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Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this? — Page 3

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Originally posted by: BeeJay

If we just view IV without context of the other films, and as stand-alone film, then the story is over at that, and it's no longer the tragedy of Darth Vader, but becomes the heroics of the unlikely trio we find in Luke, Leia, and Han. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

But if we are to expand beyond that, we need more characters and arcs than just with those three people. Beyond IV, we need a deeper storyline, or the heroics of the trio quickly get worn-out, milked for all they are worth, and become meaningless. Do you see where I'm coming from?


Beejay, you make good points, but I think you misunderstood my statement towards Vaders revelation. In the context of the OOT of SW, ESB, ROTJ, I love 'I am your father.' In context of the OOT, I enjoy the redemption of Vader in ROTJ, as it gives the OOT much depth that few movie sagas have. The bottom line is in the context of the OOT, Darth Vader is NEVER the main character, even when the movie focuses on Luke & Vader in the final hour of ROTJ, it was always about Luke.

What I meant by Lucas going Vader crazy was with the PT, and how he literally made 3 movies to answer why Darth Vader reacted the way he did in the last hour of ROTJ. My point is there is SO much story in the PT that just didn't have to be about Anakin Skywalker, that could have been a plot point.

I agree with you on the characters, the drama of any movie is through the characters, but Lucas put all his eggs in Darth Vaders story in the PT, and now in the saga 1-6, that if you don't LOVE it, it won't be as powerful as the OOT story of just Luke, Leia, and Han.

The PT had so many possibilties storywise that Lucas just touched on. I would have loved for TPM to be about Anakin/Kenobi and essentially that movie tells a story of 2 hours of their friendship set to the backdrop of how Palpatine is planning to become Chancellor. Roughly the same plot as TPM in 1999, yet there is no QuiGon, and there is a 20 year old Anakin is best friends with Kenobi, and IT IS SHOWN ON SCREEN!!!!!! That would have made the duel so much more tragic in ROTS.

There is so much more story about the Clone Wars, that got shifted to a cartoon. There is another subplot in the deleted scenes with Padme and the birth of the rebellion. If you don't read EU, you wont know any of the Jedi that died in Order 66, so that whole scene lacks the drama.

My point is Lucas did not have to make the PT about Anakin, and it is about Anakin, as Lucas said in an old interview, "This trilogy is a character study of how a person goes bad." When marrying the trilogies now, it is so jarring cause that is not what the OT was about. The one great thing about the SW universe is there is always a story to tell, it isn't like other movies series where there just isn't much story beyond the main story, but Lucas is living and dying with the story of Darth Vader, and that is why there is this huge division now of fans.

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Damn, I wish there was a way to inhibit certain users from posting in your own threads... but oh well, I guess I have to be some kind of adult and just deal with it... arrrghh...

Interesting points co, though they're somewhat off topic. I don't care, I like variety.

Now though I've blocked most of it from memory, I see the new trilogy as an unfocused mess that unlike the originals which focused mainly on Luke's journey and of course has many sub plots which culminate in the redemption of darth vader, would have been better focusing on its most interesting aspect, the Clone War and its impact on the characters. As it is now, the clone war just seems like some unimportant little offscreen thing that happened. What the fuck? Ever since we heard of it back in ANH, all of us must have dreamed of what it was all about... but now the mystery is gone. It's revealed to have been a pointless excuse to show off lots of cgi stuff. Wow, just imagine if the clone wars took place over all three instead of being left to those cartoons to flesh out. I never understood that... why not make the war a central part of the films instead of a bit of a scuffle at the end of one movie and another minor scuffle at the start of the next... There's just so much potential wasted doing it that way. It's like a big tease.

The thing is called STAR WARS . So go nuts!





He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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But had they "gone nuts", wouldn't that have just been an opportunity for them to drop even more story and just have even more hours of CG battles?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
But had they "gone nuts", wouldn't that have just been an opportunity for them to drop even more story and just have even more hours of CG battles?


