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The Go-Mer-Tonic™ Thread - Today's Topic: Whose your favorite author and why? — Page 2

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Much better, Cable. Now we wont have to fire you. We might even invite you back to become a guest host again.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
Much better, Cable. Now we wont have to fire you. We might even invite you back to become a guest host again.

Thank you sir!!!


I have to say this thread is facinating.

Gee....didn't see that one coming.

What's great about me is I tend to take the opposing side.


Yeah.....doing that tends to start trouble.....which is what trolls often do.

What's great about this thread, is I get to see how you guys see the other side of your arguments.


It is great to look at the other point of view and realize that it's still stupid.

So much anger, so much self riteousness.

Such intricate displays of the human condition as it exists today.


You keep coming up with this anger stuff. Where are you seeing anger? Are you sure you're not misinterpreting something? Could be the sign of a mental illness....

Self-RIGHTEOUSNESS....I love when people bring this up. Wanna know how to dismiss people easily with little or no argument....call them self-righteous or judgemental. It's the pussy way out of actually presenting, arguing and defending your views....provided you have any to begin with.

And what is the ideal human condition you would like to see displayed, Gomer? Everything you allude to makes me think you believe in some fairy tale world of humanity where everything is fair and balanced and everyone does the right thing cuz it's the right thing to do. You're not a...gasp...Trekkie, are you? Now that's a bullshit fantasy world...
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Yeah, to address the trekkie comment. I love the contrast between Star Wars and Star Trek. In Star Wars the one world government is evil, cold, and totalitarian. In Star Trek the one world government is straight out of John Lennon's 'Imagine'. In reality:

SW= the way it really would be
ST = complete fantasy

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I agree that it is difficult and impossible to rehabilitate a person like a child molester or a serial rapist. The desires that make them compelled to do those things are a part of them in the same way that all of our sexual habits and orientation are part of us. You can't habilitate a gay to be straight, you can't habilitate a straight to be gay and you can't habilitate a pedophile to be normal--in the true sense of the word. But capital punishment is not the answer. Because you can habilitate them to control those desires. If heterosexuality was outlawed today, we would not be able to truely habilitate the heterosexual population to be gay, simply because they are not. But you could brainwash and control them to either engage in homosexual activities, even if they are not truely homosexual, or refrain from heterosexual activity. I think people in these circumstances can be trained to function in society--you can't cure them, but you can control and manipulate them to consciously refrain from their habits. They will still be dangerous in the sense that there is the potential that they could strike again, because deep down the desires are still there. Thats why most forms of "rehabilitation" seek to repress and control said desires so that they have been relegated to such a level that they can be confidently controlled--sometimes this works, and the offenders are released and become worthwhile members of society. Sometimes this doesn't work and they are never released. Sometimes this appears to work, they are released, and then they strike again. It is easier just to "kill them all and let god sort them out" but i like to think that in a supposedly civilised society we are prepared to spend more money to lock them up than to commit murder.

As this relates to Go-Mer, of course he will always be Go-Mer. I have known him from the TFN days since 1999 or so, and he hasn't changed one iota in those 8 years, and we won't ever. We can only hope that he merely refrains from posting stupidity, which indeed he has to a certain degree if you could see him on TFN circa 2001.
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ferris, that was a fantastic post. I had no idea you were a cop, that makes your perspective so much more valuable on things like this. You gave me a lot more to think about. Unfortunately a lot of people are too soft hearted to even consider giving the death penalty to such sexual deviants. One of my fields of study was sociology, so I have studied a lot about human behavior, and you are right, you don't change something so deeply rooted in a person as their sexuality. This is something developed at a young age, from that point on it is for the most part hardwired into their brains.

I would be interested to know what you think of the death penalty in cases like Timothy McVeigh?


"Whew, hope I didn't ruin ya'lls day with this rant. Sorry, I just have to let it out occasionally."

Not at all! Please feel free to rant in here anytime you want. I started this thread half in jest, but I truly hoped it would develop into some decent discussions, hopefully with out the circular meandering the global warming thread eventually succumed to.

EDIT:

Zombie: "But you could brainwash and control them to either engage in homosexual activities, even if they are not truely homosexual, or refrain from heterosexual activity."

