logo Sign In

Has technology accelerated that much?

Author
Time
I have a silly question, but I think it could clear things up for me, and its about the change in video technology. How can the best laserdisc transfer from the 90s end up being the most visually unwatchable DVD today? And, are the 2006 SW DVD's analog?
Author
Time
Is this a joke?

Dude...just think back to ANY technology back 10-15 years ago....Let me ask you this. Did you own a personal computer back in 1997? If you did I bet you thought it was pretty bitchen....the thing is a piece of crap today... most all of electronic tech that was state of the art back then is crap now....anyone have a awesome beeper on there person 10 years ago? I bet there are kids on this forum that have never even seen a "beeper"....

So either you are real young and don't know any better or this is a joke thread....how could anybody be confused with the concept that 10-15 years old tech, in any electronic field, is a joke by today's standards?.......

and no, DVD is NOT analog....

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

Author
Time
That was harsh. Well Im only 20, and this is not a joke thread. Im am only suprised at how fast electronics technology has accelerated in the last 20 years. I mean I understand the analogy. Its just for me to understand how Lucasfilm can release an LD quality DVD in the late 2000's.
Author
Time
I wasn't trying to sound harsh....sorry about that....Lucasfilm can do whatever they want....they have a chokehold on SW....but of course this discussion has been discussed in length here at OT for some time now.....there are numerous threads about this very thing....

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

Author
Time
Come on, is the quality of the new DVDs really that bad? I mean, granted it won't win awards but from what I've seen it seems alright to me given its age.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

Author
Time
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
I have a silly question, but I think it could clear things up for me, and its about the change in video technology. How can the best laserdisc transfer from the 90s end up being the most visually unwatchable DVD today? And, are the 2006 SW DVD's analog?

It does seem like we've gotten pretty spoiled sometimes, doesn't it?

I remember when I got my first VCR and my first VHS tape of Star Wars in the early 1980's, and how thrilled I was. The fuzzy nature of VHS didn't bother me then- I was just in awe of the ability to play my favorite movie on my TV- whenever I wanted to! WOW! It was a pretty neat thing back then. I watched that old VHS tape a million times (or, at least it seemed like it).

To answer your question, the 2006 DVDs are indeed digital (like all other DVDs) and they were made from the 1993 LD masters (which are also digital) but the LDs themselves were an analog medium (at least in terms of the video- the sound was digital).

Author
Time
Man my 486 rocked back in '97!

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

Author
Time
I don't think it is about being spoiled, it just comes down to once you see a better quality of something, for many people they can't go back.

If VHS still existed, and there was no laserdisk or DVD, we would still be in VHS mode of how great the quality is, and wouldn't have a frame of reference of how great DVD quality is. Just think of how when we got a DVD player you could finally skip to any scene in the movie, how you didn't have to rewind the movie, how you didn't have to worry about the tape breaking? Now that is all normal, so now we naturally want better quality as we eventually delved into HD-DVD as they eventually becomes mainstream.

Sometimes I yearn for the good old days of VHS when I didn't know what widescreen was, and I just kinda watched the movie without worrying about the quality, cause that was the extent of quality back then. Then I watch an Anamorphic movie on DVD on my HD-TV and marvel at the quality, so I guess I am one of those fans who just can't go back.
Author
Time
I was 5 when my family bought a VCR. When I finally got a copy of each Star Wars movie on VHS I thought it was the greatest thing ever in my young life. My parents heavily monitored any TV/movie watching I did, so it was a treat to be allowed to watch it. In fact I remember the first time that Star Wars A New Hope aired on network tv. I had become sick that day, and slept most of it, but my parents let me watch Star Wars that night (my very first viewing since I was too young to see it in the theater) and it was amazing, and so I remember that day still it made such an impression. I don't know what movie or other entertainment experience kids today could compare with, but back then it was an end all for me in 1982.

I got my first internet computer in 1996, and yeah, it's basically a piece of junk now. I could use it to play some games, or write papers, but why bother, lol. So I think technology has definitely accelerated very quickly over the past 10 years.

I still have a soft spot for the VCR, tho. Something like your tv always had to be on either channel 3 or 4 to play the movie. Those were the days. It was like picking up some sort of signal from the gods. Turn the dial to channel 3, now Return of the Jedi starts!
Author
Time
It's all relative. The 06 dvds suck because Star Wars shouldn't look worse than Police Academy 4. The End.
Author
Time
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
I have a silly question, but I think it could clear things up for me, and its about the change in video technology. How can the best laserdisc transfer from the 90s end up being the most visually unwatchable DVD today? And, are the 2006 SW DVD's analog?


Very good question. I´m trying to elaborate on this:

First, DVD is a digital format. DVD´s can be mastered from analogue sources by digitizing them. VHS, Laserdisc and 35mm film are analogue formats.

Second: STAR WARS was never the best Laserdisc transfer back then. It was the best looking version of Star Wars, since they used new equipment to transfer the 35mm to video and then to the Laserdiscs. I have lots of Laserdiscs from the same year (1993) but from newer movies which look much sharper and more detailed than this transfer.

The biggest impact as to why these transfers are unwatchable now are the huge advances made in film restauration over the last 13 years. When the DVD format came out and became mainstream, the demand for equipment to do digital film restauration rose, since studios wanted to re-release their old films they had, but had to realize that lots of them were in really bad condition due to decades of wrong storage or very instable film material used back then. Before DVD, very few people in the industry were bothered by this.

It was during this time that huge advances were made in digital film restauration. When Star Wars OOT was restaured, they used a NTSC low resolution telecine transfer, which was then "restaurated" using 1993 technology, like using heavy DVNR noise reduction to reduce film grain and defects. This introduced lots of flaws into the transfer, like ghosting, smearing, etc. Since the transfer was NTSC-non-anamorphic, it could only be used for NTSC-non-anamorphic formats.

Nowadays, film restauration is done completely in the digital domain. Instead of telecining the material, it is digitized frame by frame into the computer, using modern film scanners which yield MUCH better colour, contrast and resolution than the old telecine machines back then. Since the last few years, nearly ALL transfers are usually done at HD (2k) resolution, sometimes at 4K resolution. You always have to remember that original 35mm film yields a much higher resolution than any comsumer HD format available now, not to mention standard television formats like DVD.

When the material is digitized into the computer in high resolution, the restauration team can relatively easily (compared to the non-digital age) change the colour and contrast of the film material to repair the fading of colours due to instable film stock used back then. When this is done, you can use automatic, semi-automatic or manual removal of film defects like dirt or scratches. This works by using an intelligent software which compares the whole movie frame-by frame and replaces destroyed picture information by dirt or scratches with picture information from the previous frames. Alternatively, you could correct those defects "by hand" which means you paint them out yourself. In 1993, all you could do was either leave the material as it is, or using noise reduction algorithms which decreased sharpness and introduced smeared movements, all what you can see in the OOT transfer. Since a few years now, this is no problem anymore and greatly enhanced the quality of film restaurations.

One you have a restaurated High Definition master, you can easily downscale it to 720x480 (NTSC), 720x576(PAL) or 1920x1080(HDTV) resolution.

Most people here at the forums don´t want a complete restauration. They just want a new transfer from existing film elements. Which means: standard procedure for every DVD movie released nowadays.

The result is that the OOT looks FAR WORSE than most DVD´s made by major studios and even small studios. The non-anamorphic nature of the transfer is not the worst aspect. The worst aspect is that it looks so bad because the quipment which was involved in the restauration is so heavily outdated by now. This affects everything. Ghosting, smearing etc.

Isn´t it a shame that my Flash Gordon DVD, which cost about 7EUR here, looks MUCH better compared to the OOT. It does not look better because they did a heavy restauration on it, it looks better because it was mastered using modern equipment. Equipment which has become more than affordable, even for small studions.
Author
Time
Originally posted by: canofhumdingers
Originally posted by: Vigo
...restaurated...


wow...


wow, what a worthless comment on such a nice post by Vigo....

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

Author
Time
It is definately amazing how far technology has advanced in the last 20 years. Hell, in the last 10 years its amazing. In 1996, DVD was not big at all. VHS was the video format, but 10 years later, VHS is completely dead. DVD is at its peak and hi-def is coming onto the field. It's amazing the video quality we see nowadays. If I went back 10 years ago and showed someone a DVD, they'd probably think they were high or something. But the most shocking thing would be that we would be acheiving it in 10 years.

The new Star Wars DVD's aren't horrible, in fact, I enjoy them a lot and am perfectly satisfied with them. Does that mean they are state of the art? Not even close. We should be getting a brilliant hi-def master with a remastering fit for a film like Star Wars.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
Author
Time
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
It is definately amazing how far technology has advanced in the last 20 years. Hell, in the last 10 years its amazing. In 1996, DVD was not big at all. VHS was the video format, but 10 years later, VHS is completely dead. DVD is at its peak and hi-def is coming onto the field. It's amazing the video quality we see nowadays. If I went back 10 years ago and showed someone a DVD, they'd probably think they were high or something. But the most shocking thing would be that we would be acheiving it in 10 years.