I've got a bad feeling about this... Absolutely, in GL's hands that's all it'd probably be. I can't say that with certainty because we'll never know. The only star wars prequel story that totally takes place during the clone wars is of course the cartoon series. I'm just saying the battles would seem less pointless if the war were a more central point of the story.

I personally wouldn't miss all the tax disputes and rolling in the grass anyway...

What I liked seeing in the clone wars toon was the impact War on these people. Some want to end it, some want to prolong it, some don't care. I guess it'd be a lot like LOTR. There's romance too but at its core its a story of heros versus villains and god, these Villains didn't seem like clowns, they were a serious threat... Anakin wasn't crying and pouting though he still of course retained some of his jerk attitude but whatever, in the next chapter he was kicking ass, eating bugs, being the best pilot ever and liking it... man, everything we were being told about this man was actually being shown. That's what I waited years to see... hmm I'll check my dvd right now in fact. It's been a long while since i've seen this show.

Oh and another very well written story about the clone wars that I loved was the story for the Star Wars battlfront game voiced by Temeura Morrison recounting the war journals of the 501st Legion. This was brilliant. That's what I'm trying to clarify here when I say I'd have liked the war to be a greater part of the story than something that happens offscreen between the movies. In this, we see and hear how the clone wars were viewed through the eyes of a clone trooper and what's very interesting to me was not only play the videogame and blowing stuff up, which was fun, but we hear the troopers question themselves, and they really seem so human, yet they're slaves to their owner's will. That's something I'd never have really realized just by seeing the films. In this way I think there's so much potential in a star wars story that's actually about war. We can go in and see it not just from the beginning or the end, but right in the middle when you don't really know who's going to win and the robots actually seem like dangerous terminators, not silly toys...

So I conclude not just because of star wars can war give way to good drama and cool cgi stuff, but the cartoons, the games, all this EU that I've come to enjoy more than lucas' new films have developed stories about war that highlight and study its effects rather than push it to the background in favor of, I don't know what to call it... lightsaber orgy, perhaps... that happens after all the war's over. I'd have just approached things differently. But that's all over with now isn't it...
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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You know, if I took "Barney" and "The Godfather"---from "a certain point of view"--I can make them fit nicely.
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George's biggest mistake with the prequels was the mess of ideas he was working with. He couldn't keep it all straight, and there was fundamentally nothing profound about his chosen Vader focus. Only after that do I think we can worry if the characters were dynamic or real enough.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I just checked, and that writing is still in there.

It didn't go anywhere.


Not yet. But Lucas is also intent on overdubbing dialogue in various scenes, and as he releases about one special edition per year, it may be gone eventually.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Wait, seriously? Talk to me about that.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I second that, GT!

Mind you, I am certainly expecting Temuera Morrison's voice to be dubbed over all Stormtrooper dialogue in the OT at some point.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Let's start off by saying I do agree with these:

.... GL didn't always have the intention of making Vader the central hero. Luke was very much the central hero from the start, in GL's mind, until probably well after ROTJ was made.

.... They very much could've made the Clone Wars more central to the movies themselves. The Phantom Menace might actually have been a good time to mention them. However: I do believe that it worked out nicely as is. Not perfect, no, but rather nicely.


Originally posted by: CO

Beejay, you make good points, but I think you misunderstood my statement towards Vaders revelation. In the context of the OOT of SW, ESB, ROTJ, I love 'I am your father.' In context of the OOT, I enjoy the redemption of Vader in ROTJ, as it gives the OOT much depth that few movie sagas have. The bottom line is in the context of the OOT, Darth Vader is NEVER the main character, even when the movie focuses on Luke & Vader in the final hour of ROTJ, it was always about Luke.

Luke was indeed the focal character of the OOT. He was the main protagonist of *all* of Star Wars until the PT rolled around and changed everything.

Originally posted by: CO

What I meant by Lucas going Vader crazy was with the PT, and how he literally made 3 movies to answer why Darth Vader reacted the way he did in the last hour of ROTJ. My point is there is SO much story in the PT that just didn't have to be about Anakin Skywalker, that could have been a plot point.

