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Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this? — Page 12

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You guys could save yourselves a lot of time by just enjoying what we got, because it's all we're gonna get. All this running around being let down by the newest editions to the saga isn't gonna get you better ones.

Try applying a decent attitude sometime. You may just suprirse yourself.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You guys could save yourselves a lot of time by just enjoying what we got, because it's all we're gonna get. All this running around being let down by ... the saga isn't gonna get you (a) better one ...
Well, this is progress!!

Go-Mer-Tonic admits that the PT is not very good!!!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-TonicYou guys could save yourselves a lot of time by just enjoying what we got, because it's all we're gonna get. All this running around being let down by the newest editions to the saga isn't gonna get you better ones.

Try applying a decent attitude sometime. You may just suprirse yourself.



I don't care about the new editions, just like I wasn't clamoring for anything new in 1985 or 1993. Just give me the OOT in a great presentation, and you may be suprised how happy many people here become.

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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You guys could save yourselves a lot of time by just enjoying what we got, because it's all we're gonna get.

You could save yourself a lot of time by just accepting that not everyone likes the direction SW has gone in as you do and that they refuse to overlook obvious deficiencies just cuz it's "all we're gonna get."

All this running around being let down by the newest editions to the saga isn't gonna get you better ones.


True, but don't expect us to lie over and accept the shit sandwich that was handed to us.


Try applying a decent attitude sometime. You may just suprirse yourself.


Lucas making a decent SW movie would be a better surprise.


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I don't care about the new editions, just like I wasn't clamoring for anything new in 1985 or 1993. Just give me the OOT in a great presentation, and you may be suprised how happy many people here become.


I'd be happier than a pig swimming in a pool of hot, steaming shit!!!



Okay...not the best visual analogy, I admit.
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Originally posted by: Cable-X1
I'd be happier than a pig swimming in a pool of hot, steaming shit!!!


Actually, me too...
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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I honestly hope you guys can get that.
Your focus determines your reality.
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We honestly hope so too. That's why we're here....keepin' the faith.
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[clenches fist and places over heart and wears an expression somewhere between determination and constipation]
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I honestly hope you guys can get that.



I honestly hope you will admit you're a troll.

Or should I say that no matter what Lucas does, the fans will never love him?
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Until technology catches up with his "vision". Then we'll all love him. And the saga. Forever.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You guys could save yourselves a lot of time by just enjoying what we got, because it's all we're gonna get.


Oh, REALLY? So should I accept a film like, oh, let's pick a random example here...Alien 3. Should I accept that film just because David Fincher's "vision" was compromised by company suits? Or maybe I should accept it because it was directed by the same guy who did Seven and Fight Club? It doesn't change the fact that much of the film is a bunch of bald British guys running around in tunnels from a crawling CGI monster. Or the fact that it's a complete letdown, both in story and tone, from it's predecessor. That said, are you implying that I should just "accept" Lucas' brand of revisionist history bullshit?

Bollocks, I say. My reality determines that YOUR reality sucks ass.
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
[clenches fist and places over heart and wears an expression somewhere between determination and constipation]


The look of constipation is what I had when I walked out the theater after seeing Episode 3. It was one hell of a turd when it came out, eh?

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Originally posted by: crazyrabbits
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You guys could save yourselves a lot of time by just enjoying what we got, because it's all we're gonna get.


Oh, REALLY? So should I accept a film like, oh, let's pick a random example here...Alien 3. Should I accept that film just because David Fincher's "vision" was compromised by company suits? Or maybe I should accept it because it was directed by the same guy who did Seven and Fight Club? It doesn't change the fact that much of the film is a bunch of bald British guys running around in tunnels from a crawling CGI monster. Or the fact that it's a complete letdown, both in story and tone, from it's predecessor. That said, are you implying that I should just "accept" Lucas' brand of revisionist history bullshit?

Bollocks, I say. My reality determines that YOUR reality sucks ass.


I agree. Alien 3 blew chunks, but when you bring in new directors, you can't always expect that they will adhere to what came before them. Kudos to James Cameron for making Aliens an excellent sequel, but Fincher definitely blew it with Alien 3. It's unacceptable, but somewhat understandable. SW, on the other hand is ALL from the same guy who claims to have a vision. What I think he has is a vision that he makes up as he goes with no foresight. It's too sloppy to be thought out.....and making it up as he goes is just poor storytelling. Tolkien didn't make it up as he went, he had a clear idea of where he was going, plus he got the whole thing straight before he let it out of the bag.
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Originally posted by: crazyrabbits
Bollocks, I say. My reality determines that YOUR reality sucks ass.
[bursts into spontaneous applause]
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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You guys are just so resistant to change that you refuse to understand what Lucas did in the end.


This is something Gomer posted before I jumped back into the fray here and I'd like to comment on it.

First off, I think it's complete nonsensical bullshit. I've been saying since the SE days that changes to the OT would be a good thing. I always talked about SFX changes though. I would like to see every single OT SFX shot redone and updated. No changes to the story, the dialogue, the music, nothing.....just the FX (for a perfect example, see the Director's Cut of Star Trek: The Motion Picture). Why? Cuz yeah, they are dated for one, but the important reason is that when the PT would get made, the FX in there wouldn't "fit" in with the OT FX at all. So I think updating the OT FX to match the PT FX is understandable and justifiable. In fact, I still would like to see that, but ONLY IF the OOT is remastered and given the royal treatment it deserves and then released so that it's preserved for all time. So some change is warranted, but no fucking Greedo shooting first and shit looking Jabbas walking around. Screw that.

That crap about us being resistant to change amounts to shit.
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Hey cable, don't be so close-minded. Be like me

I did this brainwashing trick I learned last night on myself and I tried extremely hard to convince myself that both star wars trilogies work together as one cohesive whole that transitions smoothly to the other and there was no war in iraq and life was perfect and daisies were springing up out of my hair, but FOR SOME STRANGE REASON I couldn't... something called facts was stopping me dude... it was funky.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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First of all, Go-Mer, do you really expect me to believe you’re stupid enough to seriously propose these last few arguments of yours? How can I believe you’re expressing honest opinions if you simply spout the first piece of shit that pops into your mind? I know for a fact that you’re smarter than that, so it makes me wonder what your intentions are. You only want to contradict people for the sake of contradicting them and getting attention. Go-Mer needs sick love . . . .

In general though, for anyone who’s actually that stupid, I analyze the failures of the prequels because I wish to protect something more valuable and entertaining than they could ever be: the original trilogy in its original form. It doesn’t take a genius to understand that. I’m on the defense here as a fan. I’m working to convince people of what is better.


Originally posted by: CO
Anakin turning evil should have been because of the Clone Wars and getting 'caught' up with all the politics of the galaxy.

Wars bring out the best and worst out of people, and there are many grey areas when looking at a war. Is the Iraq war worth it? Was the war in Vietnam worth it? Should the Americans dropped 2 Atom bombs on Japan in 1945? Lucas could have challenged the viewer to actually consider Anakins stance in the Clone Wars, and maybe think it was wrong, but understanding he may be right.

CO, I basically agree with all of your sentiments, but these are particularly notable. I can understand Vader working to help destroy Alderaan in the original Star Wars, and I see him as taking the only course of action he thinks he can take in his war. His war is to enforce his iron will over all the galaxy, and destroying an entire planet in the course of a war may seem justified to him. His motivation would then be unethical and unfair from a philosophical standpoint, but I could see a person deluding himself enough to hold that viewpoint and still perhaps be redeemable.

In addition to that sort of moral decline though, I didn’t mind the idea of the dark side of the force enslaving a person’s mind. The idea of enslavement made sense to me in Jedi because I believed it couldn’t override Anakin’s ability to choose good or evil. In other words, the more he was enslaved, the more he had to have made choices in the past that would have lead to his enslavement. Therefore, when under his master’s control, the dark side would torment him and hold him to the evil he compromised himself to embrace.


Originally posted by: zombie84
I don't think the PT failed strictly because of the turn. Personally i felt that the emotional angle of Anakin's turn-- an obsession to save a loved one from death which results in him selling his soul to protect Padme, only to have this very act kill her and thus leave him transformed into a monster--is the most brilliant stroke that Lucas came up with since he made Vader and Father Skywalker the same person in 1978.


I wholeheartedly agree. The beginning to RotS was “brilliant” for the most part. Strangely enough, even the dialogue was decent and the acting was good for some strange reason (maybe Lucas wised up on this end). That part of the movie was way, way too long and filled with too much useless crap (like General Grievous acting like an idiot, and most of the simple-minded, political bullshit), but I was actually finding myself attached to Anakin and Padme. I was actually beginning to think I liked them.

However, zombie, Lucas made a gigantic mistake when he kept most of the original “turn” scene. Suddenly, Anakin’s convincingly portrayed care becomes seen in a new and terrible light. Based on the following actions (like murdering innocent kids), Anakin cannot be a person who loves others in a way where he empathizes with them. He only feels hurt when his own selfish desires are in jeopardy. Clearly when we saw him loving Padme so tenderly it was only because she made him feel good in a personal sense. The minute she angered him to even the slightest degree, what did he then do? He senselessly choked her to death. This is just sick.

Unless the force somehow, magically enslaved Anakin after the turn, his psychopathic behavior in the later part of the movie means that all of his love was psychopathic. And, if the force’s enslavement is magical (as I think George intended), then the force becomes incredibly lame. There can be no “good” or “evil” since the force doesn’t allow someone to make free choices. One day, someone can be perfectly fine and loving, and the next day the force will irrationally take over his mind and cause him to murder little children.

So, I’m left with a dilemma, is Anakin a psychopath, or is the force a retarded and self-contradicting concept? I prefer to say that Anakin is a psychopath and then pretend the prequels don’t exist in the same universe as the OT.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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The worse thing Lucas did was make Anakin unlikable or whiny in AOTC, cause that just turned people off to not care about the guy from the first minute of the movie. As much as think TPM is pure shit when it comes to filmaking, Lucas got Anakin right in that movie. I remember being floored to think this kid was actually a good kid and not the typical bad kid on the block who grows up and is in trouble. So right there Lucas totally changed my perception of Anakin, and made him as likeable as Luke in ANH, but only younger.

So what happens in AOTC? He skips ten years of character development and makes him the exact opposite of everything he did with Jake Lloyd in TPM. Now he is a prick, he is a whiner, and better yet, a stalker in someways. He is NOTHING like the Jake Lloyd character, and what happens is you start hating the guy. I equate Hayden in AOTC to Barry Bonds in baseball or Terrel Owens in Football, great players who are the best at what they do, but it is so hard to root for them cause they are the biggest doucebags in the world. And when something bad happens to them you are glad they are getting it.

Anakin should have been just as nice as Jake Lloyd character in TPM until his mother dies, and that is when he should have started going wacky, so there would be an explanation as to why he becomes unstable. He should have been the personality of the trilogy, meaning he should have acted like the average person on the street like you and I cause he wasn't trained as a jedi at a young age. He shouldn't have been Han Solo, but he could have been LIKE him being this care free guy who had alittle spark in his personality, and that doesn't jive well with the staunch jedi.

Anakin outgoing personality should have contrasted with the staunch jedi personality, and that would be the whole tragedy of it all, he never fit in from day one cause he grew up for 10 years as this normal boy. Fuck the whole slave plot, fuck the whole virgin birth, just the fact that this kid was playing with his friends for 10 years like every normal kid would contrast every jedi that was found at birth. Lucas should have showed how annoyed they got at his personality, his daring style, but they would not relieve him as a jedi cause this kid was special, and they would bend the rules for him as much as they could.

I never liked Anakin after TPM, and that goes a long way to caring about his fate when the shit hits the fan. Did Lucas do this on purpose? Did he want him unlikeable because he becomes Darth Vader? Does Lucas even want you to care about this character? I would love if someone could find a quote of him explaining Anakins likeableness and how he feels the audience should react to him. I honestly thought he was a prick, and couldn't give a rats ass about him as he was burning up, for me that is the biggest failure of the PT.
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But if Anakin doesn't jive with the Jedi and is an outsider from day one because he had a chance at a childhood and developed a personality and ultimately in the end he goes bad, this only reaffirms the Jedi's stance that kids must be found at birth and trained from then on.

