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Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this? — Page 13

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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I'm trying to trick you guys into lowering your standards just long enough to realize you don't have to.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Man that is a watertight seal you have on your opinion there isn't it?

It's not going anywhere.
You know, talking to yourself is not a good sign...
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Man that is a watertight seal you have on your opinion there isn't it?

It's not going anywhere.


Yeah? And?

I was open minded enough to give the PT more than a few chances. I saw each multiple times in the theater and then again on DVD. They had more than enough chance to connect with me. They don't. And I'm not the only one this has happened to, so it's not me, it's the movies. I don't see why my or any other person's opinion seems to matter so much to you, Gomer. You argue incessantly that it's us, not the movies and we say that ain't so.

You just can't wrap your head around the concept that some people think these movies aren't good. Of course, you could be just screwing with us too...

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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You guys could save yourselves a lot of time by just enjoying what we got...

Enjoyment isn't based on a conscious decision. Sometimes there are obvious reasons for enjoyment (or lack thereof) and other times it is more subjective. Either way, you don't do a 180 for the heck of it.

If your boss is constantly rude and disrespectful to you, you don't just wake up one morning and decide, "I think I'll enjoy working for my boss from now on." If a museum you frequent has what you consider to be an ugly painting, you don't just decide "Next time I go to that museum, I believe I'll start enjoying that crummy painting." It doesn't work that way.

This kind of reminds me of a post by Ingo Sucks or one of his relatives/alter egos. He was asking if Star Wars should still be his favorite movie or if it should be The Thief and The Cobbler. That's right, he was asking for advice on what his opinion should be! Amazing. Apparently he should have got in touch with Gomer to discuss it.

Pink Floyd -- First in Space

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I really don't anything to say at this time, I just want people to read my sig
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
I love sigs.

-------------------------
Go-Mer-Tonic is a troll. His focus has determined this reality.


And yours, Cable, is among the best I've ever seen!

Pink Floyd -- First in Space

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Wow my little post based on a random thought I had sparked more discussion than I thought it would..., interesting. *munches on toast*

I don't think I can add anything special or new to what's already been said in better ways then I could write them, except that after years of experience discussing star wars online I think for sure I've gained some important perspective on the whole matter and have my own priorities straightened out better.

The OT is a significant part of cinema history, and even moreso pop culture history. That's why I even joined this site. If it were just "the original pirates of the carribean" or whatever site, I wouldn't care as much. But I truly believe that the original star wars deserves to be treated with the uttmost respect. Is it top priority in my life? No. There are serious real world problems, sick children, atrocities commited every day, stuff that goes beyond my desire to preserve history that I'm thinking should be at the TOP no matter what. In other words, if I was given a choice between helping my niece or nephew somehow and having the OT preserved perfectly tomorrow, I'd choose the former.

That's just the way I think, personally. Arguing all day about the PT and ot and bla bla bla bla bla, I'm actually quite sick of it. These movies are made for entertainment and if that's what they accomplish, entertaining people, then they've done their job. Whether they are actually good or not, that's what's up for seemingly endless debate online. I know deep down I hold star wars very high as a example of what great film is supposed to be and most of my dissapointment with the PT, beyond the bad acting and writing comes from knowing that with just five more minutes of thought put into things here and there, it could have been improved, maybe not meet the high expectations, but come to a level that doesn't embarass itself or insult our intellegences as an audience. It reminds me of a line from yoda in esb where he warns luke that the path to the dark side is the "quick and easy path" And it simply seems to me that lucas using his cgi is doing just that, taking the quick and easy path.. All it would have taken was a little more thought. No one expects perfection, just good quality.

All that longwinded stuff said, I just felt compelled to inject my thoughts at this point I guess not to engage in any debate but more to clarify why I'm not. It's not out of fear as one person probably thinks. It's out of realizing there's so much more to life than sparring online for years and years and years... and years and years and years... there has to be. And maybe what I say will have some positive impact. I don't know. If it does, then good.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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I know deep down I hold star wars very high as a example of what great film is supposed to be and most of my dissapointment with the PT, beyond the bad acting and writing comes from knowing that with just five more minutes of thought put into things here and there, it could have been improved, maybe not meet the high expectations, but come to a level that doesn't embarass itself or insult our intellegences as an audience.


