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Video Games - a general discussion thread — Page 107

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in Twilight Princess the Castle in the Sky SUX!
so I went and got all bottles,the big bomb bag,and 100 quiver arrows,now I am after the last fused shadow back at the Castle in the Sky,well I am at the Boss,and that damn Darogon is friggin tough,after this it is back to the cave of ordeals,and then bug and poe hunting.
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*SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!! THE FOLLOWING POST WAS WRITTEN BY SOMEONE WHO HAS COMPLETED TWILIGHT PRINCESS*


Man, I can't believe I'm about to write what I'm going to write. After nearly four years of anticipation, the newest Zelda game hits the shelves. I played the hell out of it, and I thought it was amazing. I did have a few minor quibbles with it: the parts that required me to play as a wolf were rather frustrating, but I was able to get past that because the rest of the game was so damn cool. The bosses, while fairly easy, kept it interesting, except the one in the Water Temple.


As I neared the end, after I collected the mirror shards, it started to go downhill, especially the battle with Zant. I was expecting to have to fight this hard-ass super-villain, and instead I get this guy that hops around squawking with this annoying jingly music in the background.

Then I get to Hyrule Castle, and the interior looks amazing. I'm expecting to be blown away, but instead, the castle is small, sparsely populated with enemies, and waaaay easier than it should have been. The final battle with Ganondorf is one of the biggest anti-climaxes I've ever experienced in a game.

Basically, it was really amazing up until the end, and then they just sort of took a dump on the ending. The story doesn't have any real payoff or anything. Honestly, I'll take Wind Waker's cartoony graphics over Twilight Princess's shitty story anyway.

It was almost like reading a Stephen King book, to be honest (only with less swearing).

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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SPOILERS!!!
##############################
Yes, I can really relate to that. Took me a couple of days until I got back to the game, to face the castle, the final dungeon. I was ready to keep playing for hours, had my bottle of water, I was confortable in the sofa, I was ready to face a 5+ hours dungeon. "OK this is it, this is going to be hard, I'm not sure I'll make it today, might take a week before I take this thing down", I thought. So I found the front door closed, oh oh bad sign, looking for keys, so I went left, there are some... goblins, easy to kill, and then I can proceed... And then some bull riding to break the fences, and some fire lightning, moving some statues, moving some statues... There's the key, I get in, I won't even bother seeing what's on the right... Facing some previous mini-bosses... I'm cool with that... OK more fire lightining, oh I'm supposed to blow this out, cool, okay... So I move in, more lizards... There's a hallway, a dragon... Okay... Then there's the BOSS CHEST right there! WTF? "This has GOT to be a trap, this dungeon is going to drive me nuts, the bridge will break or something", I thought... And then... Wow cool, Link's old pals from the pub opened the way, nice cutscene, and... I've got the Boss Key. Like, the first freaking dungeon took me longer! And it was harder to get all those monkeys! Alright so I got back, okay a door, some stairs... Lizards... Oops nowhere to go, oh no, there's a place to hook the clawshot. Easy. So... Oh a path on the wall, gotta jump before the running spikes get me... More lizards... Oh the semi-boss from the time temple again, cool, he seems to be harder now. Alright, he's dead. Oh look, a closed door, I don't have that particular key, BUT THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE THE FREAKING BOSS DOOR IS RIGHT HERE! Why?! So I just play again after I finish it? Okay let's get in, nice cutscenes, nice to see Ganondorf again. Hmn, oh no, he got Zelda's body! Oh, the dillema! Should I strike her, or should I... oh okay, nevermind, I'll just reflect the energy ball she throws at me. Hard to get the timing just right... Okay got it. Ooo, he transformed into a bull... Alright it's easy to spot his way out, I'll just throw an arrow, and okay, easy... He changed strategy, should I change form? I guess so, and there's a VISUAL CLUE on the screen asking me to press A to grab him. Easy. So he's on the field now, on his... horse. Alright so Zelda will throw arrows and I just have to follow him and strike, right? Alright, he's on foot now, so... Okay I'll just get away form him, and keep pressing A when wour swords clash. Cool, this reminds me of Rocky for the Sega Master System, just smash buttons, A, A, A... He's on the ground, let me strike him so I can see his next form, and... What? WHAT?! He's dead?!

So maybe the programmers were sick of working on the game and just came up with a quick ending. Or maybe it IS supposed to be like this, we are rewarded with an easy dungeon and an easy final boss after all the hard work finishing the game...

Still, best Zelda ever, and one of the best games I've ever played.

