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Terrorists 'use Google maps to hit UK troops'

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Terrorists 'use Google maps to hit UK troops'

By Thomas Harding in Basra
Last Updated: 2:06am GMT 13/01/2007



Terrorists attacking British bases in Basra are using aerial footage displayed by the Google Earth internet tool to pinpoint their attacks, say Army intelligence sources.

Documents seized during raids on the homes of insurgents last week uncovered print-outs from photographs taken from Google.

The satellite photographs show in detail the buildings inside the bases and vulnerable areas such as tented accommodation, lavatory blocks and where lightly armoured Land Rovers are parked.

Written on the back of one set of photographs taken of the Shatt al Arab Hotel, headquarters for the 1,000 men of the Staffordshire Regiment battle group, officers found the camp's precise longitude and latitude.

"This is evidence as far as we are concerned for planning terrorist attacks," said an intelligence officer with the Royal Green Jackets battle group. "Who would otherwise have Google Earth imagery of one of our bases?

"We are concerned that they use them to plan attacks. We have never had proof that they have deliberately targeted any area of the camp using these images but presumably they are of great use to them.

"We believe they use Google Earth to identify the most vulnerable areas such as tents."

One soldier has been killed in the past six months following a mortar attack and there have been several injuries.

Since the maps were found intelligence chiefs have been keeping track of where rounds land to see if the insurgents are using them to pinpoint weakly protected areas.

The British camps experience mortar and rocket attacks on a daily basis.

Salvos are fired from up to four miles away and are increasingly accurate.

Yesterday three rounds were fired into Basra Palace at a block close to where The Daily Telegraph was staying. No one was injured.

Intelligence sources also believe that the insurgents are receiving more training and weaponry from Iran to improve their fighting skills. But the British are gathering more intelligence on mortar crews and launching several "strike operations" to detain the operators.

Anyone with the internet can sign up to Google Earth and by simply typing in the name of a location they can receive very detailed imagery down to identifying types of vehicles.

The company is one of several internet outlets that buy aerial imagery, usually taken by aircraft but sometimes by satellite, from governments or mapping companies.

It is unclear how old the maps are but it is believed the Basra images were made within the past two years.

Major Charlie Burbridge, the British military spokesman in Iraq, said: "We take the security of our bases very seriously and we constantly review the means to provide secure accommodation for our soldiers.

"There is a constant threat of reconnaissance missions to access our bases and using these internet images is just another method of how this is conducted."

A Google spokesman said the information could be used for "good and bad" and was available to the public in many forms. "Of course we are always ready to listen to governments' requests," he said.

"We have opened channels with the military in Iraq but we are not prepared to discuss what we have discussed with them. But we do listen and we are sensitive to requests."

There have also been reports that the images are being sold to rogue militias in the market place in Basra.

The British security services are concerned that terrorists will be able to examine in detail sensitive infrastructure such as electricity stations, military basis, and their own headquarters in London.

Soldiers from the Royal Green Jackets based at the Basra Palace base said they had considered suing Google Earth if they were injured by mortar rounds that had been directed on the camp by the aerial footage.

"Even if they did blank out the areas where we are based it is a bit after the horse has bolted as the terrorist now have the maps and know exactly where we eat, sleep and go to the toilet," one soldier said.
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Hmm... don't really know what to make of this. I mean, I feel for the soldiers, but realistically, there have been freeware satellite mapping sites that have been around much longer than Google Earth.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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The internet changes many things. In this case I believe it's wiser to adapt military behavior.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Surely it would be possible to block real-time or recent-time data from Google Earth for the time being.

Heck, wouldn't it be possible to pipe FALSE information through the satelites to the terorrists?

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It would be wise to blackout these areas from the public anyway. Since this has now been seen as a threat, it would be wise for them to act on this in at least some small way. Even replace data from those sections with very outdated data. It would still be geographically, just wouldn't be as useful for ill means.

Oh, and to address the issue of the information they already have, it would be worth it to change the place where you sleep and go to the toilet and park the light armoured rovers. If only by a small variation.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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There already some places, such as at The Hague, which are blurred out.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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The thing thats crazy is that alot of the data is old---really old---2 years in some cases! (A mall near by that was completed about a year and a half ago still shows as being under construction) but since we have semi-permanent bases their, its amazing that the Terrorists could actually make a mortar attack with the data---I would like to see all of Iraq one big blob on the map, I wonder if they are going to act upon it.
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Yeah, it usually is really old data. If you find the edge of each "tile" there is a copyright with the date (I think) they are usually a few years old. But somebody said there have been other free satellite mapping sites before google earth, do any of those keep more up to date photos?

