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Ep 3 death star !
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Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Yes it is bizzare that the second death star took only four years to complete...but it could only destroy ships. An imperial union strike must have ended between episodes 3 and 4.
Yes it is bizzare that the second death star took only four years to complete...but it could only destroy ships. An imperial union strike must have ended between episodes 3 and 4.
DSII was twice the size as the first Death Star......you seem to think it could only destroy ships partly because that's the only thing it was showed destroying.....you know what happens when you assume something, don't you?
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Originally posted by: vbangle
DSII was twice the size as the first Death Star......you seem to think it could only destroy ships partly because that's the only thing it was showed destroying.....you know what happens when you assume something, don't you?
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Yes it is bizzare that the second death star took only four years to complete...but it could only destroy ships. An imperial union strike must have ended between episodes 3 and 4.
Yes it is bizzare that the second death star took only four years to complete...but it could only destroy ships. An imperial union strike must have ended between episodes 3 and 4.
DSII was twice the size as the first Death Star......you seem to think it could only destroy ships partly because that's the only thing it was showed destroying.....you know what happens when you assume something, don't you?
Yeah, its not like they had a planet to test it on. In any case, I remember that in one draft (or maybe the novel or something like that), Palpatine ordered Jerjerrod to turn the Death Star on Endor if the shield were to be destroyed. So there.
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The standard online reference for the Death Stars is here.
* Or maybe the EU has decided that it was the Death Star prototype, later relocated to the Maw and repeatedly retrofitted by Bevel Lemelisk and Qwi Xux. I really don't know, or care that much.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
The EU can come up with whatever contrived explanation it wants but the fact is that by the films themselves, nothing about either Death Star construction makes any sense. At the end of ROTS its about 25% built--you have the main inner superstructure, which is the most major section of the construction, plus a good start on the outer and inner hulls. So how long has this thing been under construction for? Since the ten year period when Palpatine came into office? We don't know. Then its complete twenty years later but it gets blown up and then in a couple years another even bigger one is nearly complete. Were they both constructed at the same time? How the hell did they build the other one so fast? Nothing is ever even mentioned about this huge development. You have clutch at straws and invent your own explanation to fill these holes--"oh they learned a lot from the first construction," "oh there was labor difficulties and rebel insurgents" etc. You might as well not even have plot continuity if you are just going to be doing this.
The EU can come up with whatever contrived explanation it wants but the fact is that by the films themselves, nothing about either Death Star construction makes any sense. At the end of ROTS its about 25% built--you have the main inner superstructure, which is the most major section of the construction, plus a good start on the outer and inner hulls. So how long has this thing been under construction for? Since the ten year period when Palpatine came into office? We don't know. Then its complete twenty years later but it gets blown up and then in a couple years another even bigger one is nearly complete. Were they both constructed at the same time? How the hell did they build the other one so fast? Nothing is ever even mentioned about this huge development. You have clutch at straws and invent your own explanation to fill these holes--"oh they learned a lot from the first construction," "oh there was labor difficulties and rebel insurgents" etc. You might as well not even have plot continuity if you are just going to be doing this.
Well, that is just the way I heard it justified. However, I have heard stated a couple times that the scene at the end of ROTS where Palpy and Vader are viewing the Deathstar 1 was out of sequence and that that event occured a couple years after Obi Wan gave over Luke to Owen. Maybe a fanedit version could put the Vader and Palpy scene as the final scene just after Luke gets handed over. I think that would work better anyway.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
The EU can come up with whatever contrived explanation it wants but the fact is that by the films themselves, nothing about either Death Star construction makes any sense. ... So how long has this thing been under construction for? Since the ten year period when Palpatine came into office? We don't know. Then its complete twenty years later
The EU can come up with whatever contrived explanation it wants but the fact is that by the films themselves, nothing about either Death Star construction makes any sense. ... So how long has this thing been under construction for? Since the ten year period when Palpatine came into office? We don't know. Then its complete twenty years later
If you're just going by the movies themselves -- Episode III wasn't a film, it was a digital video -- then the "thing" wasn't completed 20 years later. The "thing" was abandoned and replaced with something else that had a different shape and a larger superlaser. The only way the RotS thing could be the Death Star is if they added another shell around the extant structure to make it oblate and make the superlaser dish larger, or if they tore most of it down and rebuilt it. Personally, I think the RotS battlestation was a prototype -- it was either spirited away to the Maw like the EU says, or it was tested to destruction long before the real DS project began.
I mean, realistically, you don't build just one of these things, put a Grand Moff aboard, and send it out to destroy things. You have to prototype and test the power systems, the propulsion systems, the computers, all kinds of stuff that's being done on a scale the Galactic culture had probably never done before. You have a test article that you're constantly rebuilding and stressing to its design tolerances, maybe for decades as mission creep and bureaucratic torpor sets in, then you mothball it and build the real thing.
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I got the impression that after aotc ws done they realised they still had a lot of story ground to cover, trying to slam in as much as possible. I think they could have conveyed the same sort of scene by simply having them review DS plans on paper or hologram. It was already strange that they alreay had an IMPERIAL fleet mobilised. Esp when they already had all the 'clone war' era vessels.
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Originally posted by: SW
Is that the one luke blew up in ep 4 ??
Is that the one luke blew up in ep 4 ??
Well, that is the debate. According to lore, it is supposed the one that Luke blows up. But the problem is there are some discrepencies between the one seen in Ep III and the one in Ep IV.