In such a case, are they even really themselves any longer? That sexual deviance will always be there, tucked away some place. I know it is a very hard morality question, and not something to be taken lightly. When an animal attacks a human, it is always put down. If a wild bear attacks a person it now knows the taste of blood and will now inevitably do it a second time. This bear is now always a threat as long as it lives. There is no changing it. However, there is a distinction between human and animal, I don't feel this is something to be debated. But what is the cost of keeping this man around? How many lives has he already ruined? And how many more does he have the potential to ruin? If he is rehabilitated, reintegrated into society, and one day reverts back to his old tendancies, was it worth the effort to reintegrate him only to have him ruin another life several years down the road?



"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX

I would be interested to know what you think of the death penalty in cases like Timothy McVeigh?


The way I see is that McVeigh was a decorated honorable soldier who in a few short years became a mass murderer of 168 women, children, and men. He was not only guilty of murdering those eight federal officers, but he was also guilty of treason and that necessitates the death penalty. Yes, human life is precious which is why guys like McVeigh should be done away with when they kill on such a level.
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Sorry to have skipped over your post, ferris209 with my own silly post, but what you said was indeed insightful. I doubt people like Gomer have the benefit of your experience. I'd listen to you before I'd listen to stupidity like his.

I have to ask something though.....is it really the legal system that needs an overhaul like so many say or should something really be done about all the lawyers who I think certainly have fucked things up more than anyone else has?

I've always thought it was the lawyers and you say that they would be all over you if so much as a misspelled word was on your report. To me, that's just ridiculous. To release someone who is clearly guilty over something so mundane is retarded beyond belief.

We appreciate what you bring to the table. And I agree that people like Gomer are dangerous. They have their heads up their ass and need to get down in the shit and see how things really are. Problems don't get solved by being a pussy and using kid gloves. You have to nip the problem in the ass and that takes tough people sometimes. People like Gomer aren't tough, they're soft and shit just gets worse when you're soft.

Come on Gomer....get your ass in here and try to take on ferris209's point of view!!!

As this relates to Go-Mer, of course he will always be Go-Mer. I have known him from the TFN days since 1999 or so, and he hasn't changed one iota in those 8 years, and we won't ever. We can only hope that he merely refrains from posting stupidity, which indeed he has to a certain degree if you could see him on TFN circa 2001.


Tell us about some of this stupidity that he said....I'm oddly curious.
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I didn't intend for this to be Gomer bashing. I think this thread has taken on an interesting discussion and it would be ashame to delude that with gomer bashing. If Gomer wants to post and debate, he of course is free to do so. If he wants to bring up a topic to debate he may. Right now I think the current topic in discussion is rather interesting and wouldn't mind hearing what others have to say.

To address ferris' addressing of my question,

I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that McVeigh even condoned his own death. I don't remember his exact words though. Do you think his time as a soilder had anything to do with his snapping? I have heard people defend him with this argument, that it was the governments fault he learned to kill and become comfortable with it. This argument has some pretty obvious faults to it, not even including the fact that not every soldier who has been trained to kill goes around killing people.

I suppose if Oklahoma did not still support the death penalty, or if this happened in a state that did not, he would still be eating stakes and enjoying a heated cell.

I don't see how people can argue that somebody like McVeigh deserves a second chance. I don't care how uncivilized we are as a society, it just doesn't make since to save somebody like that in hopes that they may one day become a better person. In cases of mass murder with undisputed proof, I think it is silly to even argue on their behalf.


You mentioned that if you so much as misspell of word, the lawyer are all over you. This is really ashame. I know a lot of our legal crap in America really gets in the way. I know a guy who is a police officer. About two years ago an officer from his precinct was driving with his sirens on speeding toward a reported rape, and a car full of teenage girls pulled out in front of him and they crashed. Fortunately nobody was hurt badly, and the rape turned out to be a false report. The girls should have gotten in trouble for not yeilding to an emergency vehicle, but instead they sued the police. Last time I talked to my friend they were still in the middle of sorting this thing out over a year after it happened. I have known this guy for years, and usually he is a fairly up beat guy, but for the last to years he has seemed like he has been wound to the point of snapping. They have been under constant flames from everyone for what happened, and of course the local media sided with the girls.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
Sorry to have skipped over your post, ferris209 with my own silly post, but what you said was indeed insightful. I doubt people like Gomer have the benefit of your experience. I'd listen to you before I'd listen to stupidity like his.