This is quite simply an amazing statement!!! It sums up absolutely everything about the whole situation with the PT. If only PT gushers and Lucas lovers could get this through their heads.

A standing ovation for this....

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I agree. The SW saga is a six part lesson in how a film becomes more and more artificial-eventually to the point of complete CGI-instead of actual plot, and then it is hyped up by a handful of PT gushers.
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Definitely agree that SW is a 6 part lesson...in what to do and what not to do when making a film series.

Personally, I blame Lucas' directing. He couldn't direct traffic without turning it into a total clusterfuck....
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
He couldn't direct traffic


I just had to point this out as being the best burn you could ever give a director!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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You know...we haven't heard from Gomer today....

...his idol is taking some severe bashing today. Why hasn't he swooped in for the rescue?

Maybe he can't take the heat...
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
You know...we haven't heard from Gomer today....

...his idol is taking some severe bashing today. Why hasn't he swooped in for the rescue?

Maybe he can't take the heat...
Oh, man! You've totally jinxed it now! You should have focussed on Go-Mer-Tonic not existing. That would have determined it to be reality.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Hey,

I just had to sign up after flipping through this thread and trying to decipher what the fuck this Gomer is trying to achieve. What's with all the second-rate philosfy? Did you mould your fuckin' face after Yoda or something? More like PT-Yoda if you ask me, so you're more like a degenerate, computer fuck. You're CGI-bullshit. You can't just debate some one with supposedly preceptive, but essentially, extremely cringeworthy, and fuckin' meaningless one-liners. It doesn't work like that. You're not Kant, you're not Yoda, you're not even fuckin' Miyagi. You're not a magic bean, seed that sprouted into some fuckin' philosofy beanstalk. Let's face it.

I'm all for niceness and fuckin merry making on the internet, but this guy tops it all, this is fuckin' ridiculous. I just hope he's a big, phoney prank, but I'm not sure, cause you guys say he's been presenting his case like a shitty lawyer for ages now.

Any way, nice to meet you all. ;P
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Welcome to the board, Major!!!

That is....if you're not already a member of this board and just posting under a different guise. Sorry for the suspicion....you could be Gomer for all we know....

But if you're for real, welcome and enjoy the board, Gomers notwithstanding.
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Haha, don't worry, I'm not Gomer! Do an IP-check or something if you want to. ;P

I'm from Amsterdam, don't think a guy like Gomer would live there!

And thanks for welcoming me, suspicion aside!
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Long post, but I think I tried to sum up why were all here.

After reading your post Weyseed, I understand where you are coming from, and at times I get a bit frustrated and wonder what the hell is going on in the world of the internet. Then I take a step back and realize........it is the internet. The internet to me is like talk radio in the US, it is a place for a good debate, a heated debate, and alot of bitching, and that makes it entertaining, but in the same vein it gets a bit ridiculous at times.

I think the problem with the SW fanbase and the sniping on the internet stems from the OOT/SE debate, not the PT movies, and that is the big fallacy among fans like us. Sure we debate the PT, sure we talk about what if, and sure we talk about how Lucas dropped the ball that we got so juiced up for in 1999. But the one thing I have noticed is there is no hatred towards Lucas on the PT, there may be frustration of a bad product, and there may even be disgust among many of us about the way they turned out, but for me personaly, I hold no hard feelings towards Sir George when it comes to the PT movies, they are what they are, and it is fun sometimes to speculate how they should have turned out. I'm sure many Matrix fans do that with the sequels, or Jurassic Park fans do the same, it is the nature of sequels that turn out average, you speculate how it could be better.

What the real problem with the SW fans on the internet and the frustration with Lucas stems from the OOT and how it is treated these days. I will say it and say it again, if Lucas never touched the OT movies and there were 6 SW movies sitting out there: 3 OT & 3 PT, I would not even be here posting right now. I would have the trilogy I love in my collection in great quality, and the trilogy I think is sorta entertaining because it is SW, case closed.

But why are we all here? This site isn't called, "PT sucks.com" or "Prove the OT is better then the PT.com", it is called, "originaltrilogy.com." And every other debate that happens stems from the problem of not having the OOT in any good form on DVD and respect circa 2006. I log on here everyday in hopes that one day I will see, "Lucas plans to restore the OOT in the 30th Anniversary Boxset!" Let the celebration begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But what happens is I log on here, and nothing, another day of disrespect for the greatest trilogy of all-time. And then I see people like Gomer tell me, 'This is the best quality the OOT has ever been." Yeah, it would be like myself having a 1995 Ford Probe, and then trading that in for a 1996 Ford Probe and saying, "This is the best car I have ever driven!!!!"

If Lucas would have never changed the OT movies, SW debates would be so different and there would be no huge divide like there is now. There would have been some divide over the Prequels, but that debate has shifted to OOT fans vs SE/PT fans, so now it is even greater! The OOT fans have taken the side that the PT sucks, and the PT fans have taken the side that the SE are great, and justify that the PT is just as great.

The day the OOT is remastered to great quality, I won't post here anymore, cause my job as a SW fan on the internet is over. As Weyseed said, there are more important things going on in the world, and in the grand scheme of the Iraq War and world hunger, the OOT is really irrelevant. But this is entertainment, and we all need to unwind from our daily life and just talk about something that is really trivial to the grand problems of the world.

So in the context of a vice in our life, this is a war, a war to keep these movies alive, cause no generation after us will even care. The reason it is still talked about and debated is because there are so many of us, and Lucas knows the biggest fanbase he ever had was the OOT fans, and as much as he only wants the saga to be of the 6 movie verisons that he see as his vision 'du jour' in 2006, 2007, 2008, etc, he knows that he is going to have to remaster the OOT somewhere down the line, via the 30th anniversary Boxset, Blue Ray HD-DVD, cause we are not going away. Or atleast I know I am not.
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I have to say I have always wanted to Visit amsterdam.
Your focus determines your reality.
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I agree that a lot of the divide would cease if the OOT was available in equal status. Just like fans who loved Star Wars in 1977 but thought the sequels weren't very good moved on thirty years ago and do not pester ESB/ROTJ fans, a similar occurence would happen--PT fans could enjoy those film and OOT fans would think they are idiots but otherwise leave them alone.

But i am not as optomistic that that is all it would take. Lucas has basically ensured that there will always be debate as long as there are OOT fans around--because he has subsequently created another film series that uses those films in their plot. When i watch Empire Strikes Back, i am not really watching the same film as, say, Go-Mer Tonic, or any PT gushers--for them, the film is interpreted and viewed in a completely different manner. I have noticed this problem begun to creep in to TFN about a year ago once the six-episode "Saga"-with-a-capitol-S was complete and the fans slowly began drifting towards their respective versions. For PT/OT preference it is one thing, because the OT'ers can just ignore the other side--but the PT lovers don't ignore the OT because it is part of their series as well. Theres no such thing as "just a PT fan" as there is with "just an OT fan." Because of this, there is inevitable overlap--take a look at the "Classic Trilogy" forum on TFN: discussion can ask a question, and get two different answers, ones that aren't just in disagreement over speculation but that aren't compatible with each other because the issues interpretated by the PT fan don't exist in the OT by itself. The PT fan will look at Obi Wan walking up to Chewie in the cantina and say "he knew Chewie would help because he knew the wookies helped the Jedi long ago and maybe Yoda even mentioned Chewie's name since they were combat comrades in the clone war"--but the OT fan will just stare back in bewilderment and say "what the fuck are you talking about?"

There are actually three different film series that all use Star Wars as the basis for the content.
The first is Star Wars, the 1977 film as a stand-alone fairy tale about Luke growing up and becoming a hero.
The second is the OT, the 1977-1983 series about Luke becoming a Jedi, redeeming his father and toppling the Empire with his Rebel friends.
The third is the PT-OT I-VI "Saga", the Tragedy of Darth Vader, concerning Anakin Skywalkers rise, fall and redemption, set alongside the fall of the republic and then rise and fall of the Empire and Sith.

There is even an intermediate version of the three in the 1997 SE, which would be used as part of any of the versions.

Fans of the first version aren't around because there is no such place to discuss only the 1977 film and its universe. The second two groups however must share, and the two films they discuss not only are not the same but are usually incompatible or contradictory. Lucas is ultimately trying to do to that second group--the OOT fans, us--what happened to the first group of Star Wars-only fans: be gradually squeezed out as members of subsequent versions gain in number and overthrow the old group as the dominant interpretation of the series.
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Okay, seriously, your posts are applause-worthy, Zombie. Well said.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Zombie, I 100% agree of how the 'saga' fans interpret the series now, and that is totally different then you and I. But I believe if Lucas never touched the OT, and we just simply had the OT & PT as 6 movies as the saga, it wouldn't be a divided.

The problem is with the SE, there are two actors at the end of ROTJ now, Shaw & Hayden, plus there is a different ending in ROTJ too. The CG stands out in SW, or ANH now, that wasn't there in the OOT version, so that is why many fans like myself get mad, cause Lucas is fucking with the OT movies.

I think you underestimate how many people don't like ESB/ROTJ who loved SW in 1977. I think many fans became huge fans because they really liked SW in '77, but loved ESB in 1980. That is why the OOT base is so huge, you have 2 huge groups of fans whose favorite movie of all-time is either SW or ESB, and NO movie series has that. Most people I know love Superman:The Movie, and like Superman II, or love Terminator and like Terminator 2, but nobody I know has a majority of fans who love Terminator as their favorite movie of all-time, and then another base of fans that love T:2 as their favorite movie of all-time, and that is why the OOT base is so huge.

I still think if Lucas never changed the OT movies one bit, many of us wouldn't care what PT fans think of the saga now, just as ALOT of people I know laughed at Yoda the puppet and Darth Vader being Lukes father in 1980, they thought that was utterly ridiculous and ruined the series. But the bottom line is Lucas didn't go back to SW '77 version and change dialogue between Luke/ObiWan that jived with ESB now, or added effects to come closer to ESB/ROTJ so they would flow better. The bottom line is the movies worked from 77-83 for a hell of alot of people, and Lucas didn't need to change shit, and that is what bothers people like me.

I can't get excited about the upcoming Saga Boxset next year cause I know Lucas is going to change the movies again, and it is to the point where he is just tainting the things in my mind, cause you keep asking yourself, "Is this it?" The only driving force of me being a fan is the end game: The OOT on DVD in great quality.

If Lucas would have just kept the damn OT movies the same, I would have gladly bought boxsets, HD boxsets til the day I die. Even if each of them contained the PT movies, it would be all SW to me, and I just wouldn't watch them as much. But now Lucas is asking me to continue being a fan when I don't like the SE or PT? Thats the problem, and that is why I think the SE/OT is the worse thing that happened to SW, not the PT. These same people who love the SE, would love the OOT just as much if it came out in great quality today, so I believe Lucas never gained one fan from the SE, he only alienated a whole lot.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
The PT fan will look at Obi Wan walking up to Chewie in the cantina and say "he knew Chewie would help because he knew the wookies helped the Jedi long ago and maybe Yoda even mentioned Chewie's name since they were combat comrades in the clone war"--but the OT fan will just stare back in bewilderment and say "what the fuck are you talking about?"


Hah, exactly!

Oh, it’s all so lame. I never imagined, back in 1995, that the special edition rumors would lead to a version of the Star Wars trilogy that would seriously try to replace the original, or lead to a "saga" that would try to drastically change our perception of the entire series. Star Wars deserves better. It was an amazing film series for me to love while growing up.

I agree with CO. If Lucas had given both versions of the original trilogy an equal amount of support (at the very least), the OT fan base and most of the strong dislike for Lucas probably wouldn't exist. As bad as the PT is, and as stupid as the "saga" perspective makes the OT, the fact that I know George wants to erase the original films and all notion of the original perception of them is what truly upsets me.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I agree with ALL of you here.

The PT is not really the problem. The SE is. If the SEs never happened and then we got the mediocre PT that we have now, then fans would just be arguing over how and why the PT sucks, but cuz the SE is there, we argue about the whole damn thing and it's only further divided the fan base.

When you really look at it, the SE is what totally fucked everything up. If the PT was bad, you could just ignore it and focus on the OT, but since the OT is tampered with, you can't really ignore ANYTHING. The PT goes with the SE anyway, not the OOT, so it becomes WAY more complicated.

Shit man...what a way to treat your fans!!! Divide them and watch them squirm. I SOOOOO want to flip a booger in Lucas' face.