Originally posted by: CO
ObiJeewhyen, here is where ESB ruins the saga, "I am your father!" Now I am not as high on this line as most of my SW friends, who think this is the pinnacle moment of the OT for them. For me, it is still Luke blowing up the death star in SW, that is the cream of the crop of the any movie I have ever seen.
I would like to join in on this, I have some things to say.
While Luke doing away with the Death Star is one of the most powerful climaxes in the saga, the famous Vader line is one of the darkest revelations in dialogue delivered in cinematic history. I cannot really see how anyone could dislike this. It opens up a lot of new storylines and doors for the movies.
Think about it. Luke now knows who his father really is. That is motive for staying on the lightside, because as long as he stays on the lightside and does not succumb to the Emperor, then there is the chance of making his father... a true father again. That's the cornerstone of Return of the Jedi, which never would have worked without Darth Vader giving Luke the truth.
No no no. The trio (Luke, Leia, Han) still remained very powerful heroes on the screen even after Episode IV set them up as the only large heroes. But as the movies progress, and more villains appear, there has to be more apparent heroic characters to balance that out (ei. Anakin Skywalker himself.)
Originally posted by: CO
By Lucas constantly saying it is Darth Vader story now 1-6, or the tragedy of Darth Vader, he has essentially made SW into a fanbase 1-6 that loves Darth Vader and his story, and that is it, cause everything in the PT took a backseat to Anankins story. And now if you look at the saga overall 1-6, the PT was really explains the last hour of ROTJ and why Anakin did what he did to save his son and kill the Emperor. The problem is there is a huge story that we all fell in love with that had to do with Luke, Han, and Leia that is just a footnote now.
ObiJeewhyen, here is where ESB ruins the saga, "I am your father!" Now I am not as high on this line as most of my SW friends, who think this is the pinnacle moment of the OT for them. For me, it is still Luke blowing up the death star in SW, that is the cream of the crop of the any movie I have ever seen.
I would like to join in on this, I have some things to say.
While Luke doing away with the Death Star is one of the most powerful climaxes in the saga, the famous Vader line is one of the darkest revelations in dialogue delivered in cinematic history. I cannot really see how anyone could dislike this. It opens up a lot of new storylines and doors for the movies.
Think about it. Luke now knows who his father really is. That is motive for staying on the lightside, because as long as he stays on the lightside and does not succumb to the Emperor, then there is the chance of making his father... a true father again. That's the cornerstone of Return of the Jedi, which never would have worked without Darth Vader giving Luke the truth.
Originally posted by: CO
What 'I am your father' did to the rest of the SW movies is make Lucas think that EVERY fan loves Darth Vader and wants to know everthing about him. WRONG!!!!! I love Darth Vader as a bad guy, or an antagonist in the OT, but I don't like him as the star of the saga now, that is one of the reasons why I will never be a saga fan.
At first in Episode IV we were kept in ignorance of who Darth Vader was. Lucas said that the fans thought to themselves: "Is there even a human underneath that suit?" We are supposed to see Vader as the arch-villain at first.
But as the story grows and enriches itself through more character development, we start to see that yes there is a man under there, and no, he is not the only hero. He is a fallen hero who has to rise again with the help of Luke.
Originally posted by: CO
Lucas saw how everyone reacted at that one line in ESB, and I personally think he went Vader crazy after that. He pigeoned holed the saga to focus so much on Darth Vader, he has cut out so many would be fans like me who fell in love with the rebellion beating the empire through my heroes Luke, Leia, and Han.
What 'I am your father' did to the rest of the SW movies is make Lucas think that EVERY fan loves Darth Vader and wants to know everthing about him. WRONG!!!!! I love Darth Vader as a bad guy, or an antagonist in the OT, but I don't like him as the star of the saga now, that is one of the reasons why I will never be a saga fan.
At first in Episode IV we were kept in ignorance of who Darth Vader was. Lucas said that the fans thought to themselves: "Is there even a human underneath that suit?" We are supposed to see Vader as the arch-villain at first.
But as the story grows and enriches itself through more character development, we start to see that yes there is a man under there, and no, he is not the only hero. He is a fallen hero who has to rise again with the help of Luke.
Originally posted by: CO
Lucas saw how everyone reacted at that one line in ESB, and I personally think he went Vader crazy after that. He pigeoned holed the saga to focus so much on Darth Vader, he has cut out so many would be fans like me who fell in love with the rebellion beating the empire through my heroes Luke, Leia, and Han.
No no no. The trio (Luke, Leia, Han) still remained very powerful heroes on the screen even after Episode IV set them up as the only large heroes. But as the movies progress, and more villains appear, there has to be more apparent heroic characters to balance that out (ei. Anakin Skywalker himself.)
Originally posted by: CO
By Lucas constantly saying it is Darth Vader story now 1-6, or the tragedy of Darth Vader, he has essentially made SW into a fanbase 1-6 that loves Darth Vader and his story, and that is it, cause everything in the PT took a backseat to Anankins story. And now if you look at the saga overall 1-6, the PT was really explains the last hour of ROTJ and why Anakin did what he did to save his son and kill the Emperor. The problem is there is a huge story that we all fell in love with that had to do with Luke, Han, and Leia that is just a footnote now.
If we just view IV without context of the other films, and as stand-alone film, then the story is over at that, and it's no longer the tragedy of Darth Vader, but becomes the heroics of the unlikely trio we find in Luke, Leia, and Han. There is nothing wrong with that at all.
But if we are to expand beyond that, we need more characters and arcs than just with those three people. Beyond IV, we need a deeper storyline, or the heroics of the trio quickly get worn-out, milked for all they are worth, and become meaningless. Do you see where I'm coming from?