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Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 60

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Great work. i really like how you have changed that scene. I would like to suggest something though. Music in the nightclub sounds a little too clinical. maybe adding some echo to it and maybe dampen down the top end would help make it sound more like it is eminating from the club. I hope you don't think this is by anyway a criticism because i think what you are doing is amazing.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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here's a youtube upload: NIGHTCLUB SCENE ON YOUTUBE

I think maybe I need to see the whole thing in context to fully appreciate it. That said the sound does seem kinda I guess the word is artificial or dubbed. The voice work is much better here. I'm getting used to the new voice now; of course my only complaint would be similar to adywan's in that the voice and music could use some balancing with all the other sounds so its on the same level as Obi-wan's voice and sounds like it's more naturally part of the scene than dubbed in.

Here's some stuff I loved to death though: You edited out or darkened the whole gratuitous cameo shot of lucas' daughter and that jar jar actor. THANK YOU. That always seemed too obviously out of place as just the director indulging himself. You found some way, I don't know how, but you found some way to change the dialogue so obi-wan responds to just "I think he is a she" setting up and executing the perfect opportunity for humor that Lucas incredibly fumbled by adding that changeling nonsense. THANK YOU. I can't wait to finally see the finished film!

edit: I was just thinking... maybe you should just axe all the dialogue between anakin and obiwan as they saunter into the club like gansters. I remember watching an old movie that had characters enter in a similar style and they were also talking, but you couldn't hear what they were saying amongst all the surrounding crowd voices until we moved into close-up and they became more audible... just a thought...
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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The dubbing of Hayden is really well done, but it's just too distracting for me. I hope I'm the only one. That one thing sort of detracts from the other beautiful work you've done, and I don't know that it's something I could get used to. I tried to get used to the american version of Mad Max for 10 years and I never could. If you had an alternate audio track with Hayden's real voice, I think you'd have a home run. If the other feedback on the voice is good and you're happy with it, please ignore me. The "vibe" of the scene was truly excellent.
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The voice is a little jarring at first, but when you get used to it, it is great. IMHO. The problem is that TM changed a lot of the original lines so that they are entirely different from Hayden's. If this thing could work with Hayden's TM wouldn't have changed it. Just try to unlearn all that you have learned about the old EP. II, and I bet you will love this.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Incredible clips, TM!

What a different movie SOTD appears to be from AOTC. What a better movie!

Bottom line, I love it and can hardly wait for more.

Nitpicky comments: I agree with a comment that the opening dialogue of the scene might be better if it were drowned out a little more-- because I dislike the line "You know I love you like a father." It's on-the-nose and out of place. And I'm not sure I understand the last shot of a stream of smoke rising from somewhere and going somewhere-- what is it? I kind of like it, but wish I knew what it was.

I am adjusting still to the dubbed voice-- but this will be a lot easier to love than Mad Max because I love Mel Gibson's voice and am simply used to Hayden's. I will soon forget it and that will be a happy day.

GREAT WORK!

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I agree with MTH about the smoke. It is unseen where it is coming from and serves no real purpose other than splitting the scene in the nightclub from the scene outside the nightclub. I don't think you need it because the music in that scene carries you from inside the club to outside the club successfully, without the need of visual aid. This is all constructive criticism.


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Oh my god, this movie will be sooooooo different from the original!!!!
I watched the nightclub scene and first I wasn't sure if the music fits, but all in all it created a nice mood.
I'm sure that this movie will represent the time before the empire in a much better way than AOTC!!!

Master Qui-Gon

Master Qui-Gon/TheRealDealReloaded On Youtube

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I totally love the new tone set by the music, and I thought that the Blade Runner shots were pretty seamless. The only time I really noticed it was the front shot of Harrison drinking that martini looking thing.

I can't wait to see the full movie.
Light speed too slow??
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Okay, I just watched the file. Very impressive. I liked the idea of the Harrison Ford cameo, but honestly those shots of Decker REALLY pulled me out of the scene. The other Blade Runner stuff fits just fine, I could recongnize the scenes (big BR fan) but they felt just fine, and would probably even be unnoticeable by somebody who isn't too familular with BR, but the shots of Harrison Ford are going to be noticable from a mile away. Anybody who knows what BR is will probably put it together. Also anybody who might have watched this movie and been very impressed would immediately recongnize that the shots of Harrison Ford would have been ripped off from some other film. I think it would be awsome if it was a distance shot were you had to being paying attention to notice him, but would easily be missed by the unalert eye. Just a thought.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I liked it though I'm speaking from a blade runner fanboy perspective. I can see how it'd be too out of place for someone though to just see harrison ford chilling at a bar in the middle of a star wars prequel movie, kinda the way lucas just carelessly dumped in a bunch of cameos from the OT the most ridiculous one I can remember being chewbacca's...

Still, you could say it's just han's dad or something.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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I am a BR fanboy too. Yeah, I didn't even think about the fact that non fans might take it as being a Han Solo cameo when Han should be very young at this time.

Just watched the scene over again, I really like the first shot Decker shows up in, because if you blink you could miss him. In the two following shots of him he is right there, no way to miss him. He doesn't even feel like a background charecter which he should be. The camera is too centered on him. Especially in the third shot.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Trooperman,

Impressive work in that clip there. I just have a little constructive criticism.

The cameo by Ford is a GREAT idea, but I agree with C3PX. I suggest you cut it down to just one shot, preferably from a distance.

The thing that really caught me off guard was the music. Is it supposed to be ambient nightclub music, or is it "mood" music? (I don't know how else to describe it. In ANH, I would say almost all the music is mood music, like the sunset or the final battle, but the Cantina is ambient.)

The music is rather fitting, and it's a catchy tune. Especially when we see Zam walking from behind, her pace seems to match the tempo. However, I thought the music was a little too "earthy". It sounds like it came from a French movie from the 60s or 70s.

If the music is supposed to be ambient, I suggest you alter it a bit (the way Ben Burt clipped some of the frequencies for the ANH Cantina music). Plus, have it start (or be in progress) at the Jedi's entrance to the club, not a few seconds later.

If this is mood music, then that's certainly your creative decision. I haven't seen the rest of the movie to put this scene in context. But it's not something I'd expect to be in a Star Wars movie.

But hey, that's just me

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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I like the music, which I think is intended to be ambient. I think it's perfect. In fact, I think you've really created something special out of this scene which was originally absolutely uninteresting and cardboard in Lucas' version and really breathed life into it.

The sound is the real miracle here. All of the mish-mashed dialogue and chattering and laughing... All of that combined with the new lighting goes a LONG way in altering the viewer's perception of the club as actually being populated. The club is alive now, and even better than that, it feels threatening. Like the cantina did.

Now, just as a disclaimer, I've never been a fan of Blade Runner... So, I can't really comment on how those scenes distract from the experience if you've watched that movie a hundred times. And I only noticed Harrison in the one close-up shot, even after watching it several times and looking for him. So, maybe you have to know what to look for. I liked the partial close-up shot. He's got a Bogart/Casablanca thing going on. I think it's fun to assume that's Han's dad...hanging out in bars just like his son...only...we'll never know for sure. And that's what makes it cool.

Anyway, good job, TM. Looks great. I wouldn't get bogged down by all the hair-splitting going on here. It happens in every thread. You can never please everyone.


--InfoDroid

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I just want to thank everyone for the massive imput and suggestions you've given- I'm glad that it general, I think I did most things right.

Thanks to everyone with positive feedback, but I'm just going to address the helpful criticisms (not much time):

Music in the nightclub sounds a little too clinical. maybe adding some echo to it and maybe dampen down the top end would help make it sound more like it is eminating from the club.

Done. It was a quick fix, and after comparing it to the catina in "Star Wars", that's what felt weird about the music. After mellowing it out a little and cutting off some frequencies, it sounds a lot better.

I was just thinking... maybe you should just axe all the dialogue between anakin and obiwan as they saunter into the club like gansters. I remember watching an old movie that had characters enter in a similar style and they were also talking, but you couldn't hear what they were saying amongst all the surrounding crowd voices until we moved into close-up and they became more audible...

That's actually a really good idea- only I don't think I'll just axe all of it (their lips are moving). I think I'll have it audible up until Anakin's "Don't say that, Master". Then, I'll dial the other three lines so low in the mix that their inaudible, because they really aren't necessary. And having the dialogue drowned out at that point is just another step in the attempt to make the voice seem recorded "on-set".


The dubbing of Hayden is really well done, but it's just too distracting for me. I hope I'm the only one. That one thing sort of detracts from the other beautiful work you've done, and I don't know that it's something I could get used to. I tried to get used to the american version of Mad Max for 10 years and I never could. If you had an alternate audio track with Hayden's real voice, I think you'd have a home run. If the other feedback on the voice is good and you're happy with it, please ignore me. The "vibe" of the scene was truly excellent.

I'm sorry to hear this- as for me personally, I'm more used to the new voice than the old voice- in fact, when I play back the original voice, it's almost a little jarring for me now. Of course, that's because I've been working with this so much. I can see how the voice might be jarring, but I hope you can get used to it; the problem with reinserting Hayden is A) We're right back to where we started with Darth Vader being badly acted/portrayed, and B) There are several scenes that have an entirely different meaning which would be impossible to replicate with the available Hayden dialogue.

I'll be experimenting with "garbling" the dialogue to make it sound more natural- but that's all I can do at this point.

I'm not sure I understand the last shot of a stream of smoke rising from somewhere and going somewhere-- what is it? I kind of like it, but wish I knew what it was.

Just smoke coming out of the chimney- an establishing shot. It was an attempt to give it some kind of style, but I'll reconsider whether it really needs to be there. It could be that I originally inserted it because of music timing- I'll have to check.

The only time I really noticed it was the front shot of Harrison drinking that martini looking thing.

I'll just use this quote to represent all of the comments about Harrison Ford. Watching it, I do agree that that third shot of Harrison drinking goes too far. It's funny, because I thought about this, but thought it'd be okay because we never have a full frontal shot of him. Funny how easily identifiable he is just by his eyebrows and his haircut! The question then becomes what to replace the drinking shot and the second Harrison shot with (the one with the woman smoking behind him). I need to fill that time because I worked out the (ambient) music timing very specifically.

Also, I don't have that new high-quality DVD of Blade Runner that came out recently; the only shots I have were actually ripped from the HD broadcast of BR by ShiftyEyes, another member of this forum. But if anyone has any suggestions for replacement shots, I'll see if that would be possible...

Plus, have it start (or be in progress) at the Jedi's entrance to the club, not a few seconds later.

Good idea.

The sound is the real miracle here. All of the mish-mashed dialogue and chattering and laughing... All of that combined with the new lighting goes a LONG way in altering the viewer's perception of the club as actually being populated. The club is alive now, and even better than that, it feels threatening.

Hi, ID! I was hoping someone would bring this up. The background sound in the club is almost entirely all new elements, recorded by myself, Sluggo, and a couple of Sluggo's friends, and I think it's clear that this gave a hugely different effect to the scene (combined with the music).

Also, one thing I've changed was that after Obi-Wan slices Zam, in the original version, there was almost non-existent music and close-ups of people looking shocked. You hear some woman say "Oh my god!" in the background, in a perfect 21st century voice.

For SOTDS, I had silence, and then everyone starts laughing before we cut outside. It may seem like a small thing, but it made a huge difference in the "threatening" nature of the scene, I thought.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for commenting- I really appreciate it and I hope to have this film available as soon as possible.

Oh, and I really like your sig, MTH!

-TM

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Been gone for a while, but wanted to say WOW! Nice job Trooperman! I have Bladerunner on the DVD shelf, but have never seen it, and I thought it blended seamlessly, and the Harrison Ford cameo, I wouldn't change it at all. If you must, just remove the Martini glass scene, but not the half face shot with the woman smoking behind him. I recognized him barely, and my girlfriend who also enjoys harrison field couldn't pick him out. It almost brings some of the magic of the OT into the scene in a strange way.

LOVE the music, I think it's the perfect, and the cues couldn't be better. Reminds me of the Cantina music, but only better.

Lastly, IMO I think the smoke scene will work if it's a slow fade rather than a direct cut into the scene. I'm not sure if the Obi-wan scene is long enough though. The direct cut OUT of it is fine.

CAn't wait to see the finished product.
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Minus smoke, I think that scen was solid. The music needed a more background feel maybe, but I loved it.
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Originally posted by: jedi_jra
the Harrison Ford cameo, I wouldn't change it at all.

I have to agree with jedi_jra, don't change the scenes with HR, I sent the file over to a m8's & he did not even notice HR was in the clip.

Keep up the good work & can't wait to see the finished product.

Happy Christmas

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A lot of you guys are saying you did not even notice Harrison Ford, but there are a lot of BR fan that hang out at this forum, to us it is as jarring as it would be for a Star Trek fan to see Captian Kirk wondering about the bar.

I am in no way trying to nitpick or split hairs, I was just giving the kind of helpful critism TM has always appreciated. I found it jarring, perhaps I am the only one, though I do not believe so.

One way or another, that clip proved to me that this edit is going to be well worth the wait. Impressive stuff TM.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Happy New Year to everyone!

Well, bad news. I'm going to have to use March to finish this up.


I know what you're all thinking. "He's never going to finish this thing. He keeps pushing the deadline." Well, I really wanted to have it done by Jan/Feb, but various things got in the way. Real life. That's all I can say.

The structure is done- the movie is cut from start to finish. Colors/framing/cutting is practically done- over this month I'll just be fixing encoding errors, tweaking things, making the CGI blend more, etc. But I need longer to fix the audio- there are sections where it's just in shambles.

----------------------

With that having been said, I have a new clip for you- SOTDS with a new Star Wars theme: link

Before you say I'm crazy for considering using a different title theme, consider my reasoning:

When Star Wars came out, the title music was fresh, new, and exciting. Now, it's the part people fast-forward through because they've seen it a million times. Some months ago, someone on the forum made the comment (not in this thread) that wouldn't it have been neat if Williams had written a "prequel" Star Wars theme, so that when people watching the saga got to Ep. IV, they'd be hit in the face with the classic Star Wars theme, which would represent the "new hope" of the rebellion.

My second point is that this is by Erich Wolfgang Korngold, whose music was the inspiration for John Williams AND George Lucas as well. This is a little known fact, but George Lucas bought an album called "The Sea Hawk", a recording of Korngold's film music by Charles Gerhardt, and it was this that inspired him to request the same type of score from J. Williams- he even mentioned "The Sea Hawk" in the conversation.

The main title music I have used comes from this same album that was the original inspiration in the first place.

And finally, it's very possible that this was actually the main title theme used in the original TEMP TRACK for Star Wars- notice the similarity to the original Star Wars theme.

Let me know what you guys think...

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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TM, you are a FRICKIN' genius. I know I said I wasn't watching anymore clips, but since this had to do with the opening crawl, I took a peek. Awesome. This info will come in handy for another of my projects. Thanks!
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I'm torn! Part of me loved it because as soon as it started to deviate from the original theme you knew this was something special, but the other part of me is screaming "aaahhh this is not right! how can you change the most recognizable theme from the entire series???"

Three words: GO FOR IT.

Light speed too slow??