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The Persecution Season is Heating Up
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With a name like "Christkindlmarket" why would anyone think it was a secular event in the first place?
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There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
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It's definitely stupid, but government officials have a right to say what forms of religious recognition will be allowed on government property or not. It's our job not to elect stupid people.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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Originally posted by: Tiptup
I wouldn't call this "persecution."
It's definitely stupid, but government officials have a right to say what forms of religious recognition will be allowed on government property or not. It's our job not to elect stupid people.
I wouldn't call this "persecution."
It's definitely stupid, but government officials have a right to say what forms of religious recognition will be allowed on government property or not. It's our job not to elect stupid people.
No, actually the Constitution says what's allowed on public property. The Free Exercise clause is too often being ignored in today's day and age in favor of the "establishment clause". Allowing a movie studio to display posters about a religious movie does not constitute a congressional establishment of religion.
And this is just the latest example of an overall climate of secular harassment and persecution of religion in general and Christianity in particular.
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If the Government takes down a Christmas display is doesn't effect my faith in my Lord at all....I could care less what the government does....my faith has little to do with what freedoms my government grants and has absolutely nothing to do with the pagan inspired tradition of Christmas....
The established "Christian" Church in America should be more interested in the High Holy Days God gave his people (which we are grafted into) then the silly insignificant "holidays" we celebrate now....
Show me the scripture where God instructs us to observe an annual celebration of Christ's birth.....I thought so....
I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.
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Originally posted by: JediSage
No, actually the Constitution says what's allowed on public property. The Free Exercise clause is too often being ignored in today's day and age in favor of the "establishment clause". Allowing a movie studio to display posters about a religious movie does not constitute a congressional establishment of religion.
First, having a Christian nativity sitting on public property, even while going so far as to exclude recognition of other religions, is not a technical violation of the "establishment caluse" in the constitution in any way. The original intent contained within the bill of rights does not change simply because our modern day judicial system is being run by Secularist zealots.
Second, your right to freely exercise your private religion on your own private property is in no way infringed by the decisions of public officials concerning how to govern public property. If you disagree with their decision, and believe they should reasonably recognize the most popular religion in the country, then work to vote them out of office.
Originally posted by: JediSage
And this is just the latest example of an overall climate of secular harassment and persecution of religion in general and Christianity in particular.
No, actually the Constitution says what's allowed on public property. The Free Exercise clause is too often being ignored in today's day and age in favor of the "establishment clause". Allowing a movie studio to display posters about a religious movie does not constitute a congressional establishment of religion.
First, having a Christian nativity sitting on public property, even while going so far as to exclude recognition of other religions, is not a technical violation of the "establishment caluse" in the constitution in any way. The original intent contained within the bill of rights does not change simply because our modern day judicial system is being run by Secularist zealots.
Second, your right to freely exercise your private religion on your own private property is in no way infringed by the decisions of public officials concerning how to govern public property. If you disagree with their decision, and believe they should reasonably recognize the most popular religion in the country, then work to vote them out of office.
Originally posted by: JediSage
And this is just the latest example of an overall climate of secular harassment and persecution of religion in general and Christianity in particular.
You do a disservice to human beings who suffer under real “persecution” when you throw around that term so lightly. Real persecution is far more horrible than what you describe here.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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I live in a country in which just the mere concept of forbidding something xmas related just due to the fact it's a christian celebration is a concept absolutely foreign and insane, so I can only laugh at this.
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*As opposed to the classical liberalism espoused in ADM's signature.
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
I have an even more radical and left wing view than most north american liberals, and I'd never, ever support such ridiculous movement.
I have an even more radical and left wing view than most north american liberals, and I'd never, ever support such ridiculous movement.
Key word being most. Most rational people of any political persuasion, and probably most irrational ones, realize this is ridiculous. But there are elements in the United States who promote secularism at any cost, even the cost of common sense. I'm sure Brazil has them too, even if they're not as vocal.
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But regarding this specific subject, not really. Even though the massive majority is catholic (I would say something like 95% of the population, with something like 3% jewish and 2% from other religions), something like that over here would be absolutely unthinkable. People from other religions even reference the holidays as christmas, and integrated their own religious beliefs on this particular celebration, such as having a party or something. If you take a look at Japan, you'll see that something similar takes place: while december 25th is not even a holiday, people exchange gifts and give out christmas parties.
Kinda like Bart Simpson once said "Christmas is that time of the year in which all other religions gather up to praise Jesus Christ." (don't remember the exact quote).
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
*As opposed to the classical liberalism espoused in ADM's signature.
*As opposed to the classical liberalism espoused in ADM's signature.
I classify myself as the kind of liberal that would support much of what ADM's signature currently mentions. In history, liberals believed in liberty and fairness, not marxism. Though a few of the notions from his current signature are complete nonsense. The quotes are taken from an ignorantly written tv show though, so I don't blame ADM for their lack of correctness. Self-righteous rhetoric too often sounds good enough to people even though it is too often not accompanied by the truth. Modern politics is plagued with this in america today. It's sad.
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Ah, but the height of hypocracy must be here!
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
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Hey Steve-o! Saving Private Ryan was your last good movie! Until you remember how to make a decent movie, shut the hell up!
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Originally posted by: Tiptup
You do a disservice to human beings who suffer under real “persecution” when you throw around that term so lightly. Real persecution is far more horrible than what you describe here.
Originally posted by: JediSage
No, actually the Constitution says what's allowed on public property. The Free Exercise clause is too often being ignored in today's day and age in favor of the "establishment clause". Allowing a movie studio to display posters about a religious movie does not constitute a congressional establishment of religion.
First, having a Christian nativity sitting on public property, even while going so far as to exclude recognition of other religions, is not a technical violation of the "establishment caluse" in the constitution in any way. The original intent contained within the bill of rights does not change simply because our modern day judicial system is being run by Secularist zealots.
Second, your right to freely exercise your private religion on your own private property is in no way infringed by the decisions of public officials concerning how to govern public property. If you disagree with their decision, and believe they should reasonably recognize the most popular religion in the country, then work to vote them out of office.
There was nothing in anything I've said in this thread about private property. This is public only. The issue is that it's easy to say "vote them out", but as the saying goes if voting changed anything they'd outlaw it.
What's happening here is tyranny of the minority. Some small, well funded liberal secularist groups like the ACLU are engaged in attempting to remove all vestiges of religion from public life. The new dollar coin is a great example. The words "In God We Trust" are now in fine print, on the edge of the coin.
Originally posted by: JediSage
And this is just the latest example of an overall climate of secular harassment and persecution of religion in general and Christianity in particular.
No, actually the Constitution says what's allowed on public property. The Free Exercise clause is too often being ignored in today's day and age in favor of the "establishment clause". Allowing a movie studio to display posters about a religious movie does not constitute a congressional establishment of religion.
First, having a Christian nativity sitting on public property, even while going so far as to exclude recognition of other religions, is not a technical violation of the "establishment caluse" in the constitution in any way. The original intent contained within the bill of rights does not change simply because our modern day judicial system is being run by Secularist zealots.
Second, your right to freely exercise your private religion on your own private property is in no way infringed by the decisions of public officials concerning how to govern public property. If you disagree with their decision, and believe they should reasonably recognize the most popular religion in the country, then work to vote them out of office.
There was nothing in anything I've said in this thread about private property. This is public only. The issue is that it's easy to say "vote them out", but as the saying goes if voting changed anything they'd outlaw it.
What's happening here is tyranny of the minority. Some small, well funded liberal secularist groups like the ACLU are engaged in attempting to remove all vestiges of religion from public life. The new dollar coin is a great example. The words "In God We Trust" are now in fine print, on the edge of the coin.
Originally posted by: JediSage
And this is just the latest example of an overall climate of secular harassment and persecution of religion in general and Christianity in particular.
You do a disservice to human beings who suffer under real “persecution” when you throw around that term so lightly. Real persecution is far more horrible than what you describe here.
School children are forbidden from reading a bible on school property.
Christians were arrested at a homosexual rally in Philadelphia for peacefully protesting:
Philly 11
There are calls in different parts of the WESTERN world to ban the bible as "hate speech" because it condemns homosexual behavior:
Bible Ban
The words Merry Christmas and Happy Easter are being erased from every public forum.
OK, we're not talking about throwing them to the lions, but what will it take before it's called persecution? Can I call it "low level persecution"?
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Originally posted by: BrikHaus81
I find it ironic that Christianity has been responsible for some of the biggest religious persecutions the world has ever known, and now that the tables have turned, all they do is bitch and moan about it. So what if you can't display the nativity scene on government property? Boo hoo. Does that make your faith somehow diminished? I guarantee that if some group tried to put Jewish or other religious icons on government property the Christian religious right in this country would be all over getting rid of that. Maybe you should stop being all "woah is me" for a minute and realize that maybe not everyone in the world is Christian, and maybe your way of viewing things isn't the only way to do it.