SPOILERS!!!!
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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*SPOILERS!!!*********************



I'm gonna have to say that Twilight Princess is my second least favorite Zelda game, slightly above Zelda 2 for NES.

Here's how I'd rank 'em:


Ocarina of Time: 10/10

A Link to the Past: 10/10

Link's Awakening: 10/10 (partly because it was my first Zelda game)

Wind Waker: 10/10

The Legend of Zelda (NES): 9/10

Majora's Mask: 9/10

Twilight Princess: 7/10

Zelda 2, The Adventures of Link: 7/10




Twilight Princess gripes/bitching:

The storyline was boring, the synth music sounded cheesy and dated, the Wind Waker sound-effect scheme didn't match up with the visual style, there was too little original content, the puzzles were too easy (or just stupid, like the one before the Master Sword I mentioned a few posts ago), the bosses were too easy, the side-quests were very unrewarding, and the ending was one huge, shitty anti-climax.

I'm sorry, but considering they worked on this game for about 4 years, this game should've been a whole lot better. There were some cool moments when they referenced Ocarina of Time, but there were some parts where they just flat-out copied Ocarina of Time (like finding the 4 ghosts in the Gerudo prison thingy).

I really can't believe I am writing this, because this is the first time I've ever been disappointed with a Zelda game.

*sigh* I'm gonna go play Wind Waker now.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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What about Oracle of Seasons and Ages? Those are both utterly amazing games just from a design standpoint. (Story wise, they're pretty average, but otherwise.)

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Yes, but I can't rate those because I haven't played them.

I also haven't played Minish Cap or Four Swords Adventures.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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I believe they're great from a design standpoint as well, but its overall story always bugged me. Just where exactly is it supposed to fit into the overall Zelda timeline, and which Link is it? It's only a (very) slightly modified engine from Link's Awakening, but it borrows themes heavily from OoT and MM. Is it supposed to make any sense? Any ideas?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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"Is it supposed to make any sense? Any ideas? "

No, it is suppose to make money. It used to be that everytime a Zelda game came out you knew you would go out and buy it the first chance you got (well, that is not including those CD-i things that nobody knew existed. But I bet had they not been so obscure, most of us would have bought them right away and a CD-i, then been sorely disappointed). For the last few years it seems they have been spitting them out left and right. I honestly have no idea how many Zelda games there are now. As a fan from the beginning, this is something I never thought I would say. I waited patiently for A Link to the Past - Mojora's Mask, and now I hardly even care any more. They used to all be made with time and care, now they realize people will buy them no matter what. Some of you here have said Windwaker is pretty good. I may have to get a Cube and try it out sometime. With the quality of Mojora I wasn't sure what to think when I heard they were making a new one, then when I saw the graphics I was very unimpressed. It is not that I didn't try it because I was close minded about the graphics, I just didn't expect it to be very good and I had never upgraded to a GameCube.

Concerning the two oracle games, the fact that two very simular Zelda games with very simular names came out at the exact same time indicates that it was a quick money job to capitalize on the Zelda name.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX

Concerning the two oracle games, the fact that two very simular Zelda games with very simular names came out at the exact same time indicates that it was a quick money job to capitalize on the Zelda name.

Except that they were freaking awesome. Seriously, from a pure gameplay standpoint, I'd rate Oracle of Ages the best in the series.

I also haven't played Minish Cap or Four Swords Adventures.


Minish Cap is really very good, but not as good as it should have been. It has a good story and some good dungeons, but it's also on the short side. FSA is sort of a dark horse, since it's designed around multiplayer; it's not a bad game, but it's limited in many ways.

I believe they're great from a design standpoint as well, but its overall story always bugged me. Just where exactly is it supposed to fit into the overall Zelda timeline


Well, there are multiple forums dedicated to debating that. I personally believe they have the same Link from ALTTP and LA, happening prior to either game. He defeats the villains in Holodrum and Labrynna, stops Ganon's revival, gets shipwrecked on the way home and has to wake the Wind Fish, then returns to Hyrule in time for Aghanim to begin his take-over.

TMC/OOT-MM/TP/TWW-TPH/FS-FSA/Oracle of Ages/Seasons - Link's Awakening - A Link to the Past/LOZ-AOL



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I'm going to have to disagree with that timeline. When has there ever been any indication that Link's Awakening was before A Link to the Past? I've always thought of LA as a sequel. The instruction manual even says so. And while the Oracle Link resembles the Link from those two games, it seems pretty incompatible, wherever it's placed. At the beginning of either Oracle game, Link is already familiar with Zelda and Impa, so that connection keeps it from being before A Link to the Past. And also, Impa was never a part of that Link's timeline. She never appeared in A Link to the Past. So I'm just not sure how that works. And what about the beginning of A Link to the Past? I thought he lived with his uncle as a normal youth before that. Or was he just crashing at his nearest relative's house upon coming into town? ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I'm going to have to disagree with that timeline. When has there ever been any indication that Link's Awakening was before A Link to the Past? I've always thought of LA as a sequel. The instruction manual even says so.

