quote Jesus verbatim. The line was "If you're not with me... You're my enemy."

But yeah, he really needs to be slapped for that one.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Well, I think Lucas wasn't really thinking when he wrote that line about absolutes--he was taking a potshot at the president, and when someone starts using their fiction as a mouthpiece, it's easy to forget things like logic and coherency.


A good way to produce a crappy film, or to turn a potentially good film bad is to make it a political statement. Superman IV and Happy Feet immediately come to mind.
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Originally posted by: JediSage
LOL...I remember writing just before ROTS came out that I had a vision of him riding a bomb out the back of a C-14. The bomb had Episode III written on it, and he was slapping it with his cowboy hat going "Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Haaaaaaaaaaaaaw!! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Haaaaaaaaaaaaaw!!" all the way down, ala Dr. Strangelove.


That image is somehow really easy to summon to my mind. I don't even have to use my imagination. The only difference from the scene you described was that in my mind the bomb is plummeting into a massive mountain of money.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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skyjedi2005 said:

By the way just becuase they optioned the rights startrooper3000 that does notnecessarily mean it will get made.
Sorry that this is such an old thread resurrected, but I happened across it today and I couldn't help but chuckle!  Season 2 was ordered a little while ago : )  So I guess in the end it did get made! And no, I don't really know how to use the quote feature, so this looks funny. --StarTrooper3000
I just hate stupid people.

GO JETS!!!!

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Oh, and if you can: watch it.  It's really good!

I just hate stupid people.

GO JETS!!!!

Petition signer # 34,865