This also reaffirms George's notion that children have their blood tested at birth to see their force potential.

Fuck it I agree, but throw it all out the window and start again. Have kids train to become Jedi when it is realised they're strong with the force because they start displaying their abilities in the midst of their childhood. Like Anakin but it should have been the norm.

Luke should have been too old because he was an adult. And Anakin if you would of preferred to see him Luke's age as many do.

Let all the Jedi have personalities. It makes for a more interesting movie, instead of dudes is a rubber mask sitting in a chair. Obi Wan and Yoda had one each in the OT so why do the Jedi have to be staunch in the PT. Let them be individuals with different opinions and philosophies not monks with a strict code and guide lines.

I watched Seven Samurai last night. Each Samurai is different, an individual with a personality but still with a deep dedication to their craft.

That's enough rambling for now.

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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Go-Mer your basic stance seems to be "these are the movies we got so we might as well enjoy them." In other words, "lets all lower are standards rather than be unhappy." This perhaps is a moving example of the utterly irrationally emotional investment and love that certain fans have for the saga, and i think thats a testament to the power of the OT. However, i refuse to lower my standards simply because a film is below average. There are plenty of better films and filmmakers out there that ensure that the standard of quality can be maintained at an acceptable level. Its basically like a dissapointed parent saying, "well my son turned out to be a delinquent, but he's the only son i have so might as well love him." Except, unlike a parent, we had no part in the creating of the PT, nor do we have any hope of undoing or altering the films for the better. Perhaps Lucas can love his own flawed creation, much the same way a father can still love his flawed son, but to ask strangers to have the same level of sympathy is inappropriate.
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I'm trying to trick you guys into lowering your standards just long enough to realize you don't have to.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Here is the jist of the OOT, and why it differs from any movie trilogy, with the exception now of LOTR. The OOT has two great movies that stand on their own as classics: SW & ESB. ROTJ is not a great movie in a movie sense, but in a SW sense as relation to being part 3 of the OOT, it is a good ending to a great trilogy. Why ROTJ works is that you begin to watch it only as part of the story, and don't watch it as a singular movie and how it stacks up with all the great scifi movies.

If ESB is the same quality as ROTJ, then I am not an OOT fan, cause it wouldn't be worth it to watch 3 movies as part of a story where I am only really love one of the movies. But what ESB does is it makes ROTJ worth it to watch cause it extends the story, and for whatever ways Lucas rewrote the SW trilogy from 77-83, overall it does work really well, and is very enjoyable 3 part saga.

The problem with the PT, is that the quality is all over the place, and that is why so many fans have just put their hands up. Most fans have a huge problem with TPM or AOTC, or both. Many fans like ROTS, but because the two leadup movies are duds, they have a problem cause they can't wait til they get to Episode III, and still have to watch 2 movies to get to the real story. Many fans like me like ROTS, but think it could have been SO much better, cause Lucas really dropped the ball on key points in the movie, and as Brando said in On The Waterfront, "It could have been a contender!"

So what happens now is that you have this mess of PT movies that tie in with the OT, and it all becomes hard to figure how to enjoy the saga 1-6? Now when I say 'mess', I honestly don't hate the PT movies like many here, I think they are entertaining, fun summer movies, but stacked up against the OT and now trying to see it as one saga, it is like night and day. And what you have left with is: The great trilogy, and the OK trilogy, and I just don't think I will be revisiting a trilogy of OK movies 20 years from now like I do with the great movies from the OOT. So in the end, it is all about quality, and that is what the problem is, not the fans.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I'm trying to trick you guys into lowering your standards just long enough to realize you don't have to.



Gomer....you left home without your helmut today, right?

You're asking us to accept lazy storytelling and CGI diarrhea? Sorry, dude...you have low standards and you want us to come down to that level. Ain't gonna happen......but maybe you're just easily entertained and you like drivel like this. Either way, whatever you're peddling, no one seems to be buying it here.
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Man that is a watertight seal you have on your opinion there isn't it?

It's not going anywhere.
Your focus determines your reality.