True, but remember there were only three prior Zelda games at the time. They obviously couldn't say it was the sequel to a game that would come out seven years later. The fact that the Oracle games end with link setting off on a raft like the one that he shipped-wrecked on Koholint with implies that the storywriter was retconning the Oracle games as prequels to LA.

Link is already familiar with Zelda and Impa, so that connection keeps it from being before A Link to the Past.

No, Link starts out the Oracles unfamiliar with either Impa or Zelda. But Zelda in "A Link to the Past" knows who Link is when he arrives at her prison cell.

And also, Impa was never a part of that Link's timeline. She never appeared in A Link to the Past. So I'm just not sure how that works.


Well, Oracle Impa was morbidly obese, maybe she died of a heart attack in the intervening time. No, seriously, abscence of evidence isn't evidence that she was absent from the timeline.

And what about the beginning of A Link to the Past? I thought he lived with his uncle as a normal youth before that. Or was he just crashing at his nearest relative's house upon coming into town? ^_~


Yeah, it was his uncle. I don't see how that contradicts what we see in Oracle, though. We don't learn anything of Link's origin in that game.

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The only Zelda games I have played (straight through and completed) were Zelda I, A Link To The Past and Wind Waker. Wind Waker got a little boring near the end when you have to search out the Triforce maps, but if you play through the preceding parts without getting a whole lot of weapon upgrades like the arrows, you can do them as side-quests along the way.
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It's not the same hero, this is clearly pointed out by Nintendo. It's not the same Link. Twilight Princess, for instance, takes place centuries after Ocarina of Time.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Back in my day... we didn't have these fancy graphics and Wiimotes... Compact disc? Ha! We used cartriges, and we liked it.

Sorry.

I always had it figured out like this:

Ocarina of Time

Mojora's Mask (for the young Link time line only)

The Legend of Zelda (new Link. Link meets Impa for the first time and sends him on the quest to rescue Zelda)

The Adventures of Link (Impa tells Link the Lengend of Zelda and that he is the hero of the triforce indicated by the triforce symbol on the back of his hand)

A Link to the Past (new Link. Lives with his uncle and know little about his parents. Zelda telepathically communicates with him in the middle of the night with a cry of help because she has been locked in the palace dugeon by the evil wizard. This part is definately the beginning of a new story, there is no way you could possibly make ALTTP a continuation.)

Link's Awakening (this has always been considered the sequal to ALTTP. It was originally written this way. Link saved Hyrule, his uncle is dead, so he goes off in search of more adventure and excitment. The instruction manual mentions this.)


Now with all these new games, I can see the timeline getting muddled. In The Adventures of Link they mention the decree that all first born female babies born the royal family of Hyrule are to be named Zelda. So this explains why there are so many Zelda's. The A Link to the Past comic adaption mentions the heros of Hyrule and that Link is a decendant of them. So I guess if you consider each one is related to each other and that every generation there is a boy named after Link, the first of the great heros of Hyrule. And that while there are numerous kids named Link, the games are only based off of the ones that have exciting things happen in their lives.

You really have to stretch some things to make them fit together. Perhaps the best explaination would have been that it is a legend and that these are different retellings of the same legend. The forumla is almost the same for each major game. Or an even better explaination is that they are just games, get over it, pick up a controller, and have some fun.


EDIT: Just thought I would mention, for those of you who have never played the very first Zelda game, it is still really fun to play. There is a freeware PC port availible under the name of "Zelda Classic" it has the option to use Super Nintendo style graphics for those who can't stand the old blocky NES figures. It is a very small file, works great on modern computers, and the game loads fast and can even be run in a window. I would recomend it over solitare for those lazy moments on the computer when your mind just doesn't seem to want to get any work done and your mouse constantly finds its way to the games folder in the star menu.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Yeah, obviously, but there are also some games that obviously follow-up with the same Link, like the Link in LoZ and AoL, the Link in ALTTP and LA, and the Link in OoT and MM. I'm still not sure if I accept Chaltab's reasoning (no offense). I would almost be tempted to believe that the Oracle games feature their own separate Link, although he seems to be somewhat experienced with adventuring by this point. But, if it is a different Link, I'm just curious to know if it fits anywhere with the timeline set for the rest of the series, or if it's not supposed to be thought about.

