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Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....

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Well, despite his criticisms of the PT and the intended order, he ultimately came to the conclusion that he really enjoys the saga and prefers to watch them in that order. So I wouldn't say it was exactly a rousing success for us.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I was a bit of a Starwars virgin too. I only saw the last 4 parts once or so, I did see part 2 alot tho. And then episode 3 made me watch all of them.
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Well, it did reaffirm to me that whenever I present to Star Wars saga to anyone, I will start with Episode IV and go from there.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Well, despite his criticisms of the PT and the intended order, he ultimately came to the conclusion that he really enjoys the saga and prefers to watch them in that order. So I wouldn't say it was exactly a rousing success for us.

I agree, but I think that's to be expected. People will ultimately watch them in the intended order and have this same reaction, I'm sure. It's the little things that he says that makes me laugh...

For the newer Episodes, you can practically see George sitting at his Mac on top of his pile of money and giggling as he types lines line 'Whoa, that's tense' and 'How rude!' I looked it up and he was never a writer for Full House, which means he came up with those ditties all on his own. It could be the 4 o'clock in the morning talking, but it's almost as if he didn't have anyone proofreading his scripts. And did he even hire a casting director?

I like that one.

Obviously the CGI in the newer films is impressive, but to actually see what Lucas was able to do with limited technology is almost even more impressive.


If that doesn't give us a boost, I don't know what the hell will!!! Someone is actually more impressed with what Lucas did back then than what he can do now with all the technology in the world at his feet.

For me, the biggest problem with seeing these films in their intended order is that Episodes IV-VI offered little surprises. I know who Luke's father is; I know that the little creature is Yoda. I have to sit through that uncomfortable kiss between Luke and Leia knowing that they are indeed brother and sister. Most of the mysteries and questions that drive the plots of the later episodes are nullified by having seen the first three. I almost envied those who saw them in original order, so I too could have enjoyed the shock and surprise of some of the plot's twists and turns. Luckily I was never a fan of bellbottoms, so I will indeed stick with the intended order.


This is to be expected though....I knew this would happen as soon as we heard there would be a PT. No surprise. Even if the PT was stellar, we would still have to deal with the suprises in the OT being ruined.

But in the end, I agree with ferris209...show the movies to anyone starting with ANH. As far as I personally am concerned, there is no 1,2 or 3 though.
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In all honesty, I don't think the saga works either way 4-6,1-3, or 1-6, cause the first trilogy you watch spoils almost everything in the second trilogy. Think about all the stuff we knew about the PT going into, and think of a new viewer watching them 1-6 and actually being one step ahead of the characters in terms of what they know!

The biggest flaw of this whole saga idea by George is tying the trilogies together, and I don't think overall it will ever work whatever way you watch them. Sure there are diehards who will say it works 1-6, or vice versa, but I say they weren't written in a linear fashion, so how the hell can you watch them in a linear 1-6 fashion. As for 4-6,1-3, the OT was written with a totally different context of how Lucas rewrote the story, or the 'tragedy of Anakin Skywalker' is now, so there is a jarring effect between trilogies.

It is a shame cause as much as I think the PT is average I have tried and tried and tried to watch it 4-6,1-3 or 1-6 or even 3-6 as ROTS being a prologue to the OT, and it is just too jarring in every sense of how they were made. One trilogy has 95% CG locations, and the other has real locations, that is a huge leap from watching one to the other, and it just doesn't flow either way. No matter how much Lucas keeps updating the OT, it is never going to blend well with the PT, cause they would literally have to reshoot all backrounds and put in full CG locations and somehow cut & paste in Han, Luke, Leia, etc.

I don't even care what anyone says about what order works best anymore, cause either way ruins the other trilogy. The only way it could have worked is if Lucas actually told the PT movies through flashbacks in the post ROTJ days as maybe bring back Mark Hammill telling his son about Darth Vader, The Clone Wars, the death of his grandmom, etc. Then watching them 4-6,1-3 would work cause the PT would be a true backstory of information, not a linear story.

Godfather II did it to perfection as it mirrored flashbacks all through the movie of young Vito Corleone and how he came to power, and it never made you look at Godfather I in a different way, cause Coppola released a recut version in 1977 of everything in chronological order, and it just didn't work. The problem with the SW saga is it didn't make the backstory a true backstory like Godfather II to begin with to fall back on when the chronological order didn't work.
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I don't think there was any way to save the "surprises" in the OT when the PT got made. It just wasn't possible. An unfortunate by product of making the PT, that's all. it does suck, but what can ya do really.

I do agree that the trilogies should have been more seperate. No droids in the prequels, things wrapped up between 3 and 4 a little neater, etc. There was too many loose ends between the trilogies. I don't think they are connected all that well. Lucas seemed to do it in a way that felt more out of obligation that for the sake of story flow.

Then again, I may not know what I'm talking about here. The whole thing just feels wrong now, that's all.
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You are right that we all knew the suprises going in, and maybe I am taking it a bit far, but the only way I thought the PT would succeed, would be a true backstory. One that is NOT supposed to be watched before OT, and everything that is made in it is written that you have seen the OT first.

The end of ROTS is a perfect example of putting in plot points to appease the OT fans. If Lucas wanted to make a compelling 1-6 story, Anakin should have been left burning on Mustafar, and never seen again til he breaks down the door in ANH at the beginning. That way the whole OT you are watching it wondering who this Vader guy, holy shit, it is Anakin! He survived!!! Now there would have to be some dialogue changes in ANH by Kenobi to compliment the linear storytelling, but if Lucas truly wanted the story to be watched in 1-6 fashion, the ending of ROTS would be totally different.

Also, there are things in the PT just to appease the OT fans, cameos by Jabba, the jawas, and the tuskens in the pod race which are pointless. Owen would have had a much different role had it been written 1-6, but Lucas had to find a way to get him in so he makes him fucking own C3PO 20 years before buying him unknowingly again?

The only thing that Lucas was concerned about in the PT was Anakins character arc, and that is the only thing that he wants to succeed in the 1-6 storytelling now, as you see this little boy who is a good kid go down a dark rode to become Darth Vader and then redeem himself in ROTJ at the end of the movie. Now that is a cool story, the problem is the fucking OT only really covers that story at the end of ESB, and the last hour ROTJ! So you basically have most of ANH, half of ESB, and half of ROTJ that don't deal with Anakins character arc.

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Well, it's really quite simple. They shouldn't be connected. While connected to the same mythos, they are two separate movie trilogies intended to be watched separately (but with PT after the OT) because the PT really only exists as backstory to the OT.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Or better yet, just ignore the entire PT and just watch the OT in its original form, even if it is in awful quality.
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I hear what you're saying CO....

You make a VERY interesting point though.....I think it would have been genius to have never explained who Vader was in the prequel. Maybe have us believe that Anakin died during the fight with Obi-Wan and then just have this new apprentice, Vader show up and start helping the Emperor whoop Jedi ass.

There's quite a few directions to go in. Some bring up some serious continuity errors....but given some talented creativity, Lucas could have come up with something really ingenious.....instead he seemed to take the easy and lazy right which was to write them as prequels and make it all one big story. He should have stuck to what the press "created"....those three trilogies that were all separate stories, but slightly interconnected.

I think the biggest mistake was to shift the focus to Anakin. That was retarded to the extreme. The PT should have been about Anakin and the OT was about Luke, plain and simple, cut and dry.
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1

I think the biggest mistake was to shift the focus to Anakin. That was retarded to the extreme. The PT should have been about Anakin and the OT was about Luke, plain and simple, cut and dry.


So true, and this is where Lucas went Vader crazy. He saw the reaction of 'I am your father.' and thought anything with Vader people would eat up. There is a segment of the SW fans that love Vader, but there is a segment of fans who fell in love with Luke, Leia, and Han and the Rebels vs Empire story, and that is all lost in the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker now.

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I think most of us could forgive the shift if it was done good though...

Anakin's "tragedy" really wasn't that tragic either. It COULD have been tragic, but it was handled horribly. That's the whole thing. Lucas took it in the wrong direction and then fucked up the execution of it. Talk about really blowing it...
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1I think most of us could forgive the shift if it was done good though...

Anakin's "tragedy" really wasn't that tragic either. It COULD have been tragic, but it was handled horribly. That's the whole thing. Lucas took it in the wrong direction and then fucked up the execution of it. Talk about really blowing it...


One of my friends told me the same exact thing, saying if Anakins story was compelling, you wouldn't have a problem with the new context of the 'Vader story' now. I guess to give an analogy, I never loved Vader being Lukes father in ESB at first, cause I was such a SW '77 fan and the context that was told, but ESB was so damn good, and ROTJ even with the Leia/Luke 'other' plot point, were good enough where I didn't disregard the OOT story as a whole. Good points, Cable.

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Yeah....ESB introduced something more to the first film and it was done very well.

I never minded the Luke/Leia thing. I agree that it was kinda stupid to make the two siblings, but only cuz it was handled really bad. You find out they're related and nothing comes of it. Now if Leia had showed up in that throne room on the Death Star at the end of ROTJ.....damn.....that would have kicked the movie up a few notches and would have put it in the same league as ESB.
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
Yeah....ESB introduced something more to the first film and it was done very well.

I never minded the Luke/Leia thing. I agree that it was kinda stupid to make the two siblings, but only cuz it was handled really bad. You find out they're related and nothing comes of it. Now if Leia had showed up in that throne room on the Death Star at the end of ROTJ.....damn.....that would have kicked the movie up a few notches and would have put it in the same league as ESB.


Or even worse, if you had PT Lucas write the ending of ROTJ, you would have Luke/Leia give each other a big smooch again! And the PT defenders would say, "Well that isn't a continuity error, the Skywalkers are a very expressive family."

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LOL!!!

They probably would defend something as outrageous and as stupid as that.....that's what they're trilogy was anyway so water sinks to its own level as far as I'm concerned.
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The thing about the prequels is that, even if they weren't the biggest pieces of crap in years, they were just prequels, and no more. Lucas tried to make them into these films that "patched up" the saga, filled in the gaps. It would have been fine if he just released them as "prequels." Not the saga completion, just a few prequels to one of the best trilogies of all time. Then people would know that they had to see the originals first, and the prequels would just be an interesting experiance, seeing the history they had glimpsed fleshed out. But instead, he makes the PT, and tries to say it is now a complete saga. That's the ultimate failure of the PT.
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Am surprised how quickly ep 3 changes and joines in with ep IV
May the force be wth you .........
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Originally posted by: SW
Am surprised how quickly ep 3 changes and joines in with ep IV


That's one of the things I don't like about the ending of ep3. It does end a little too abruptly. The other films allow you to catch your breath after all the action and then they end. Ep3 does slow down, but it throws all this shit at you in those last minutes...way too much shit I might add and then it abruptly ends and connects TOO much with Ep4.

It should have ended the whole PT on a melancholy note with everything tied up but sets up Ep4. Remember there's 20 years in between 3 and 4. The end of 3 should feel like things are gonna be this way for a long time.

I don't know really....not sure I'm articulating this correctly. The ending should have just been done differently, that's all. It doesn't feel right to me.
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1

That's one of the things I don't like about the ending of ep3. It does end a little too abruptly. The other films allow you to catch your breath after all the action and then they end. Ep3 does slow down, but it throws all this shit at you in those last minutes...way too much shit I might add and then it abruptly ends and connects TOO much with Ep4.

It should have ended the whole PT on a melancholy note with everything tied up but sets up Ep4. Remember there's 20 years in between 3 and 4. The end of 3 should feel like things are gonna be this way for a long time.

I don't know really....not sure I'm articulating this correctly. The ending should have just been done differently, that's all. It doesn't feel right to me.



Episode III ending was made by Lucas to be watched as the last episode in the saga, not the third. He even admits in the commentary, "I didn't need to show all the exposition of where everyone goes for the next 20 years, and I almost took it out of the final cut, but I knew people wanted to see it."

He put the DeathStar, Luke/Leia being brought to their homes, and even the construction of Vader in the movie solely cause alot of SW fans who saw it in 2005 would have been pissed if it wasn't shown, but that goes against everything storytelling wise of 1-6. And there lies the problem with trying to make this backstory that should be watched after the OT into a linear story now, Lucas didn't even try to appease the new 1-6 fan, he tried to appease the 4-6,1-3 fan, yet also says at the end of ROTS commentary, "The movies are meant be watched 1-6, and only thought of as one big movie, not 6 individual movies as the 'tragedy of Darth Vader.' That is the problem SW fans face who have seen the OT first, and who see the PT first, its fucked up both ways now.
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Yeah....it is pretty fucked up both ways.

I know a little bit about writing and plotting and such, so I know when something works and when it doesn't. Lucas deliberately tried to play to his audience. He's done that to the detriment of his story. That's really disappointing. It's also phony as hell. He says he's an artist and he's all for the artist to do things the way they want to do, but he if really was an artist, he wouldn't have tried to appease anyone. He would have done what was best for his art. He even fucking says so in the commentary that he knew people wanted that stuff in. Fuck that.....you do what's best for the story. If you have to leave something out, then you do it. Roger fucking Waters knew to do that with Dark Side Of The Moon and look how that turned out...fucking masterpiece album. Lucas is a two faced phony who's bowing to one thing only...the almighty dollar.

Too bad the story of Star Wars was the ultimate casuality here. It had a chance to be the best piece of fiction since the LOTR books. Lucas had the keys to the kingdom and fucked it all up. That's what pisses me off more than anything. I would fucking DIE to be in a position to tell a really good story like that. This moron gets the opportunity and makes totall shit and an ass of himself in the process. The ultimate justice is that he doesn't realize it and everyone keeps kissing his ass anyway. I'd like to see the actual story of Star Wars (1-6) critiqued by some honest to God professional writers. Lucas would get so ripped to shreds.