Those three movies were fundamentally about Anakin/Vader, yes. But I do think there was a fair effort made on Lucas' part to incorporate other things. One was as mentioned already the Clone Wars story arc. Wes's opinion is basically that there wasn't enough of it in the movies. I disagree. There was plenty of battling going on during the movies that were a preview or result of the Clone Wars. Much of the prequel trilogy actually centers around this galactic happening, and many fans need to appreciate that the Clone Wars themselves have very little to do with Anakin/Vader, yet they were still included: which means Lucas & team did consciously deviate at least a bit from just Anakin's viewpoint.

Originally posted by: CO

I agree with you on the characters, the drama of any movie is through the characters, but Lucas put all his eggs in Darth Vaders story in the PT, and now in the saga 1-6, that if you don't LOVE it, it won't be as powerful as the OOT story of just Luke, Leia, and Han.

Yes.

Originally posted by: CO

The PT had so many possibilties storywise that Lucas just touched on. I would have loved for TPM to be about Anakin/Kenobi and essentially that movie tells a story of 2 hours of their friendship set to the backdrop of how Palpatine is planning to become Chancellor. Roughly the same plot as TPM in 1999, yet there is no QuiGon, and there is a 20 year old Anakin is best friends with Kenobi, and IT IS SHOWN ON SCREEN!!!!!! That would have made the duel so much more tragic in ROTS.


That's understandable. And while I dislike defending or making an example of AOTC in any way, shape or form, I want us to remember when Obi-Wan and Anakin are in the lift going up to Padme's quarters near the beginning of AOTC. They exchange some friendly dialogue and it really shines through that they have been close friends even when being master/apprentice. I don't see that close of a friendship between say: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in The Phantom Menace. It's made clear enough that such a strong and obvious friendship between master/apprentice is very uncommon. In AOTC, Obi-Wan is much like Anakin's father, and by the time ROTS rolls around, Obi-Wan is very much Anakin's brother. Does anyone else see it this way?

While I understand totally that their friendship could have had more screentime than it did, and that Lucas did need to show more accurately how many adventures the two had went on, we need to appreciate what we did get in AOTC in that scene.

If you'll also notice in ROTS when they land on Coruscant and Obi-Wan has to leave, him and Anakin have another exchange of words, *reminiscing* yet again about events that occured to them during their friendship.

Originally posted by: CO

There is so much more story about the Clone Wars, that got shifted to a cartoon. There is another subplot in the deleted scenes with Padme and the birth of the rebellion. If you don't read EU, you wont know any of the Jedi that died in Order 66, so that whole scene lacks the drama.


Whether for good or bad, much of it does have to be left to imagination or the animated cartoon (have you ever seen any episodes of the two seasons?) It's bittersweet: more movie time for other storylines to develop such as the political storylines, and to show other character interactions. But at the same time, like you mentioned, we don't get a whole lot of friendship moments between Obi-Wan and Anakin.

Those we do get, though, are rather good, if not a bit flawed.

Originally posted by: CO

My point is Lucas did not have to make the PT about Anakin, and it is about Anakin, as Lucas said in an old interview, "This trilogy is a character study of how a person goes bad." When marrying the trilogies now, it is so jarring cause that is not what the OT was about. The one great thing about the SW universe is there is always a story to tell, it isn't like other movies series where there just isn't much story beyond the main story, but Lucas is living and dying with the story of Darth Vader, and that is why there is this huge division now of fans.


That combining of the PT and OOT is very personal and ultimately optional. Regardless of what George Lucas says, those two trilogies are very much different entities of film. One trilogy was from 1977-1983, and the other was 1999-2005. Anyone who says the technology/CGI/filmaking is similar enough to make a believable combination of the two is simply wrong. We have to look at the stories themselves.... some of us want Star Wars to be about Darth Vader so we discuss this stuff to help along the PT, while others want Star Wars to be about Luke Skywalker and no one else. The latter are mainly the people like you. Both viewpoints are equally valid.





Why hello there
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The writing went south during the PT because Lucas simple started to take more and more unilateral control in keeping a cohesive film saga. What then happened was that instead fo a stand-alone film or a six hour film trilogy, you have an unwatchable 14-hour film, riddled with as much contradictory statements as there are CGI effects. This is what happens when marketing and narcissism replace actual filmmaking. (And the reason why film is practically dead in the present day)
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Originally posted by: BeeJay

That combining of the PT and OOT is very personal and ultimately optional. Regardless of what George Lucas says, those two trilogies are very much different entities of film. One trilogy was from 1977-1983, and the other was 1999-2005. Anyone who says the technology/CGI/filmaking is similar enough to make a believable combination of the two is simply wrong. We have to look at the stories themselves.... some of us want Star Wars to be about Darth Vader so we discuss this stuff to help along the PT, while others want Star Wars to be about Luke Skywalker and no one else. The latter are mainly the people like you. Both viewpoints are equally valid.


Beejay, this is long if your interested:


See this is where Lucas lost me, once I realized that he wasn't writing a backstory per say, more of a new linear story that flows right into the next trilogy and now has a whole new meaning.

I wasn't a huge PT basher before ROTS. I thought TPM was average and AOTC was alittle better, but to see more SW on the big screen was kinda cool.

Then in 2004 when the DVD's came out, all of the sudden Lucas started to really focus on Vader alittle too much, and not just with the PT, but he started saying the OT was about his story too. That is where I kinda soured on the PT and the 1-6 saga overall, cause you just can't watch the OT movies in the context of the continuation of Darth Vaders story, cause as I said, the redemption angle was always a minor story that gave the OOT more depth, and that was cool to me.

Then Lucas started tinkering not only with SPX, but with scenes, and I anticipate more to come. He puts in Hayden in ROTJ, he puts in McDiarmid in ESB and changes his dialogue in the process. All of a sudden this backstory I anticipated and wanted for many years wasnt a backstory, it is a rewriting of the whole story in a new context.

Before ROTS, I always thought of the PT as a seperate story that explained the events of the OT, and that is what a backstory does. It is not supposed to be watched before, it is supposed to be watched after to answer those questions from the main story, not totally change the context of the OT!

So all these years I am watching the OOT as Lukes story, and now I am suppose to watch 1-6 and when I get to 4-6, it is the continuation of Darth Vaders tragedy? I am sorry, but that just doesn't work for me, and that is when I kinda turned on the PT, not for the quality issues we always debate via Jar Jar, Midiclorians, and losing the will to live, but the fact of the matter now that the saga 1-6 is WAY different in context now.

Just think of Han Solo in the story 1-6, he is almost irrelevant compared to watching the OOT. The PT is solely about Jedi vs Sith, and sets up the next trilogy for Vader/Emperor vs Luke/Kenobi/Yoda and it all plays out big time in the final half hour of ROTJ, cause that is the new context to the PT story.

Anyone watching it 1-6 now, will they care about Han Solo cracking jokes for 3 movies? Will they give a hoot about Leia/Han falling in love? Will they even care about the rescue of Solo in ROTJ? No, they are going to want to see the main players from the PT, now including Luke, and continue THAT story, cause it was setup so much in the PT. I guarantee you will see new fans who see it 1-6 complain about ANH as this story that is missing Yoda & The Emperor, and not enough Vader.

My whole point is the story 1-6 is not a linear story, cause it has essentially created two different fanbases: Luke, Leia, and Han fans, and Vader story fans. And in the context of the saga, they are TOTALLY different stories. The fact that you can watch the OOT and Darth Vader is just an antagonist whose redemption is a nice subplot in ROTJ compared to the 1-6 story of the full character arc of Anakin Skywalker from little kid to his death. The problem with that is there are huge amounts of screentime that are dedicated to the 3 heroes from the OOT that I think many will see as filler when watching it 1-6 now.

If Lucas just wrote a true backstory, something that shouldn't be watched linearly, then I would still be a Saga fan, cause I could watch the OOT for that story, and the PT for a different story, which does tie to the other story, but it is not a continuous overall story, it is more of a focused substory dealing with why Anakin acted the way he did in ROTJ. That is essentially what the PT is about, it really answers why he did what he did in ROTJ. Now in that respect, that is an interesting sub story to the real story of our 3 heroes beating the Empire, but taken in context now watching it 1-6, Leia/Han are just bit players now.
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^^^
Perfect!! Could not say it better than that.
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Well said CO, well said!

this line is pure GOLD:

All of the sudden this backstory I anticipated and wanted for many years wasnt a backstory, it is a rewriting of the whole story in a new context.
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Originally posted by: canofhumdingers
Well said CO, well said!

this line is pure GOLD:

All of the sudden this backstory I anticipated and wanted for many years wasnt a backstory, it is a rewriting of the whole story in a new context.


Except that it's "all of A sudden". Sorry, pet peeve.

We don't have enough road to get up to 88.
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yeah, well, the last time i pointed out a grammatical mistake, a war erupted. so i figured i'd leave this one alone. (i admit, i'm pretty anal about using proper grammar)

however, none of that changes the fact that the statement is a great way to sum up the negative effect of the prequels & SE
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Originally posted by: canofhumdingers
yeah, well, the last time i pointed out a grammatical mistake, a war erupted. so i figured i'd leave this one alone. (i admit, i'm pretty anal about using proper grammar)


Like capitalization and punctuation?


Anyways, I totally agree with CO. Lucas' changes to the original trilogy constitute a rewrite more than anything else the more they go on. I really have trouble giving a shit if Go-Mer and any others think the changes may be superior. The simple fact of the matter is that they aren't the same films anymore! From a historical standpoint alone, it is a travesty for George Lucas to purposely and systematically supress and erase the original films. Then, from an artistic standpoint, it is fairly easy to argue that the changes are artistically inferior to what they replace (first and foremost, they don't have the same devotion, care, and precise subtlety put into them).

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: canofhumdingers
yeah, well, the last time i pointed out a grammatical mistake, a war erupted. so i figured i'd leave this one alone. (i admit, i'm pretty anal about using proper grammar)


Like capitalization and punctuation?


argh, this is what i get for posting on msg boards at 3am in the morning during the second half of a 12 hour shift.....
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I found this post on TFn, and it justifies what has happened to the saga when watching the PT first, and totally justifies my points of now someone thinking the OT is average, including our beloved Star Wars from 1977. Read on and make your own assessments of how new fans 1-6 will view it:


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Author Topic: Has anyone here ever seen the PT before the OT?
dvdcdr
Registered: Aug '06

Date Posted: 11/27 5:53pm Subject: Has anyone here ever seen the PT before the OT?
Hmm, I may be the only one.

But the point I'm trying to make is, I think the PT is often bashed because it is not nessecarily worse than the OT but different. They honestly are two completely different types of movies, both good in their own respect. However, the first Star Wars movie you see will stick in your head forever. you'll always be preprogrammed to think of star wars as that movie, or at least the trilogy it is part of.

A few years back, with talks of ROTS, everyone kept telling me I had to watch the Star Wars movies. When I kept telling them I didn't know which one to get, they'd say ANH. Confused, I went and rented Phantom Menace. And despite everyone saying how horrible Phatom Menace is, I actually kinda liked it. It wasn't my favorite movie ever, but it was my first taste of Star Wars and I found GL's style of moviemaking very appealing. I could've stopped watching thet SW films right there, but I decided to continue because I happened to like TPM.

I moved on to AOTC, which I liked even more. I thought it a very good film, with good special effects, music, and story. I also did not know about Palpatine becoming emporor or anything at the time, so the story was very perplexing to me.

Then came ROTS! I LOVED IT!!!!!! It's one of my favorite movies of all time! I was going nuts when I saw that movie!!!!!!!! And throughout the whole time, everyone was telling me I was gonna like the OT even better.

So, I eventually watch ANH, and, well, uh...I did not like it at all. I didn't like the unepic lightsaber battle, i didn't like the corniness, i didn't like the plot at all (it really didn't have the right flow to it, with a lot of plot twists and everything. half the movie was just them running around on the death star, and that bored me), i ddidnt like the little catchphrases like nerfherder or anything, and more than anything i did not like the random shooting scenes such as on the beginning with the tantiv IV. even johnny william's music didn't seem as good. now i know it was a different era of filmmaking, and the movie must be good because so many people love it, but it just wasn't what i had in mind. because when i htought of star wars at the time, it was the pt.

i forced myself to watch ESB, which was a lot better, but still not prefered over the pt.

and then ROTJ, not as good as ESB, but better than ANH. It was just an ehhhh movie


Now I'm not here to bash the OT, because it can't be bad or else it wouldn't be so popular. All's I'm saying though is it kind of depends what you watch first.

Just as all the OT fans watching the PT missed Han Solo, the banter, vader, the space battles, ect.

I missed the effects, the epic feel, the music, the plot twists, the drama, the superior use of the force and the lightsaber, and dare i say, it jar jar. no, i wont take it that far.
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Hmm, it's weird. Being very familiar with the OT didn't cause me to hate the PT. I actually find it entertaining and enjoyable (for the most part) and most of my hatred for it comes from how it is utilized justify changes in the originals. I find it weird that seeing the PT first would cause someone to not enjoy the OT. I mean, is the whole thing really effects-driven?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I know young people who find the pace of Star Wars '77 to be incredibly slow and boring. Heheh, it's acknowledged on the DVD commenttary that the pacing was ultra-fast for 1977, but lacsidaisical by current standards.

That, and it being the standalone movie that has little if anything to do with the sequels or prequels can make for a very poor experience awaiting anyone who's watched any of the other "Star Wars" movies earlier.


(I still find the "running [pointlessly] around the Death Star" to be an absurd statement. It's a princess-rescue movie that, in '77, harkened back to movies 50 years earlier. If it now harkens back 80 years, I don't see how the nostalgic plot is any less valid. But whatever.)




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Idiots who claim that we dislike the PT simply because it's not like the OT are idiots. If anything, the OT is the only thing that made me really enjoy the PT the first few times I saw each of the movies. Unfortunately, after analyzing them more closely, I was forced to conclude that they suck. They screw up in too many ways that are too important to me.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Hmm, it's weird. Being very familiar with the OT didn't cause me to hate the PT. I actually find it entertaining and enjoyable (for the most part) and most of my hatred for it comes from how it is utilized justify changes in the originals. I find it weird that seeing the PT first would cause someone to not enjoy the OT. I mean, is the whole thing really effects-driven?


I'd probably have a much easier time with the prequels if Lucas would just swallow his pride for a split second and actually acknowledge the OOT. His whole filmmaking/business philosophy during the mid to late 90's really hurt Stat Wars. Instead of being responsible and making his prequels to fit the originals, he changed the originals to fit the prequels before they were even made. Then, later on, he changed them even more and is bound to change them yet again. I'm sorry, but no amount of changes will ever link the originals to the prequels in an anywhere near seamless fashion.

Also, I'm really wondering what happenned between '95, when Lucas said that he'd be getting other people to direct the prequels, and '97 when he decided to do it all himself. That's just one of many things he could've done differently, but I think the biggest root of this problem tree is the SE release in '97.

EDIT: now that I think about it, he probably screwed himself out of ever getting anyone to direct the prequels after they saw what he'd done to the OT.

Star Wars in many ways belongs to the late 70's/early 80's in that it wasn't merely a product of that era but something that actually defined it. Maybe part of the problem with the prequels is that Lucas is so totally out of touch with the world and is still living in the 70's in his head, which is a bad combination. If the prequels had been made with late 90's/early 00's sensibilities by today's filmmakers it probably would've been much, much different.

I think it would've been best to leave episode IV as the only George Lucas directed film, it's pretty awkward now with I-IV bearing his name.
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Originally posted by: CO
I found this post on TFn, and it justifies what has happened to the saga when watching the PT first, and totally justifies my points of now someone thinking the OT is average, including our beloved Star Wars from 1977. Read on and make your own assessments of how new fans 1-6 will view it:


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Author Topic: Has anyone here ever seen the PT before the OT?
dvdcdr
Registered: Aug '06

Date Posted: 11/27 5:53pm Subject: Has anyone here ever seen the PT before the OT?
Hmm, I may be the only one.

But the point I'm trying to make is, I think the PT is often bashed because it is not nessecarily worse than the OT but different. They honestly are two completely different types of movies, both good in their own respect. However, the first Star Wars movie you see will stick in your head forever. you'll always be preprogrammed to think of star wars as that movie, or at least the trilogy it is part of.

A few years back, with talks of ROTS, everyone kept telling me I had to watch the Star Wars movies. When I kept telling them I didn't know which one to get, they'd say ANH. Confused, I went and rented Phantom Menace. And despite everyone saying how horrible Phatom Menace is, I actually kinda liked it. It wasn't my favorite movie ever, but it was my first taste of Star Wars and I found GL's style of moviemaking very appealing. I could've stopped watching thet SW films right there, but I decided to continue because I happened to like TPM.

I moved on to AOTC, which I liked even more. I thought it a very good film, with good special effects, music, and story. I also did not know about Palpatine becoming emporor or anything at the time, so the story was very perplexing to me.

Then came ROTS! I LOVED IT!!!!!! It's one of my favorite movies of all time! I was going nuts when I saw that movie!!!!!!!! And throughout the whole time, everyone was telling me I was gonna like the OT even better.

So, I eventually watch ANH, and, well, uh...I did not like it at all. I didn't like the unepic lightsaber battle, i didn't like the corniness, i didn't like the plot at all (it really didn't have the right flow to it, with a lot of plot twists and everything. half the movie was just them running around on the death star, and that bored me), i ddidnt like the little catchphrases like nerfherder or anything, and more than anything i did not like the random shooting scenes such as on the beginning with the tantiv IV. even johnny william's music didn't seem as good. now i know it was a different era of filmmaking, and the movie must be good because so many people love it, but it just wasn't what i had in mind. because when i htought of star wars at the time, it was the pt.

i forced myself to watch ESB, which was a lot better, but still not prefered over the pt.

and then ROTJ, not as good as ESB, but better than ANH. It was just an ehhhh movie


Now I'm not here to bash the OT, because it can't be bad or else it wouldn't be so popular. All's I'm saying though is it kind of depends what you watch first.

Just as all the OT fans watching the PT missed Han Solo, the banter, vader, the space battles, ect.

I missed the effects, the epic feel, the music, the plot twists, the drama, the superior use of the force and the lightsaber, and dare i say, it jar jar. no, i wont take it that far.


This right here is exactly why this site is so important.

Damn there's so much wrong with this situation, not just with that backwards perspective on star wars but also Lucas' constant revisions of the originals, people need to be made aware of the history of this franchise more now than EVER before.

It's just so wrong it disgusts me, outright. Like if someone were to tell me, a terminator fan, that T3 kicks the original's ass. I'd feel they needed a reality check. Possibly with my fist but violence isn't the answer unfortunately... damn...

I can definitely see myself becoming one of those trying to preserve history for the youth of tomorrow. I hate how it's just about money to lucas, just about finding a way to make more money from his legion of suckers who'll buy anything he sells. Fuck that. There are people willing to restore and preserve the OT by today's standards for FREE on this very board and I honestly think he'd never allow it unless it could be profitable... it's so sad. Something is very wrong about all this...

He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: TiptupIdiots who claim that we dislike the PT simply because it's not like the OT are idiots. If anything, the OT is the only thing that made me really enjoy the PT the first few times I saw each of the movies. Unfortunately, after analyzing them more closely, I was forced to conclude that they suck. They screw up in too many ways that are too important to me.

I can't say that I ever enjoyed the PT, but prior to seeing TPM I was VERY excited about a new SW movie. There was no reason for me to decide ahead of time that I wouldn't like it. SW defined my youth, and the fact that Episode I was actually being made was like a dream come true.

The only thing that my dislike for the PT has to do with my love for the OT is this: I like good movies. The OT were good movies. The PT were not. These opinions were formed AFTER seeing the films, not prior to.

Pink Floyd -- First in Space