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Anyhow my take on it is this:
The Death Star was being constructed from the end of AOTC - when Dooku got hold of the plans and gave them to Sidious.
It was a secret build - hence the new style uniforms. This was like 'the Death Star group' if you like - along with the new type Star Destroyers and Tie Fighters. This was all part of the Emperors long-term plan to begin his Empire. He obviously knew what going to happen so put this whole operation into plan a couple of years before the events of Sith.
But, who really gives a shit. It's just a film!
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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
Yeah, its not like they had a planet to test it on. In any case, I remember that in one draft (or maybe the novel or something like that), Palpatine ordered Jerjerrod to turn the Death Star on Endor if the shield were to be destroyed. So there.
Yeah, its not like they had a planet to test it on. In any case, I remember that in one draft (or maybe the novel or something like that), Palpatine ordered Jerjerrod to turn the Death Star on Endor if the shield were to be destroyed. So there.
If I remember correctly, this was in the novel, that once the shields on the Death Star go down, Jerjerrod decides to blow up Endor, but the Death Star is destroyed before the gun can charge up for the blast.
The problem with the Death Star in Episode 3 is that is isn't sure when the scene takes place. There are several explanations I've heard, one being that the Death Star in 3 is actually the Seperatists' version of the Death Star that was started during the clone wars, but scrapped by the empire. And then there was the Death Star prototype that was talked about in the Jedi Academy Trilogy, I think. But there is still the question of why it took 20 years to build the Death Star in ANH, but less than 4 for the Death Star in ROTJ. Design issues maybe? The real answer is yet another problem with the prequels, but oh well.
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But there is still the question of why it took 20 years to build the Death Star in ANH, but less than 4 for the Death Star in ROTJ. Design issues maybe? The real answer is yet another problem with the prequels, but oh well.
It might not have taken 20 years to build the DSI. After reviewing the captured Separatist battlestation/DS-prototype/whatever, Palpatine might have decided he didn't want a Death Star. The DS was a weapon of political terror, intended to make a bold statement of Palpatine's supremacy over all Imperial member systems. But the immediate post-RotS era wasn't the right time for that. He still had to deal with his enemies in the Imperial Senate, reintegrate the Separatist systems, reconstruct the worlds devastated by the Clone Wars, rebuild and Imperialize the military, hunt down the surviving Jedi, and cement his reputation as a populist, "peace and security" ruler. Starting a superweapon at this point could tip his hand to his many surviving enemies.
Things had changed by the time of ANH. The Imperial Senate was on the way out, the Imperial military and navy were at the height of their prowess, and the Palpatinists ran the government and armed forces. Tarkin, who was obviously involved in the inspection of the Separatist battlestation/DS-prototype/whatever, had risen to the rank of Grand Moff and regional governor -- evidently a political/military executive directly below the Emperor. The Emperor's opposition had moved from the Senate hall on Coruscant to Alderaan and the Outer Rim. The conditions now made a Death Star program not just possible, but likely.
Most of the time used in the construction of the DSI probably went into setting up the supply pipelines, construction methods, and related technical expertise. Assuming that machinery survived the DSI's destruction, it could have been immediately reactivated to build the DSII. Setting up the industrial and bureaucratic machinery to build a Death Star would take a long time, but once it's up to speed, it might be harder to shut it down than to just start designing and building another.
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Unless that scene was set some years before ANH it makes no sense at all, and is thrown there (along with Moff Tarkin) just to please fans with something that looks like it's from the OT (and just for a few seconds!!). BUT since the baby delivery scene is shown AFTER that scene, and GL is no Tarantino and dosen't move foward and back in time on his films, we are to assume that the Death Star was being constructed for some time before the events on ROTS, maybe at the end of AOTC. So it took something like 22 years to build the first one, and 4 years to partially build the second one. Plot hole? To me, yes.
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Originally posted by: 20th Century Mark
I always assumed that the 2nd Death Star was started many years before the first one was even completed. For the Empire to have one DS would be awsome, but to have many, that would be ultimate.
Exactly. Has nobody here seen Contact? "The first rule of Government spending is: Why have one, when you can have two at twice the cost?" I always assumed that the 2nd Death Star was started many years before the first one was even completed. For the Empire to have one DS would be awsome, but to have many, that would be ultimate.
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Couldn't resist. On topic though...I think the DS cameo in 3 was stupid. Fan wanking material.
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Vague enough that it fits
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I'm also thinking that the DS1 was a design-by-committee battle station.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
I remember that I've posted here, when ROTS was released, that that particular scene could not have take place so fast, like, days after Vader got his suit. Apart from the whole Death Star discussion, the imperial officers were seeing using the OT imperial uniform - or something close to it - and were at their posts and working. Now, I don't remember seeing anything like that on the PT, and I don't remember Palpatine having a shitload of boxes filled with uniforms for his new officers, so...
I remember that I've posted here, when ROTS was released, that that particular scene could not have take place so fast, like, days after Vader got his suit. Apart from the whole Death Star discussion, the imperial officers were seeing using the OT imperial uniform - or something close to it - and were at their posts and working. Now, I don't remember seeing anything like that on the PT, and I don't remember Palpatine having a shitload of boxes filled with uniforms for his new officers, so...
That is my only guess it's a couple years after the twins are given over. GL should have placed that scene last like I stated before.