And, sorry, Chaltab, maybe he didn't know Zelda already. It's been five and a half years since I've played them (I need to play them again), so I forgot. But I have one more question for you. I've never played Minish Cap before, so what puts it as the very first Zelda chronologically? I'm just curious.

EDIT (to C3PX): Actually, the ALTTP and LA Link and Zelda were usually accepted to be predecessors to the original games, not a sequel. And, in turn, Ocarina of Time was considered a prequel to ALTTP. Also, Link's uncle isn't dead! They have this strange occurrence at the end of the game where everybody who died came back to life mysteriously. In fact, there's a screen in the ending of Link and his uncle standing in front of their house, sheating their swords, with the caption reading, "Your Uncle Recovers." This also occurs with the priest at Sanctuary and the King of Hyrule. I think it's a bit silly to have everyone come back to life, but what are you going to do?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yeah, obviously, but there are also some games that obviously follow-up with the same Link, like the Link in LoZ and AoL, the Link in ALTTP and LA, and the Link in OoT and MM. I'm still not sure if I accept Chaltab's reasoning (no offense). I would almost be tempted to believe that the Oracle games feature their own separate Link, although he seems to be somewhat experienced with adventuring by this point. But, if it is a different Link, I'm just curious to know if it fits anywhere with the timeline set for the rest of the series, or if it's not supposed to be thought about.

And, sorry, Chaltab, maybe he didn't know Zelda already. It's been five and a half years since I've played them (I need to play them again), so I forgot. But I have one more question for you. I've never played Minish Cap before, so what puts it as the very first Zelda chronologically? I'm just curious.

EDIT (to C3PX): Actually, the ALTTP and LA Link and Zelda were usually accepted to be predecessors to the original games, not a sequel. And, in turn, Ocarina of Time was considered a prequel to ALTTP. Also, Link's uncle isn't dead! They have this strange occurrence at the end of the game where everybody who died came back to life mysteriously. In fact, there's a screen in the ending of Link and his uncle standing in front of their house, sheating their swords, with the caption reading, "Your Uncle Recovers." This also occurs with the priest at Sanctuary and the King of Hyrule. I think it's a bit silly to have everyone come back to life, but what are you going to do?


Ah, the reasoning for me to have The first Zelda game come before A Link to the Past, is that Impa is a very old woman. In Ocarina of Time she is very young. They could be the same Impa, who has lived to be very old and served her whole life taking care of the princesses of Hyrule. Or it could be a grand daughter who was named after her grandmother. If you push her too far down the timeline, the continueing of the name Impa gets a little far out there, new Links and Zeldas ever generation is a little more believible. However you have the problem of Gannon being stuck in the dark world, where you find him in A Link to the Past, so I admit, it probably works better to ALttP come after Ocarina. Not to mention, Ocarina more or less tells the back story we read about in the manual for ALttP about the gods creating Hyrule and Ganondorf having been a king of theives.

And about Link's uncle comming back, it has been a long time since I played ALttP but now that you mention it I remember the uncle on the porch with Link at the end. I have read the Nintendo Power comic book (in which Link's uncle's death is made very clear) countless times and I often mix up story elements from the two with out thinking.


EDIT: Oh, and I heard that the Oracle games were originally suppose to be remakes of the two NES games, this would explain why Impa meets you at the beginning of one of them. But I think they abandoned that idea. Having not played them, I can't really say where they should fit into the timeline, but based on what I have heard about them, they could probably fit in with the NES games. I have not played them, but since I have a gameboy and they can be bought quite inexpensively now, I might have to go pick one up sometime soon. Chaltab, which one would you suggest, seasons or ages? Or which one is suppose to take place first chronologically? This is why I never bought them before, because there where two and I never knew which to get. If there would have been only one of them to start with, I think I would have bought it long ago. The two games at once reminded me to much of the Pokemon thing.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX

Chaltab, which one would you suggest, seasons or ages? Or which one is suppose to take place first chronologically? This is why I never bought them before, because there where two and I never knew which to get. If there would have been only one of them to start with, I think I would have bought it long ago. The two games at once reminded me to much of the Pokemon thing.

Well, they're both excellent games. Ages is more puzzle heavy and is more difficult throughout most of the game. Seasons focuses more on combat and is a bit easier until the final boss. Chronologically, they literally happen in whatever order you play them in; once you beat one of them, you get a password that allows you to continue the story to the next game, including taking some items with you and getting to face the True Final Boss. (For this reason, Zelda timeline speculators tend to group them together as OOX.)

And, sorry, Chaltab, maybe he didn't know Zelda already. It's been five and a half years since I've played them (I need to play them again), so I forgot. But I have one more question for you. I've never played Minish Cap before, so what puts it as the very first Zelda chronologically? I'm just curious.


The game tells the origins of Vaati from the Four Sword games; nobody seems to have heard of the Triforce or the Master Sword. The game revolves around forging your White Sword into the Four Sword. There is no Death Mountain, and the Gorons in the game say they used to live in the only mountain in the game, Mt. Crenel, which is in the North West, whereas Death Mountain is usually in the North East (Even in Twilight Princess it's in the East in the GC version). Also, there is only one Hero of Legend, the 'Hero of Men', who doesn't wear cap; the finale of the game has Ezlo (formerly your hat, now humanoid again) passing his cap on to you, as if this Link is the first to wear the green cap.

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I just watched this Retrospective on YouTube, and they spend the last part trying to come up with a timeline for Zelda, including explaining why Minish Cap is first. Could this be the basis for your theory, Chaltab?

But I did think of another reason why Link's Awakening should be after A Link to the Past. The game takes place as a dream of Link, and a lot of the activity is based off of his memories. He faces a lot of enemies and bosses first seen in A Link to the Past including, most importantly of all, Shadow Agahnim, whose real counterpart only appears in A Link to the Past. One could argue this is a prophetic type of dream, but it makes more sense to me that it would be revived in his nightmares.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I just watched this Retrospective on YouTube, and they spend the last part trying to come up with a timeline for Zelda, including explaining why Minish Cap is first. Could this be the basis for your theory, Chaltab?

No, I've thought TMC was the earliest since I played it. It's a fairly popular placement at Zelda Legends, or at least it was until someone decided that the similarities in graphic design were a totally valid way of determining the timeline.

But I did think of another reason why Link's Awakening should be after A Link to the Past. The game takes place as a dream of Link, and a lot of the activity is based off of his memories. He faces a lot of enemies and bosses first seen in A Link to the Past including, most importantly of all, Shadow Agahnim, whose real counterpart only appears in A Link to the Past. One could argue this is a prophetic type of dream, but it makes more sense to me that it would be revived in his nightmares.


True. Prophetic type dream is indeed my reasoning. (Not that anything in LA really makes much sense.)

Honestly, the best argument against my timeline is the Triforce. In Oracle it starts out in a shrine or castle, but in ALTTP it's in the Pyramid of Power. For mine to work, I have to assume that while Link was gone saving the other nations, The Triforce somehow entered the Dark World and was found by Ganon.

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This retrospective I found put the Oracle games at the very end of the timeline, with each scenario co-existing simultaneously in the two alternating timelines set in motion by OoT.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Yeah, but that's intrinsically flawed considering that they're connected by story.

SPOILERS





Twinrova were using Veran and Onox to light the fires of Sorrow and Desctruction; then they could sacrifice Zelda, lighting the Flame of Despair and reviving Ganon.






SPOILERS








Since C3PX hasn't played them.

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I never thought the games were really supposed to be on a timeline (except OoT and WW). I just thought they followed the same formula as the James Bond movies: same characters, same overall situation, different unrelated stories.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Yeah, when you have something as popular as this that extends for as many years and through as many designers and programers as Zelda has been through, it is impossible to weave a tight story. Just like the Bond films. It is sometimes just better to sit down and enjoy them.

To contradict my above sentence,

When is Windwaker and Twilight Princess suppose to take place?

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Yeah, but that's intrinsically flawed considering that they're connected by story.


Sorry, I didn't clarify. They exist in both timelines, but depending on which timeline, one comes before the other, and that covers the bases of which game you play first. It sounds a little silly and rationalizing, but it's the only way I can justify the similar introductions of checking on the Triforce in a temple that occurs in both games, etc.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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True, and, THAT makes perfect sense in a split timeline.

Originally posted by: C3PX

When is Windwaker and Twilight Princess suppose to take place?


Wind Waker takes place hundreds of years after Ocarina of Time, and is essentially a direct sequel thematically.

Before Twilight Princess was released, the developers said that it takes place decades after Ocarina of Time, but before Wind Waker. This may have changed in the interim; what I've seen of the TP overworld so far, it's clear that the world of TP is more than a few decades farther along than Ocarina was. Hyrule Castle is much larger, the Castle Town has a larger population, and the valley where Kakariko rests has been made wider. Gaffer and Nanner can probably be more helpful on this, since I don't know if the end of the game has any bearing on the placement in the timeline.

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