The whole thing just pisses me off cuz I'm a writer and would love to have been in his shoes.

I've always entertained the idea of writing my own version of Star Wars as a series of novellas, making it 9 or 12 parts each only being about a 100 pages. I doubt anyone would like to read it and it would get dismissed as some fanboy obsession.
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Cable, it just comes down to money, and that is where Lucas lost his true vision of SW and now it is 'what might have been.' I see what Lucas was trying to do, and I understand what he was trying to make out of the saga, the same way he took the saga in a vastly different turn with ESB/ROTJ. I recently watched the OOT '95 VHS interviews with Lucas, and he talks about the upcoming PT movies. "The real story has not been told yet." WHAT??????

Lately I have been going back and finding any old interviews by Lucas pre-TPM, and it is frustrating cause the writing was on the wall then, about where he was going with this saga, and I can't believe I didn't pick it up then. By him saying the real story hasn't been told yet, is either a master sales pitch to the viewer in 1995 that would get anyone juiced to see what is coming up, or if you think about it, he was already denegrating the OT story, because he wasn't viewing the PT as a backstory.

Because it was shot first, the OT HAD to be the real story, and the PT was just fill in the blanks, it wouldn't work any other way, unless Lucas had it planned from the start. The OT story suffers now in 1-6 order, but in turn the PT suffers too cause there are so many little winks to the viewer put in by Lucas that have zero meaning when first watched, "Someday Anakin, you are going to be the death of me." Obiwan said in AOTC. He never would have said that in a true 1-6 story, cause it would be a red flag to the viewer that it either is totally true, or it would pass right over their heads.

I still contend Lucas should have made one 3 1/2 hour prequel movie that resembles ROTS in structure, but fleshes it out a bit more with some flashbacks to get the viewer up to speed onto what is happening, cause in all honesty, you could have someone watch 4,5,6 and then show them Episode III and with alittle backround before they start watching it, it is a standalone movie in many respects. That way the PT would never overshadow the OT just like Godfather II Deniro scenes don't overshadow the real story of Pacinos through the trilogy, instead you have this tug of war of what trilogy you like more.
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You're damn right about the writing being on the wall. As soon as that '95 release said "own the trilogy for the last time." Red fucking flags should have gone up and told us to expect some pretty crooked shit.

Really sad that it'snow become a "if only..." type of thing. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over time. Will people one day realize that 1-3 suck and that thye ruined the whole thing? I think that will be the case. I remember people thinking Pearl Jam and Nirvana were awesome when they first came out, but after a few years, they couldn't stand them anymore. When the new-ness and the novelty of the prequels wears off, I think people will realize that they aren't what they're cracked up to be.

What will happen then, I wonder? Eventually, SW will just become another sci-fi film that has good parts and bad parts and the common reaction will be, "Meh." It won't have the enduring effect that the LOTR books had, that's for sure.

Way to go, George....you killed your own creation. Dipshit.

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To give you my own way of growing up watching movies, I saw many sequels before the originals, so I wasn't tainted at all. Before the days of VCR, or rather owning a VCR, I only watched movies as a kid on HBO and that was it. I saw the OT a zillion times on HBO, but I always saw Superman II on HBO before ever seeing Superman I. When I saw Superman I, I thought it was OK, but Superman II to me as a kid was the shit. Years later, and as I have aged, Superman I is clearly the better film. Same with Rocky movies, I was too young to see Rocky I in the theater, but always watched Rocky II on HBO and just heard about Rocky I from my brothers. I thought Rocky I was too slow as a kid and thought Rocky II & III were much better movies. Fast forward 10-15 years, Rocky I is an utter classic, and even though I saw them out of order, quality truimphs over time.

Don't be fooled by kids and their views of SW, remember they are kids. As a 10 year old kid in 1983, I thought ROTJ was better then ESB, and I have done a 180 over time, and now I see ROTJ as the weak link of the OT movies. I think kids will watch it 1-6, and the only thing I fear is they wont be grabbed at first by TPM and may not really care to continue on with the rest of the movies, cause remember SW/ANH is what made me a fan, and I was dying to see the other movies after that, so my love of SW/ANH makes the fan I am today. Luckily we can distinguish the OOT story with the saga story, so we are fortunate to just totally not even think of the PT and still feel the story is complete, with 1-6 new SW fans, they just won't love the 1-6, and may like individual movies, but wont distinguish the story of Luke that we grew up with, cause remember it is the tragedy of Darth Vader now, and that is the X-factor that is not prevailent in ANY other movie series.