I find it ironic that Christianity has been responsible for some of the biggest religious persecutions the world has ever known, and now that the tables have turned, all they do is bitch and moan about it. So what if you can't display the nativity scene on government property? Boo hoo. Does that make your faith somehow diminished? I guarantee that if some group tried to put Jewish or other religious icons on government property the Christian religious right in this country would be all over getting rid of that. Maybe you should stop being all "woah is me" for a minute and realize that maybe not everyone in the world is Christian, and maybe your way of viewing things isn't the only way to do it.
I was waiting for someone to bring up those modern examples like the Crusades (be sure you REALLY know their history) and the Inquisition...
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Originally posted by: BrikHaus81
I find it ironic that Christianity has been responsible for some of the biggest religious persecutions the world has ever known, and now that the tables have turned, all they do is bitch and moan about it.
I find it ironic that Christianity has been responsible for some of the biggest religious persecutions the world has ever known, and now that the tables have turned, all they do is bitch and moan about it.
So, since Christians percecuted other religions back in the middle ages, Christians today deserve anything they get? That doesn't make sense. If you are upset about stuff that Christians did back in the middle ages, blame those who did it, not modren Christians. It isn't right for anyone to seek to silence another's expression of religious views. People of the Jewish and other faiths have equal access to public forums to display their religious icons, and the 'radical religious right' as you put it hasn't done anything against it. No, not everyone wants to be a Christian. Yes, Christians realize that. But it seems like that athiests need to figure out that not everyone wants to be an athiest either.
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Originally posted by: BrikHaus81
I find it ironic that Christianity has been responsible for some of the biggest religious persecutions the world has ever known, and now that the tables have turned, all they do is bitch and moan about it.
I'm sorry, but this is the whole point. People in the Western World are finally, supposedly, free to practice ANY faith they want, and yet peaceful, well-meaning Christians are told they're hate mongers. If you want to blame persecutions of the past on modern Christians, are you ready to say all athiests are like Joseph Stalin? Are you ready to say all Muslims are like Hussein? I sincerely hope not.
If this was going on, I'm sure an element of the far right would. However, I would point out that of the late-in-the-year religious festivals. Christmas is unique in being a national holiday in America.
Maybe you should stop being all "woah is me" for a minute and realize that maybe not everyone in the world is Christian, and maybe your way of viewing things isn't the only way to do it.
I find it ironic that Christianity has been responsible for some of the biggest religious persecutions the world has ever known, and now that the tables have turned, all they do is bitch and moan about it.
I'm sorry, but this is the whole point. People in the Western World are finally, supposedly, free to practice ANY faith they want, and yet peaceful, well-meaning Christians are told they're hate mongers. If you want to blame persecutions of the past on modern Christians, are you ready to say all athiests are like Joseph Stalin? Are you ready to say all Muslims are like Hussein? I sincerely hope not.
So what if you can't display the nativity scene on government property? Boo hoo. Does that make your faith somehow diminished? I guarantee that if some group tried to put Jewish or other religious icons on government property the Christian religious right in this country would be all over getting rid of that.
If this was going on, I'm sure an element of the far right would. However, I would point out that of the late-in-the-year religious festivals. Christmas is unique in being a national holiday in America.
Maybe you should stop being all "woah is me" for a minute and realize that maybe not everyone in the world is Christian, and maybe your way of viewing things isn't the only way to do it.
Oh my gosh! You mean we're not the only people in the world! I never would have guessed this! Thank you for enlightening me.
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Originally posted by: BrikHaus81
First of all, I never said anything about the Crusades
No, you just spoke of Christian persecution of others without specifying examples, which in this day and age usually means the Crusades. When someone wants to equivocate Christianity with being "bad too" they usually fall over themselves screaming "CRUSADES!!". When you cite modern examples I'll be glad to check it out, until then the implication is valid.
You are sorely misinformed. Can you provide constructionist language that supports your point?
If you don't like it, and want to see it changed, then more power to you. But you should get out and become politically active, because complaining about it on an online forum will do nothing.
First of all, I never said anything about the Crusades
No, you just spoke of Christian persecution of others without specifying examples, which in this day and age usually means the Crusades. When someone wants to equivocate Christianity with being "bad too" they usually fall over themselves screaming "CRUSADES!!". When you cite modern examples I'll be glad to check it out, until then the implication is valid.
Freedom of religion in this country is also freedom from the religion of others.
You are sorely misinformed. Can you provide constructionist language that supports your point?
If you don't like it, and want to see it changed, then more power to you. But you should get out and become politically active, because complaining about it on an online forum will do nothing.
Part of being politically active is making sure the word is out, and that is kind of the point of an online forum, is it not?
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