The rise of the DVD format was quite a fenomenon, if you think about it. Now, VHS took a little bit longer to pick up, and there was no other format to replace - there was beta, but that was running along with VHS on the videotape market. Now, I remember back in the late 90s how the DVD section of video stores were kinda like the "porn section", it was a little stand on the corner of the store, hidden, and I remember STARES from customers when I picked up a copy of "Enter the Dragon" on DVD. I mean, VHS was THE format back then, and it didn't seem it was going to fade so quickly, there were so many movies on VHS... And now, 2006, movies are not released on VHS anymore, the format is absolutely dead (except for taping TV shows, so I still have a VCR) - but when TIVO gets a little bit more popular around here, it will be formally deceased... Although I still can find vinyl long play records today...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
Author
Time
Originally posted by: vbangle
Originally posted by: canofhumdingers
Originally posted by: Vigo
...restaurated...


wow...


wow, what a worthless comment on such a nice post by Vigo....


Although I find Vigo to be one of the most eloquent posters here, and a person whom I agree with and admire very much .... his erroneous spelling of one of his most constantly used words kinda bugs me. Ordinarily, it's bad form to correct someone's spelling on the internet, so I haven't mentioned it. And the quote above seems to be mocking his made-up word ... which I love, but hate the incorporation of the misspelled "real" word into it.

It's RESTORATION.

Eatieries are called "restaurants."

"Restauration" is not, as far as I'm aware, a Brit spelling of the word. It's simply and universally "restoration." I'm open to be corrected on this, but I really think Vigo's getting it wrong.



On every other count of everything Vigo writes, he's pretty much getting it right!



.
Author
Time
It's amazing the mileage something as small a typo gets around here.
Author
Time
I guess it's too bad Shimraa isn't posting in this thread. ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

Author
Time
I know many posters here don't speak English as a first language, so I attribute the occasional incorrect spelling to that.

Author
Time
Originally posted by: canofhumdingers
Originally posted by: Vigo
...restaurated...


wow...


Yes, wow. I´m sorry that English is not my first language. I´m sorry that I tend to make mistakes. I´m sorry that sometimes, i mix up German with English spelling (in German it is RESTAURATION). I´m sorry, that RESTAURATION would sound almost identical to the correct RESTORATION, due to the beauty of English spelling and writing. I´m sorry that sometimes, my thoughts are complex, but my english capabilities are lagging behind, especiall if I´m forced to answer quick.

You know what really "wow" is? Learn to speak 3 different languages like myself. Oh wait, you don´t have to. You are probably American, and will most probably never set foot on another continent besides your own. And if you do, the first thing you will do is heading to the next McDonald´s, avoiding exposure to too much foreign culture mixing up your precious little brain.

I´m sorry if I offend anyone, but ignorant posts like this drive me nuts. Asshole!
Author
Time
Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: canofhumdingers
Originally posted by: Vigo
...restaurated...

wow...

You know what really "wow" is? Learn to speak 3 different languages like myself. Oh wait, you don´t have to. You are probably American, and will most probably never set foot on another continent besides your own. And if you do, the first thing you will do is heading to the next McDonald´s, avoiding exposure to too much foreign culture mixing up your precious little brain.

I´m sorry if I offend anyone, but ignorant posts like this drive me nuts.Asshole!
Whoa nelly!

I agree that he probably shouldn't have corrected your spelling, but in turn you decide to insult my country?

I'm an American (I have no idea if canofhumdingers is or not- he may be Canadian, he may be British or Australian....) but I was one of the Americans on this board who came to your defense and still you decide to assume that the one person who offended you is American while none of your defenders are?

Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

....and if you'll notice, even though I'm an ignorant American, I managed to write this post without insulting your homeland.

Author
Time
I'm sorry, but country bashing is fucking dumb. Yes he corrected your typo, but you don't have to insult ones country. I guess in Vigo's mind, we're all fat, lazy and ignorant. We're sorry for gracing you with our presence, Vigo. Edit- Ah hell, I think I figured out George Lucas' problem, this entire time, he's so stubborn. He was born in the USA, that must be it holy hell. We've figured it out, once he steps foot in Germany. He'll love th OOT and the prequals will cease to exist.
Author
Time
Good job Vigo, now we have two ignorant posters. Maybe next time you'll simply point out to the spelling nazi that it's not spelled that way in your country. At least that way you won't make yourself look just as ignorant as the other guy.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
Author
Time
There is truth in jest.

This is a country where kids are getting diabetes, and being fat is considered a "health problem" that we sue fast food companies over. So the remarks really aren't far off. A lot of Americans are fat, lazy, stupid xenophobes who rush to a McD's faster than the needle goes north on a compass. Plus, it was kinda funny. And no one seems to have a problem when Borat does it.

And I've seen worse typos in these parts.
We don't have enough road to get up to 88.
Author
Time
Whoa, how did we get here........ regardless of what land we may call home, we are all Star Wars fans. So lets get back on focus here.