In general though, for anyone who’s actually that stupid, I analyze the failures of the prequels because I wish to protect something more valuable and entertaining than they could ever be: the original trilogy in its original form. It doesn’t take a genius to understand that. I’m on the defense here as a fan. I’m working to convince people of what is better.
Originally posted by: CO
Anakin turning evil should have been because of the Clone Wars and getting 'caught' up with all the politics of the galaxy.
Wars bring out the best and worst out of people, and there are many grey areas when looking at a war. Is the Iraq war worth it? Was the war in Vietnam worth it? Should the Americans dropped 2 Atom bombs on Japan in 1945? Lucas could have challenged the viewer to actually consider Anakins stance in the Clone Wars, and maybe think it was wrong, but understanding he may be right.
CO, I basically agree with all of your sentiments, but these are particularly notable. I can understand Vader working to help destroy Alderaan in the original Star Wars, and I see him as taking the only course of action he thinks he can take in his war. His war is to enforce his iron will over all the galaxy, and destroying an entire planet in the course of a war may seem justified to him. His motivation would then be unethical and unfair from a philosophical standpoint, but I could see a person deluding himself enough to hold that viewpoint and still perhaps be redeemable.
In addition to that sort of moral decline though, I didn’t mind the idea of the dark side of the force enslaving a person’s mind. The idea of enslavement made sense to me in Jedi because I believed it couldn’t override Anakin’s ability to choose good or evil. In other words, the more he was enslaved, the more he had to have made choices in the past that would have lead to his enslavement. Therefore, when under his master’s control, the dark side would torment him and hold him to the evil he compromised himself to embrace.
Originally posted by: zombie84
I don't think the PT failed strictly because of the turn. Personally i felt that the emotional angle of Anakin's turn-- an obsession to save a loved one from death which results in him selling his soul to protect Padme, only to have this very act kill her and thus leave him transformed into a monster--is the most brilliant stroke that Lucas came up with since he made Vader and Father Skywalker the same person in 1978.
Anakin turning evil should have been because of the Clone Wars and getting 'caught' up with all the politics of the galaxy.
Wars bring out the best and worst out of people, and there are many grey areas when looking at a war. Is the Iraq war worth it? Was the war in Vietnam worth it? Should the Americans dropped 2 Atom bombs on Japan in 1945? Lucas could have challenged the viewer to actually consider Anakins stance in the Clone Wars, and maybe think it was wrong, but understanding he may be right.
CO, I basically agree with all of your sentiments, but these are particularly notable. I can understand Vader working to help destroy Alderaan in the original Star Wars, and I see him as taking the only course of action he thinks he can take in his war. His war is to enforce his iron will over all the galaxy, and destroying an entire planet in the course of a war may seem justified to him. His motivation would then be unethical and unfair from a philosophical standpoint, but I could see a person deluding himself enough to hold that viewpoint and still perhaps be redeemable.
In addition to that sort of moral decline though, I didn’t mind the idea of the dark side of the force enslaving a person’s mind. The idea of enslavement made sense to me in Jedi because I believed it couldn’t override Anakin’s ability to choose good or evil. In other words, the more he was enslaved, the more he had to have made choices in the past that would have lead to his enslavement. Therefore, when under his master’s control, the dark side would torment him and hold him to the evil he compromised himself to embrace.
Originally posted by: zombie84
I don't think the PT failed strictly because of the turn. Personally i felt that the emotional angle of Anakin's turn-- an obsession to save a loved one from death which results in him selling his soul to protect Padme, only to have this very act kill her and thus leave him transformed into a monster--is the most brilliant stroke that Lucas came up with since he made Vader and Father Skywalker the same person in 1978.
I wholeheartedly agree. The beginning to RotS was “brilliant” for the most part. Strangely enough, even the dialogue was decent and the acting was good for some strange reason (maybe Lucas wised up on this end). That part of the movie was way, way too long and filled with too much useless crap (like General Grievous acting like an idiot, and most of the simple-minded, political bullshit), but I was actually finding myself attached to Anakin and Padme. I was actually beginning to think I liked them.
However, zombie, Lucas made a gigantic mistake when he kept most of the original “turn” scene. Suddenly, Anakin’s convincingly portrayed care becomes seen in a new and terrible light. Based on the following actions (like murdering innocent kids), Anakin cannot be a person who loves others in a way where he empathizes with them. He only feels hurt when his own selfish desires are in jeopardy. Clearly when we saw him loving Padme so tenderly it was only because she made him feel good in a personal sense. The minute she angered him to even the slightest degree, what did he then do? He senselessly choked her to death. This is just sick.
Unless the force somehow, magically enslaved Anakin after the turn, his psychopathic behavior in the later part of the movie means that all of his love was psychopathic. And, if the force’s enslavement is magical (as I think George intended), then the force becomes incredibly lame. There can be no “good” or “evil” since the force doesn’t allow someone to make free choices. One day, someone can be perfectly fine and loving, and the next day the force will irrationally take over his mind and cause him to murder little children.
So, I’m left with a dilemma, is Anakin a psychopath, or is the force a retarded and self-contradicting concept? I prefer to say that Anakin is a psychopath and then pretend the prequels don’t exist in the same universe as the OT.