I have to ask something though.....is it really the legal system that needs an overhaul like so many say or should something really be done about all the lawyers who I think certainly have fucked things up more than anyone else has?

I've always thought it was the lawyers and you say that they would be all over you if so much as a misspelled word was on your report. To me, that's just ridiculous. To release someone who is clearly guilty over something so mundane is retarded beyond belief.

We appreciate what you bring to the table. And I agree that people like Gomer are dangerous. They have their heads up their ass and need to get down in the shit and see how things really are. Problems don't get solved by being a pussy and using kid gloves. You have to nip the problem in the ass and that takes tough people sometimes. People like Gomer aren't tough, they're soft and shit just gets worse when you're soft.

Come on Gomer....get your ass in here and try to take on ferris209's point of view!!!

As this relates to Go-Mer, of course he will always be Go-Mer. I have known him from the TFN days since 1999 or so, and he hasn't changed one iota in those 8 years, and we won't ever. We can only hope that he merely refrains from posting stupidity, which indeed he has to a certain degree if you could see him on TFN circa 2001.


Tell us about some of this stupidity that he said....I'm oddly curious.


Well, the problem admittedly is the lawyers who have exploited and played the system against itself time and time again. As to about my misspelled word comment, I don't think anyone would be released on any serious offense for that, but the defense attorneys will use that to try and make an officer look incompetent. i.e.

Attorney: So Officer Baker, I noticed that you misspelled "marijuana" in your report.
Officer: Yes sir, that must have been a clerical error on my part.
Attorney: So did you not review your report before you turned it in?
Officer: Yes sir, but I may have missed that.
Attorney: Could it be Officer Baker that if you can miss that you are capable of missing other things as well.
Officer: Well, yes sir.
Attorney: So you admit to having not only spelled this incorrectly, but then you failed to notice your mistake upon reviewing it.
Officer: Yes sir.
Attorney: Pass the witness your Honor.

The attorney will continuously do this line of questioning always trying to make the officer look stupid to the judge and jury. I could cite SO MANY instances where this almost or entirely bogged cases down. Not only that there are some things in our systems that I think could be changed for example the unanimous jury verdicts in criminal trials. This is plaguing our justice system and so many people are walking free because of that one radical jerk on a jury who does not want to say "guilty". Federal law requires that federally prosecuted cases have a unanimous verdict, meaning all of the six or twelve jurors must vote guilty. If even one votes not guilty, then it can lead to a hung jury. Now states are not required to have this unanimous verdict clause, but almost all of them do, including my home state of Texas. This leads to problems for example, I was the initial officer on the scene of a Child Molestation case where I took the initial report, long story short after obtaining confirmation from the Doctor that the 8 year had been sexually assaulted and she could detail the several sexual interactions with her Uncle, the prosecution was set forth. Months later a jury was selected and, somehow, one guy got on there who for some unknown reason would not vote guilty despite. This forced the trial to end up hung and the bastard walked out unscathed. Sure the trial was a mistrial he was prosecuted again almost a year later, but he walked the streets for another year possibly molesting other kids before we were able to send his ass down. Now after two years in jail, he just got out and registered in at the PD as a sex offender. Where is the justice for the now eleven year old girl who is scarred for life because of this low life's sexual desire for little girls. It is sickening and each day I spend on the front lines, the harder it gets. Back to my point, it took almost two years, countless man hours for the officers, prosecutors, court appointed attorneys, and tax dollars spent for that son of a bitch to get put in jail for a measly two years and then released back out to prey on our kids. I wish the justice system would invoke a non unanimous jury which requires an 80% vote, meaning if five of the six jurors or ten of the twelve vote guilty, the bastard is guilty. Fact is, it needs to fixed all the way around, but what is the fix and how can it be put in place. It may never happen because it is a slippery slope. Get too harsh and we become a police state, however, you get too liberal and we get ravaged in crime and all become victims, there is no easy solution.
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Originally posted by: C3PX
I didn't intend for this to be Gomer bashing. I think this thread has taken on an interesting discussion and it would be ashame to delude that with gomer bashing. If Gomer wants to post and debate, he of course is free to do so. If he wants to bring up a topic to debate he may. Right now I think the current topic in discussion is rather interesting and wouldn't mind hearing what others have to say.

To address ferris' addressing of my question,

I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that McVeigh even condoned his own death. I don't remember his exact words though. Do you think his time as a soilder had anything to do with his snapping? I have heard people defend him with this argument, that it was the governments fault he learned to kill and become comfortable with it. This argument has some pretty obvious faults to it, not even including the fact that not every soldier who has been trained to kill goes around killing people.

I suppose if Oklahoma did not still support the death penalty, or if this happened in a state that did not, he would still be eating stakes and enjoying a heated cell.

I don't see how people can argue that somebody like McVeigh deserves a second chance. I don't care how uncivilized we are as a society, it just doesn't make since to save somebody like that in hopes that they may one day become a better person. In cases of mass murder with undisputed proof, I think it is silly to even argue on their behalf.


You mentioned that if you so much as misspell of word, the lawyer are all over you. This is really ashamed. I know a lot of our legal crap in America really gets in the way. I know a guy who is a police officer. About two years ago an officer from his precinct was driving with his sirens on speeding toward a reported rape, and a car full of teenage girls pulled out in front of him and they crashed. Fortunately nobody was hurt badly, and the rape turned out to be a false report. The girls should have gotten in trouble for not yeilding to an emergency vehicle, but instead they sued the police. Last time I talked to my friend they were still in the middle of sorting this thing out over a year after it happened. I have known this guy for years, and usually he is a fairly up beat guy, but for the last to years he has seemed like he has been wound to the point of snapping. They have been under constant flames from everyone for what happened, and of course the local media sided with the girls.


As far as McViegh, yes the military teaches people to kill those who threaten the safety and security of America not American children and Americans who pose no threat. This is bad resoning and logic to me. yes, they are trained to kill, but they are also trained that they must kill for a reason. Granted when they have millions of soldiers, you will train a few bad eggs, that is a risk, but the drill Sergeants and other recruits should pick up on any psychotic behavior and report it to weed them out.

As far as your friend, I can relate. Civilians almost always will never understand that Cops are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, if you drive too slow someone could get hurt, if you drive too fast someone might get hurt. Just as you wrote above, it is so hard to be a cop and not get bitter because you feel like all of your work is for nothing. You go to work and don't get paid that much, granted I make a living, but is that money worth the fact that my wife could lose a husband? I've already buried a fellow officer and friend who had a pregnant wife. Then I go back to work and have to get my butt reamed every other day because some citizen saw me go by his house and he thought I was driving too fast or I may have used a cuss word on a punk 16 kid who had never had his ass whipped by his passive parents. Guys, I'm so sorry, but it is just so hard not to get burned out. It just gets so frustrating because when I first put that badge on, I had all the typical rookie ideas that I was gonna save the world. Years later I find, I can't even make a dent due to politics, legal loopholes, biased media reports who seem to all hate cops, irate citizens who think we are robots and not people, administrators who are scared of lawsuits and worried about their own political standings and retirements. But regardless of all that, I know I'll get up tonight at 8 p.m., take a shower, put the vest, badge and gun on and go do it again. Why? because even though I feel that all my work is worthless, I know that occasionally I'll save that child from pervert, I'll save that family of four from being killed by a guy going 90 mph, I will prevent somebody's house from being burglarized after I stop and arrest the criminal for a minor warrant. Although i may sound bitter as times guys, my heart is still in it, and I don't think I'll do anything else.
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ferris209...

It might not seem like much, man....but THANK YOU for all that you do. I know it's not easy. Cops deal with far too much shit and they barely get a pot to piss in. You've got your belly full and you're still going out there and making a difference. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it you are, but just by being there you are. There are lots of idiots out there who cry and moan about every little thing a cop does.

Don't think that what you do goes unnoticed!!! Thanks for holding the line!!!
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
ferris209...

It might not seem like much, man....but THANK YOU for all that you do. I know it's not easy. Cops deal with far too much shit and they barely get a pot to piss in. You've got your belly full and you're still going out there and making a difference. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it you are, but just by being there you are. There are lots of idiots out there who cry and moan about every little thing a cop does.

Don't think that what you do goes unnoticed!!! Thanks for holding the line!!!


I sure appreciate it, I really do appreciate it. But I ain't looking for a pat on the back by any means, I know I chose what I do and was not forced, rather compelled, to do it. I'm sure I'll always do it and in the end, I'm sure it will have all been worth it.
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I know what you mean. Everyone need some positive reinforcement though.....it's good to know that someone out there is thinking about what you do and not taking it for granted.

About that McVeigh thing though...didn't he have some gripe with the government and that's why he did it? I can't remember exactly...
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Originally posted by: ferris209
Originally posted by: Cable-X1
ferris209...

It might not seem like much, man....but THANK YOU for all that you do. I know it's not easy. Cops deal with far too much shit and they barely get a pot to piss in. You've got your belly full and you're still going out there and making a difference. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it you are, but just by being there you are. There are lots of idiots out there who cry and moan about every little thing a cop does.

Don't think that what you do goes unnoticed!!! Thanks for holding the line!!!


I sure appreciate it, I really do appreciate it. But I ain't looking for a pat on the back by any means, I know I chose what I do and was not forced, rather compelled, to do it. I'm sure I'll always do it and in the end, I'm sure it will have all been worth it.



Yes ferris, I too am thankful we have men like you out there. That fact you choose to do this because you want to make a difference, it is great. If we didn't have people like you, we would be in for a lot of trouble. Since the incident that happened to my friend's PD, I have really begun to see what kinds of crap we all put you through. It is really sad. It is great to hear your perspective!


Cable said: "About that McVeigh thing though...didn't he have some gripe with the government and that's why he did it? I can't remember exactly..."

I read somewhere that he was a bit of an SW fan, and liked to consider the government the "Evil Empire" and felt himself like Luke and the rebellion with a duty to bring down the Empire. I am not sure how true the Star Wars thing is, but he was anti-government.


"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I think that there are some cases where a death penalty makes sense. I just worry about the error rate in applying it.

That's a very serious thing to mess up. Maybe the benefit of ridding the world of the worst of the worst makes the occasioanal mis application justified. There have been cases for example where the wrong man got the death penalty and it only came out after the execution.

I would not want to be the jury or executioner in those cases.

Sure someone who runs around killing other people (not in self defense) probably deserve to be killed themselves.

It's just as I have said before, I don't hold myself in high enough esteem to make that kind of call myself.

Ferris, you made some great points, and I generally agree with what you are saying.

As far as the stupid stuff I said on TFN back in the day, I just basically maintained that the prequels were awesome, and I flamed people who dissed them.

Since I have realized how close minded and self centered that approach was, and while I do still think the prequels kicked ass, I don't think there is something fundamentally wrong with people who don't.

It's just a matter of opinion.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think that there are some cases where a death penalty makes sense. I just worry about the error rate in applying it.


Most people who have gotten the death penalty have indisputable evidence against them. Name a concrete case with a website or some document we can see, to back up your claim that an innocent has been given the death penalty, but was found innocent after the fact. Don't speak in vagues. Only give us concrete evidence or shut the fuck up. If you want to get all high and mighty about it, then at least back up your claims about the innocent person.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think that there are some cases where a death penalty makes sense. I just worry about the error rate in applying it.

That's a very serious thing to mess up. Maybe the benefit of ridding the world of the worst of the worst makes the occasioanal mis application justified. There have been cases for example where the wrong man got the death penalty and it only came out after the execution.

I would not want to be the jury or executioner in those cases.

Sure someone who runs around killing other people (not in self defense) probably deserve to be killed themselves.

It's just as I have said before, I don't hold myself in high enough esteem to make that kind of call myself.

Ferris, you made some great points, and I generally agree with what you are saying.

As far as the stupid stuff I said on TFN back in the day, I just basically maintained that the prequels were awesome, and I flamed people who dissed them.

Since I have realized how close minded and self centered that approach was, and while I do still think the prequels kicked ass, I don't think there is something fundamentally wrong with people who don't.

It's just a matter of opinion.



Good post Gomer (never thought I'd see the day! j/k)

You are right, it is no small matter. The error rate you mentioned would be something very rare. Look how many years it took before they killed McVeigh. It isn't something that rushed, there is a long wait to ensure that these errors don't happen. You said it has happened before that somebody was wrongly given the death penalty. Can you name a specific case? I am not doubting that it is possible, I just don't remember ever hearing about any cases like this. In recent history at least.

If you keep as level headed as your last post Gomer, I think you will find that your popularity as a poster will increase greatly. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with other members, but there are times to let an opinion be an opinion, and plenty of people here are guilty of holding opinions against others. At the moment we are talking about a very controversial topic, and so far some have stated their disagreement with what has been said and it has still remained a peacful and enjoyable conversation. You don't have to take the oposite side just to hear what somebody might think about something (as you have admited to doing). I completely agreed with ferris that McVeigh deserved the death penalty, but I wanted to know his opinion on the subject, so I just asked him.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Thanks C3PX, I do try to keep level headed. But sometimes when I get tired and cranky, it's not so easy.

I don't have facts handy, I thought it was an accepted truth that the death penalty has claimed the occasional wrongfully accused.

If I'm wrong about that, then I'm wrong about that.
Your focus determines your reality.
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There's no doubt it has, which is why I only support the death penalty in cases where it's obvious beyond all doubt that the victim is guilty as sin. (IE the OJ Simpson case)

It's best to err on the side of caution than to excecute an innocent person.

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Yes, but one cannot ever be too sure---------which is the sad part, but one fact is that "accidental" executions are almost obolsete, and the ones many are rerfering too are executions made durring the past 20 years for people that have been sentenced to death in the 70's and Dna testing has proved them inoccent. Now, if your sentenced to death, its almost flawless evidence that you did it, Dna or not.
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I think this thread has been a great intervention for Gomer, he made a sane statement and I am proud of him. WESHALLPRESERVE hit it right on the head, I do not believe that anyone would be put to Death in our modern age without adequate, rock solid proof. Sure, there may have been several wrong death punishments back 50 years ago or maybe even in the 70's, but since I think things have really been ironed out.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

I don't have facts handy, I thought it was an accepted truth that the death penalty has claimed the occasional wrongfully accused.


Nothing is accepted without cold, hard evidence to back it up. Don't make assumptions.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

I don't have facts handy, I thought it was an accepted truth that the death penalty has claimed the occasional wrongfully accused.


Nothing is accepted without cold, hard evidence to back it up. Don't make assumptions.
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
There's no doubt it has, which is why I only support the death penalty in cases where it's obvious beyond all doubt that the victim is guilty as sin. (IE the OJ Simpson case)

It's best to err on the side of caution than to excecute an innocent person.


Instead of applying the death penalty, why not have the person locked forever on some place, working as a slave planting something or producing something? Wouldn't that be more productive?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
There's no doubt it has, which is why I only support the death penalty in cases where it's obvious beyond all doubt that the victim is guilty as sin. (IE the OJ Simpson case)

It's best to err on the side of caution than to excecute an innocent person.


Instead of applying the death penalty, why not have the person locked forever on some place, working as a slave planting something or producing something? Wouldn't that be more productive?


That is an alternative I suggested. But quite honestly, I am not sure how well it would work, and it is very unlikely they would be able to support themselves fully. So very likely they would still be sucking up tax dollars. Even if you had them working a 8 hour work day, you can bet people are going to be crying out foul for making them preform slave labor, or at the very least might say that the prisoner should get his money sent to his own family or transfered into a private bank account rather than going to the prison system.

If we could lock them away in some obscure location where they could work in something like "sweat shops" producing cheap labor for companies to profit from, then this could be a very interesting alternative. But you know there will be constant protests against the use of prisoner labor, even if it is only reserved for extreme death penalty level cases.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape