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Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released) — Page 2

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The Hylia website addressed the issue in the article Zelda: Based on a "Legend"? but I don't know if it's still there.

Found it - http://www.thehylia.com/based_on_a_legend.shtml

The Hylia article also references the following information on http://gannon-banned.com/ :

20. Claiming The Legend of Zelda is based on the movie "Legend":

I am not sure who started this great myth, but it is ending now. I e-mailed IMDB.com to remove that stupid trivia that says Miyamoto was influenced by the Ridley Scott film "Legend". Let's get the facts straight. Zeruda no Densetsu: The Hyrule Fantasy came out in Japan on the Famicom Disk System on February 21st, 1986. Legend came out in limited release in Europe in late 1985 due to an issue with the cut for the North American audience, which Ridley Scott discusses in the Ultimate Edition commentary and special features. Production of both masterpieces began at nearly the same time in 1983 at opposite ends of the globe. Quite frankly, there is a window of maybe two to three months in which Shigeru Miyamoto and company could have flown to Europe, seen Legend, and then flown back to make Zelda. In all honesty folks, Legend has very little in common with the original Legend of Zelda. Sure, Tom Cruise's character of "Jack" wears green clothes and he likes a princess and has to save her from an evil dude, but come on. Jack lives in a forest, has to save unicorns, drinks tea with forest folk, wears gold armor for most of the film, and fights some bull-demon form of Tim Curry. The film is more like Ocarina of Time, which came out in 1998, 12 years after The Legend of Zelda was released anywhere.


Sean
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After the christmas rush I found myself with nothing to do. So here goes...

I've started to put together an extended version of Legend. I already have the majority of the video edited.
Here's a rundown of what's been added so far:

0) There are quite a few alternative shots/takes of the same scenes in the AC/EC/DC, I have used the DC version in every case. A good example is the number of alternate shots used in the EC when Gump sets a riddle for Jack. Have ignored the shots of Darkness being shown at the beginning in the AC, he is much more menacing in the EC/DC by not appearing so soon. At the end I haven't restored a long shot of Jack and Lili frolicking by the pool from the EC, as it is an alternate angle of Jack and Lili after crossing the stream. Also haven't added the scene of Jack and Lili watching the Unicorns one last time in the AC, as these are taken from earlier in the film (has an alternate take of Jack and Lili kissing).

1) Shots of clouds gathering in the sky where appropriate from the EC. Didn't restore cloud shots from the AC as they look too different from the ones in the DC.

2) Extra shot of Bird on Jack's shoulder, and him whistling at the bird. (AC)

3) Shots of Jack and Lili crossing a stream. (AC)

4) Shot of Jack turning to Lili. And another of Lili crouching to kiss Jack "Jack, I'm sorry." (AC)
Also uses the extended shot of Lili trying to kiss Jack and him not responding. (AC)

5) Shot of lightning hitting tree before Jack surfaces the frozen pool. (AC)

6) Closeup of the Alicorn being hewn off. (AC)

7) Shot of Blunder jumping up onto a table in the cottage moved earlier in the scene (DC)
Shot of Blunder putting face in bowl put in the above's place. (AC)

8) Shots of Jack searching for Lili in the blizzard "Lili!". (AC)
Shots of Blix and company riding through the storm, and Lili following. (AC)
Pox's line "Four, Five, Six, hurray for Blix! Hey!" has been removed as it was used in the DC earlier.

9) Shots of Gump jumping around and throwing fairy dust at Jack. (AC)
Shot of Elf legs running past Gump and Jack in the background. (AC)
Shot of elves watching Jack. (AC)
Shot of elves giggling and Gump's line "But love is another story." (EC)
Shot of elves throwing up snow, moved to a more appropriate place in the DC. This shot may be from The Fairy Dance originally. (AC)

10) Shot of Screwball watching Jack with the Unicorns, moved so that he is watching Jack walk back and not disrupt the scene as cut in the DC. (AC)

11) Shots of Lili in the blizzard approaching Blix and company. (AC)
Extra shot of Lili watching the Goblins by the fire. (AC)
Blunder's line "Adios Amigos" removed.

12) Odd out of place wipe removed between the Goblins capturing the Unicorn and Jack & Gump finding Brown Tom

13) Shot of glowing eyes on shelf watching Lili who has been taken to the Great Tree. (AC)
Shot of chained Unicorn looking uneasy. (AC)

14) Two shots of the demonic cherubs and a cook chopping up "meat". (AC)
This is taken from the AC intro which makes it look like Darkness is sitting in the kitchen.

15) Dialogue for Oona as she spies on Lili "You should see your princess now!" (EC)

16) Scene of Jack and Gump searching the Great Tree and being attacked by "pygmies". (AC)

17) Shot of statue getting up, as Lili inspects the necklace. (AC)
Shot of dancing dress engulfing Lili with added flash. (AC)

18) Shot of Brown Tom and Screwball, after Jack and Gump find them. (AC)
Shot of Jack looking at them. (AC)

19) Shot of one of the cooks being attacked by Gump and company, moved to a more appropriate place in the DC. (AC)

20) Scene of Lili at the table looking at the black fruit on a plate, and the wine glass filling up. (AC)
This scene is moved to appropriate place in the DC to make continuity a bit better.
Darkness: "Eat"
"Drink"

21) Shot of Unicorn being held down by Darkness' minions, before Darkness starts his "sermon". (AC)

22) Screwball's line "Get up there!" after he gets the plate to the top of the chimney. (AC)

23) Shot of Screwball falling asleep in exhaustion at the top of the chimney. (AC)

24) Extra shots where Jack swings his sword on Darkness a second time, Darkness screaming and sparks from the hands. (AC)

25) Scene of Alicorn being restored on the Unicorn, the sun rising and the Unicorn getting up. (AC)
This has been cobbled together from the intercutting scenes in the AC, so that the Jack and Lili scenes don't suffer as edited.

26) Overhead shot of Lili under the spell lying on the grass. (AC)

27) Shot of Gump reaching the top of the cliff. (EC)

28) Used the DC/EC ending of Jack running off on his own. The AC has Jack and Lili running together.

29) Did not restore the cheesy shot of Darkness laughing before the credits roll

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I'm sure I've missed some footage somewhere. The runtime so far is 118 minutes 24 seconds.

There are various audio problems to tackle yet.
I could do with a copy of the Jerry Goldsmith score to add audio to the new scene of the Alicorn being restored, might have a look for one tomorrow.

I'm going to start looking at the alternate 4 goblins intro at some point, I think I might do two versions. The version I'm completing now and another with the alternate intro and the storyboarded Fairy Dance.

Thanks to ZakDrizzt for setting the ball rolling and the very useful shot breakdowns by Sean Murphy.

Edit: Added footage back by mistake that was already in the DC, runtime has changed

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Sounds great. Interesting that about a combined total of 5 minutes is in the American & International versions but not the director's cut. It might be nice if you could have optional subtitles pop up to identify the new shots. It would also be cool if you did something else with the extra theatrical unused footage. For example, where there are different takes/angles (Darkness being shown/not shown in the begining), have a separate video with a split screen view like what was done for the wookiegroomer Star Wars. Those are just some ideas for additional features.

I'm glad you're not using the American shots of Jack and Lily with the unicorns at the end, which were obviously lifted from earlier in the film. I never understood Jack putting the blindfold on Lily to see the unicorns at the beginning (didn't he just say he trusted Lily?). The shooting script explains this as Jack not not wanting to give away the location of the unicorns. However, the American cut at the end makes the whole blindfold thing make no sense, which is typical of a lot of the edits from that version.

I have the Jerry Goldsmith soundtrack. It's very easy to find on amazon for $10 and I also downloaded it to my computer. The unicorn horn being reattached is something I have always wanted to see in the director's cut. I don't know what to do about the music as the Jerry Goldsmith score for Jack diving and finding the ring (13: The Ring [at about the 2:25 point]) always seemed to cut off abruptly in the movie. There's more on the CD but not as much as I thought would be needed for the inserted scene. I guess you'll have to decide for yourself. I think the Legend faq site mentioned that a part of Goldsmiths score composed for a scene was not used and instead another piece of music was tracked from another scene (even in the director's cut). That would be another good thing to look into.

Another thing you probably noticed is the the text on the American version's credits is bigger. I find that much easier to read (but a lot harder to hear because of that stupid Bryan Ferry song!) and was wondering if it would be possible to use those credits and maybe add some of Goldsmith's score from the CD that was unused in the movie to fill in the longer running time.

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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I'm going to start looking at the alternate 4 goblins intro at some point, I think I might do two versions. The version I'm completing now and another with the alternate intro and possibly the storyboarded Jack Dance.


I think doing two versions is a great idea!

Using the four goblins opening means removing the opening with Blix and Darkness (presently found in all three versions of the film although with differences between the the Director's cut/European version and the American cut) since the information Darkness tells Blix is repeated with the four goblins footage. Was that your plan to remove the Darkness/Blix scene?

I think of the cut with the four goblins intro and the Fairy Dance like a workprint version of the film. I'll be real interested to see how long the film is with that footage included.

Thanks again for undertaking this recut - I'm psyched for it. :-)

Sean
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Thanx LeoneNut.

I'm thrilled you're doing this. I really wouldn't have had a clue. I see you found a whole lot of extra stuff; I think Sean's breakdown was a great help.

2 versions is really the only way to go. Are you going to put some sort of branching method to watch either version? I really think that the 4 Goblins intro and Faerie dance is essential.

As cool as that Darkness/Blix intro is, it just doesn't work as well as the 4 Goblins intro. Also Darkness' siloloquie 'I require the solace of the night, etc' is repeated to Lily at the dinner table. It also sets up the 'entrance to the tree and Giant Horn' very nicely. Are you going to try clean it up a bit, maybe use as many shots from the existing versions as you can? There's quite a bit of Blix you can use, and most of the credit sequence should still fit. Can you do anything with Darkness' voice, to try and match it to Tim Curry's?

The Faerie dance is referred to so often in the movie, that you really need it there, even in it's raw state. ( Adds more menace to Gump's 'Then it's your death song I'll be playing' and explains the toast ' Dancing Fool'. Oona also mentions it in Darkness' lair; 'I could vex you, dance your life away'. There's abot 30 seconds of footage in the featurette showing the crew filming Gump playing his fiddle during the Faerie Dance. You think you could use this? It's just after Ridley mentions the fire at the Bond stage.

I always wondered if all those shots of restoring the Alicorn would work as a full sequence, not intercut with Jack in the pool. Should be quite cool to see.

Anyway, good luck and hope you get the music cues you need.

PS: What do you think of Screwball's line in Darkness' Lair 'It's Faerie magic' when Oona's secret is revealed? Never worked for me, I mean, Screwball should be quite familiar with Faerie Magic, being a Faerie himself.

Edit: There's also that scream of Lili's when she looks down at the pool after Jack dives off the cliff. Doesn't make sense why she's screaming. She's actually supposed to be seeing the Pool freeze over, but we don't see that. Could you manipulate that scene a bit? I think there's a shot later where you see a half frozen over pool. Maybe bring that shot back to just before Lili's scream?
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Knightmessenger:
I like the idea of the optional subtitles for the new footage, very easy to do.

I might create a featurette with alternative footage. I did this before with the Once Upon a Time in the West edit I did. Though this might take a while to put together.
There's a quite a few shots out of place in the American version, that can mislead you into thinking it's a different scene.

I might well have to re-use some music for the Alicorn being reattached, and was thinking of using the music from the Jack finding the ring. Depends on whether the viewer would notice too much
I already have repeated little sections of music to cover odd shots being added. Some work very well, some need re-doing...

I'll check out the credits, probably has a list of songs at the end which aren't in the Director's Cut though.


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figmentfly:
Yes the plan was to remove the redundant Darkness/Blix scene. I haven't had chance to check out the alternate intro for a while but it seems longer than the existing version.

Glad to hear you are psyched for it, I'm quite enjoying doing it, has made me rediscover the film and appreciate it a whole lot more.


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ZakDrizzt:
Yes I plan to use existing footage to make the alternate intro more presentable.

I want to avoid branching, so will create two versions.
I will definitely add the Faerie Dance scene in the alternate version, and I'll check out the documentary. I have a feeling that this version will be close to 125 minutes.

The restoring the Alicorn scene plays silently at the moment, but does seem consistent as a scene (there is a jump cut at the moment, which I need to fix)
I hopefully should be getting the music I need soon.

I will re-visit the scenes you mention and get back to you.

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Another piece of dialogue that makes me cringe is when Blunder gets carried off by the mummy. He says 'Adios, Amigos', which just doesn't fit in a medieval fairie tale. Maybe you can mute that line out?
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'Adios, Amigos'

I never liked that line either,did not fit at all,kind of stupid actually.

DJ
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Another line of Blunder's that's always bothered me is when he's in his jail cell speaking to Jack & Co. He says something like "Me and you all is Barbeque". Pretty stupid, but difficult to take out, seeing as there is some reaction to his comment; I think Screwball repeats 'Barbeque'.
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Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt
PS: What do you think of Screwball's line in Darkness' Lair 'It's Faerie magic' when Oona's secret is revealed? Never worked for me, I mean, Screwball should be quite familiar with Faerie Magic, being a Faerie himself.

Edit: There's also that scream of Lili's when she looks down at the pool after Jack dives off the cliff. Doesn't make sense why she's screaming. She's actually supposed to be seeing the Pool freeze over, but we don't see that. Could you manipulate that scene a bit? I think there's a shot later where you see a half frozen over pool. Maybe bring that shot back to just before Lili's scream?


To be honest I'm bit wary of editing out lines of dialogue, from a version endorsed by Ridley.

'It's Faerie magic' - Screwball is a bit dumb, maybe he just figured it out

Lili's scream - The music and sound effects kind of lock the footage in place, I can see what you are saying though.

'Adios, Amigos' - This line is good candidate for editing out, though is part of the fun nature of Blunder's character. It seems like it was added at a later stage. I could replace this with an extended scream.

'Me and you all is Barbeque' - I don't mind this line

Maybe we should have a vote on what stays or goes

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I see how you can be weary of stepping on Ridley's toes, but then again, you are putting back scenes which he decided to leave out. I think what we're trying to do here is create the best and most complete version of Legend possible. Face it, as much as we love this movie, it's heavily flawed. But the potential is there. Changing dialogue here and there, if it's gonna benefit the movie, I don't see a problem. Maybe a vote is the way to go, as you suggested. We've also got Sean 'figmentfly' keen on this project; what does he think? No one's better equipped than him, seeing as he's been campaigning for an ultimate Legend longer than any of us.

Also, remember that the 'Director's Cut' was released on DVD as found. Ridley never actually got to edit it again. Maybe he cringes at 'Adios Amigos' too.
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Nuts, I've been called out onto the floor. :-)

I see how you can be weary of stepping on Ridley's toes, but then again, you are putting back scenes which he decided to leave out. I think what we're trying to do here is create the best and most complete version of Legend possible.

First and foremost, I look at this edit as LeoneNut's baby - ultimately what he wants to do is what we'll see and that is fine by me - he is the one doing all of the hard work. Thanks again for undertaking this project.

I think it is fine to make suggestions about what we'd like to see but his decisions (and preferences) will end up being the final product. And that is as it should be. If we decide that we'd like the film to be something different, than we can get our hands on the same elements and cut together the version we'd like to see. I just don't have the time for something like that (I'm actually envious of LeoneNut having the opportunity to do this!)

Face it, as much as we love this movie, it's heavily flawed. But the potential is there. Changing dialogue here and there, if it's gonna benefit the movie, I don't see a problem. Maybe a vote is the way to go, as you suggested. We've also got Sean 'figmentfly' keen on this project; what does he think? No one's better equipped than him, seeing as he's been campaigning for an ultimate Legend longer than any of us.


Personally, if I was doing the edit myself, I would keep in any dialogue that was scripted (ala the barbeque line) and would possibly remove the Adios Amigos line as it was not scripted and seems tacked on (my LEGEND FAQ co-author Geoff really hated that line). But then again, the line is still there in the Director's cut.

If I was being strict about it, I'd probably have a policy to keep it if it appeared in the Director's cut. I wouldn't be trying to "improve" the film by editing other dialogue.

It all depends on what LeoneNut is trying to do with this cut.

Personally, I want a cut with as much footage back in the film as long as the returned footage makes sense - I wouldn't just cram everything back in because I could.

But, again, I defer to LeoneNut's final decision.

Sean
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but his decisions (and preferences) will end up being the final product


Decisions, decisions
Bit of burden on my shoulders...

Here's my take

I started of this project, by just adding back the many shots and scenes that were not used. None of which detract from the focus of the Director's cut. I have added back shots and scenes in such a way as to not mess up continuity etc. I think of this first version as an extended version of the director's cut. This is the version that is my personal preference.

I personally don't have any strong preferences for removing dialogue that is out of place. I think it might be best if this was implemented in the second version with the Alternate Intro and Faerie Dance. Which is what ZakDrizzt originally was interested in.

What do you guys think?

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I have added back shots and scenes in such a way as to not mess up continuity etc. I think of this first version as an extended version of the director's cut. This is the version that is my personal preference.

I like this concept.

I personally don't have any strong preferences for removing dialogue that is out of place. I think it might be best if this was implemented in the second version with the Alternate Intro and Faerie Dance. Which is what ZakDrizzt originally was interested in.


I like the idea of using your first version of the film as the starting point for the second version (which includes the original intro and fairy dance) without any other changes.

I almost feel that what ZakDrizzt is interested in would be a third version of the film.

Here's how I see it :

Version 1 : Director's cut (Extended Version)
Version 2 : Director's cut (Extended version) with original intro and Fairy Dance
Version 3 : Either of the above versions with ZakDrizzt edits

The question is, do you want to keep making different versions of the film? :-)

I'm more than happy with the first two versions.

Just my two cents.

Sean
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Guys, I didn't mean to throw the cat among the pigeons. Sean, you're right, LeoneNut is putting in the effort and hard work, he should get to decide. I can live with all those dialogue issues. LeoneNut, if you do version1 and version2, I'll still be over the moon! Just to be able to see the Alicorn restored at the end is already making me drool! Thanx for doing this!
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Drool away

Might post a preview of the Restoring the Alicorn scene on YouTube at some point.
I put some of the Jack finding the Ring music to it and it fits very well.
Because I used the soundtrack from the DVD you also get lots of water sound effects, will hopefully be even better from the CD.

I ripped the documentary footage, alternate intro and Faerie Dance last night. The alternate intro will need making anamorphic and cleaning up a bit. Need to remove some cards saying "Scene Missing" etc. Would be nice to somehow make the dialogue more audible and make Tim Curry's voice more menacing
Even though there are some crew visible in the Faerie Dance scene shown in the documentary, I think it will look ok inserted. I'm going to have to think about how to show this scene in a 2.35:1 frame though. Shame that Gump looks different in the storyboards though.

I estimate that version 2 will be approximately 7 minutes longer, so maybe somehow I will have created the Lost 125 min version.


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Been fixing lots of audio problems tonight, made the cuts less jarring in a number of cases.

I can't get away from it, but Tangerine Dream music will still be present in two scenes because of the dialogue. The scene when Lili bends down to kiss Jack, and says "Jack, I'm sorry." Also the scene with the black apple and the wine glass filling up. I think the music works well enough to not even notice. If I just isolated the lines of dialogue, it sounded too choppy.

For most of the added scenes from the American cut I was able to use audio from elsewhere in the film to replace music.
I even added a final Unicorn sound to the Restoring the Alicorn scene to give it a nice touch.

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Sounds great. Are you going to change the aspect ratio of the Faerie dance too? The storyboard cards look 2.35:1. Maybe you can cut out the borders and just use the actual cards, or is that too difficult to do? That footage in the featurette is pretty cool, maybe if you try and match it to 2.35:1, you can cut out some of the crew at the bottom.

A couple of seconds of Tangerine Dream score here and there won't be very noticeable. The dialogue is what's important.

About the dialogue in the alternate intro; is there any software out there that can manipulate audio; it would be really cool if you could match Darkness' voice to Tim Curry's, and make the Goblin's more audible.

This is gonna be so cool, can't wait!

[Edit] If you're struggling to get the soundtrack, I can help out by buying it from Amazon or something, and shipping it to you. Let me know. I'd really like to contribute something to this project.
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Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt

[Edit] If you're struggling to get the soundtrack, I can help out by buying it from Amazon or something, and shipping it to you. Let me know. I'd really like to contribute something to this project.


I should be getting the soundtrack soon.
You already have contributed with lots of ideas and information

The storyboards actually do look 2.35:1. But there are panning shots of some photographs that might cause a few problems.

The Alternate Intro audio is going to be a problem. I can improve it with the correct music from the soundtrack and maybe some of the repeat dialogue from the other intro.
It's really difficult to hear the dialogue in places, you can hear the wind machine in the background!

I was just thinking the other day there will be no titles at the beginning, does it matter if there are none ?


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You could probably keep most of the titles. It would mean editing the alternate intro.

Most of the initial credits are shown over forest animals and forest locations. You could use them in the alternate intro as some of them are already there, maybe just different shots.

Then we would see the initial Blunder shots from the alternate intro. He meets Blix and co etc.

Then when we get those shots of Blix stalking the lights we would go back to credits footage. Most of those shots are used in the credits, but in different positions. You'd also benefit from the better quality Blix shots. The timing between the different credits wouldn't be consistent, but it would be better than not having them at all.

The only 2 credits you'd have to lose would be Hjortsberg's and Scott's as those 2 are transposed over the giant tree, which isn't shown in the alternate intro. Unless you use those 2 shots just before they walk into the tree, after all the galloping shots.

It's your call, but with some nifty editing, it could be done.
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Looks like it will be quite complicated to edit.

I haven't done a proper comparison of the shots in the title sequence and the alternate intro.
I have a feeling it might mess up the order and pace of the credits, if I use the exact shots.
You're right though, most of the titles are over forest and animal shots, and the alternate intro could be changed to be like this.

Good idea to reintroduce the tree shot, as that's where they end up.


I watched my edit last night checking for problems and have re-edited some parts of the movie.
I mistakenly put the black apple/glass filling scene in the wrong place. I also removed a couple of redundant shots I had added. I have however added back two shots of the cook and the demonic cherub things from the AC intro. Makes Screwball's reaction more understandable, when he decides not to stay and follow the others.

My previous post has been changed to reflect the differences.

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Originally posted by: LeoneNut
Looks like it will be quite complicated to edit.

I haven't done a proper comparison of the shots in the title sequence and the alternate intro.
I have a feeling it might mess up the order and pace of the credits, if I use the exact shots.
You're right though, most of the titles are over forest and animal shots, and the alternate intro could be changed to be like this.

Why not use the DC intro verbatim right up to and including the credit of Asheton Gorton. Use that to replace everything in the alternate intro up to the first shot of Blunder walking through the stream. The only shot that would have to be edited out would be the close up of Blix's boots which is only shown later. The rest is mainly replacing all the Blix shots minus the 2 tree shots, which you could slot in later at the tree entrance. I'm saying this from memory as I'm at work and only have the EC on my machine. I'll look at it in depth when I get home.

Originally posted by: LeoneNut

I watched my edit last night checking for problems and have re-edited some parts of the movie.
I mistakenly put the black apple/glass filling scene in the wrong place. I also removed a couple of redundant shots I had added. I have however added back two shots of the cook and the demonic cherub things from the AC intro. Makes Screwball's reaction more understandable, when he decides not to stay and follow the others.


Cool, use as much extra AC footage as you can make work.

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Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt
Why not use the DC intro verbatim right up to and including the credit of Asheton Gorton. Use that to replace everything in the alternate intro up to the first shot of Blunder walking through the stream. The only shot that would have to be edited out would be the close up of Blix's boots which is only shown later. The rest is mainly replacing all the Blix shots minus the 2 tree shots, which you could slot in later at the tree entrance. I'm saying this from memory as I'm at work and only have the EC on my machine. I'll look at it in depth when I get home.



This is sounding more and more like a good idea. The alternate intro was in a rough state anyway and not fully edited.

I find it frustrating, I too post from work sometimes, and just want to go home and check out what was talked about here


I'm going to have to re-watch the AC sometime and look for other shots I may have missed.
I used to watch this version as a kid many many times, but I still find things I missed. I used to think Brown Tom was called Rum-Tum until I finally saw the DC


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Now I wish I was at home too so I could look at the two beginnings.

I think the original opening has more footage intercut right at the beginning than the director's cut but I could be wrong.

Either way, using the Director's cut as the basis of the opening is a great idea.

I also think there may be a shot or two of Blix in the beginning of the American cut that is not in the Director's cut (I decided to check this statement the best that I could - I checked my notes on the various versions and I didn't note any differences there. Maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly.)

Either way I think you are totally on the right track.

Sean