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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This seems a little bit strage... What "terrorists" attacked which UK base? And how? Airplanes?! I wouldn't trust this report.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Basra is the second largest city in Iraq. The terrorists, I am assuming were Iraqi, and I imagine they attacked on foot, the British Military base in Basra.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Ric:
Umm...There was a mortar attack on the base, using precise coordinates , at the same time they raided a stronghold and found many images of that same base, taken from Google Maps. Is there any other clarification you need? Or do you just don't think its possible. How can you "not understand this report"? What terrorists? What do you mean what terrorists? THE ONES THE UK AND US ARE FIGHTING IN IRAQ. How? Mortars (for people that have no military background, think of it as a small precise piece of artillery, to hit targets far off, it would be useful to have satalite pictures and coordinates (BTW THE UK FOUND A PEICE OF PAPER WITH THEIR BASE COORDINATES ON IT) What do you mean would not trust it?
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I think ric thought Basra was a base in the UK and expected such an attack would have made big new. I think when people talk about the war in Iraq, a lot of times they imagine our (US) armed forces marching around in heavy combat gear mowing down farmers and peasants armed with AK-47s and pitchforks, and from time to time unarmed women and children.

The fact is there are casualties on both sides. Because of the "soft tactics" we are forced to resort to (for example we used "hard tactics" on Japan, this was effective and statistically minimized casualties, while if you didn't look at the statistics you would think the bombs we dropped killed more than "soft tactics" would have, while this is in fact not the case), we are loosing people all the time. A lot more of our kids are dying out there than would have with a few effectively dropped bombs, because this is considered too harsh by the popular opinion of the world. It is the difference between picking up little bit of confetti on the floor by hand and carefully sorting though it to make sure you are only picking up certain colored confetti, rather than taking the vacuum cleaner and sucking it all up. In Japan we vacumed up a small amount of confetti in two small areas, and in the end saved countless bits of confetti of every color, while in Iraq we are cautious to only pick up the red bits of confetti while loosing much more red confetti in the long run along with small amounts of every other color (women, children, news reporters, US and other foriegn troops).

I am not sure why I took off writing about the use of exessive force to minimize long tern casualties, it just kind of struck me in the moment. It is a huge morality question actually. Is it okay to sacrifice the lives of women and children for the sake of saving lives of enemy militants and your own troops?

Back on the topic:

Things like this mortar attack are happening all the time over there. I am amazed at how little of this is covered. It seems that it is completely over looked by the media.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Easy there, I've found the report weird because 1- Attacking a base is not really something easy to do on land, let alone on foot, and I haven't heard any reports of a massive base attack - no "Tet offense" yet, and 2- Google Maps is outdated and not precise enough to make any military attack any easier. By the way, loved the way you guys got offended by my comments, reminds me of that scene in Fellini's Rome in which an old man complains about Mussolini during the war and is angrily questioned by some other fellow.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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It doesn't matter the maps are outdated. It's not like the military bases move a lot. They're on the same spot for years. Who cares where the vehicles are parked. If you have the exact coordinates of the base it's easy to pump in a few mortars in the middle from miles away and hope you hit something.
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Ric,

"I think ric thought Basra was a base in the UK and expected such an attack would have made big news."

I was not by any means getting upset at your comment, I was actually defending you by saying that you didn't seem to understand where Basra was. These types of attacks happen often enough,

"I've found the report weird because 1- Attacking a base is not really something easy to do on land, let alone on foot, and I haven't heard any reports of a massive base attack"

Honestly, attacking a base on land is not as uncommon as you may think. I don't believe the Iraqi terrorists have a massive supply of fighter plans around to make air attacks with. Also, with a mortar gun you can get some decent distance from your target.


"2- Google Maps is outdated and not precise enough to make any military attack any easier"

Yeah, I agree with you here. But I think they would still be accurate enough geographically and topographically to be extremely useful for strategic planning.

"By the way, loved the way you guys got offended by my comments, reminds me of that scene in Fellini's Rome in which an old man complains about Mussolini during the war and is angrily questioned by some other fellow."

Uh... okay. This isn't an issue of complaining about a dictator and being questioned for it. I know WESHALLPRESERVE can get carried away from time to time with his CAPS LOCK, he gets pretty passionate about these issues. I think the reason why he posted as he did was because he thought you were doubting that US and UK troops are being attacked in Iraq.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
Uh... okay. This isn't an issue of complaining about a dictator and being questioned for it. I know WESHALLPRESERVE can get carried away from time to time with his CAPS LOCK, he gets pretty passionate about these issues. I think the reason why he posted as he did was because he thought you were doubting that US and UK troops are being attacked in Iraq.


It was a paralel comparison on how people take their biased political opinions on a personal level - the first sign of braiwashing is angrily denying so and defending the concepts installed on one's mind.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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It isn't a bias, American and UK troops are dying over there, and a lot of people don't even realize it. There is nothing to brain wash here. Trust me, I know the brain washing thing very well.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I've gone out of topic and I apologise, but the whole "brainwashing" analogy was related to the propaganda, motives and excuses created to the war, not the consequences of the war themselves..
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
I've gone out of topic and I apologise, but the whole "brainwashing" analogy was related to the propaganda, motives and excuses created to the war, not the consequences of the war themselves..



What are you talking about Ric? We have always been at war with Eurasia!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Stinky-Dinkins
I've used Google maps to track Sean Wookie before.


Stinky! Put down the mortar gun! It's not nice to attack other forum member's homes!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape