Originally posted by: Cable-X1
So am I what? We're polar opposites of the argument....and your point is?
Originally posted by: Vigo
I agree with all of you except one thing: Lucas DOES NOT have to acknowledge and respect our wishes. He can do pretty much everything he wants with his works. No matter how much the fans will cry and whine here.
Of course he doesn't have to....but why should that stop him. All he has to do is release them properly so that EVERYONE is happy. It's not quantum physics here. Put out the best product of what will satisfy everyone. That would be a fully remastered OOT with all the works and then his SE if that's what he personally prefers. I think what drives a lot of people bonkers is that the solution is so damn simple. Just release every version, George....that's not asking too much, is it?
Sure I underderstand the anger. I am angry myself. But, you know, on the other hand, I am telling to myself "Why should I be angry about this? Why should I let it happen that this person has so much power over me? And why should this anger drive me to insult people, which do not have the same opinion as I have?". I mean, what good does anger do? Nothing. It´s not constructive. The only way to change things is be constructive. This site is the prime example of being constructiveness, namely preservation.
Calm down, dude. You sound like Star Wars is being a drug, and you are the junky on turkey. In the end, Lucas does what he can, whether you prefer to accept it, or not. Call him a bastard, idiot, whatever you feel, it won´t change anything.
Perfectly calm here dude. You better chill, I thinks. A movie that a hell of a lot of people love does not equate a junky.
As long as one can maintain a healthy distance to the things one does love, one is not a junky, you are right. However, I see the problem that a lot of people are enraged, and forget themselves about this issue. I won´t call this a healthy distance.
Stop trying to make me sound melodramatic. You know exactly what I mean when I say what Lucas is doing. There's nothing wrong with popping in the OOT and letting your mind wander back to the time you were a kid and saw it the first time. That sort of thing is rather esoteric and I don't expect everyone to get it, but don't make me look like some wacko about it.
This is not the point I´m trying to make. The point is that I think some people take their passion way too serious, which doesnt do them or other people any good. It makes them blind. And ultimately will prevent any rational thought. If you are a wacko just because of loving the OOT better, I am a wacko, too.
I don't trivialize you, Vigo. Don't trivialize me. And Lucas is a dumb bastard all around and yeah, I know it won't change anything, but am I supposed to roll over and drink the kool-aid. Don't think so....you're welcome to though.
Do you think I trivialize by actually trying to appeal to people´s reason?
It´s neither respect nor disrespect. It´s marketing. Slap the OOT on disc and bundle it with the unsold SE discs from stock. Nothing more.
Go-Mer is at least in one thing right: there are really vicious people here demonizing Lucas. He neither is a demon, nor an angel. He does, what every corporation in the world does: maximize profits. Nothing more. If you cry at him, cry at the whole capitalistic system, because he is just doing what he is allowed to do. Legally, Star Wars does NOT belong to us, that´s the cruel truth.
I believe I acknowledged that it's marketing, but I disagree with the disrespect. I think it is. I point to other releases that have original and special editions in them. ET, the future Blade Runner, Dawn Of The Dead...all these DVD releases have multiple, restored and remastered versions. SW was a hell of a lot bigger than all of those combined. In fact, wouldn't it be good marketing to do the same thing and release all the versions all spiffed up in a nice release? That way you maximize your customer base. Everyone will buy it if it has everything, right? So you see...the marketing excuse can be used both ways. Lucas just doens't like the OOT anymore and it gets treated like shit. That's disrespect.
Ok, so Lucas doesn´t respect us anymore. He probably hates us and he hates the OOT. Of course you can see it this way, perfectly valid, but what does it give to you? Nothing. Unrationalized feelings. Hate.
The alternative is to ignore this, and just analyse it from the marketing POV, from the view of Lucasfilm. I stopped bothering listening to what Lucas said. In the end, all the actions you can observe coming from Lucasfilm are just plain marketing... at its worst! This is the way everything works. This is the reason why he created the SE´s in the first place. This is the reason he surpressed the GOUT, because he thought: "Now since I have done the SE´s, I have to support them by every means possible. I just say the originals don´t exist anymore, because there is not enough market for both versions, and I just want to have a "cleaned up" product palette". And now this is the reason, he slapped the GOUT on this new DVD set, because to clear the stock of unsold, overproduced SE discs. I think, this point of view is much preferrable than just thinking "OH MAN, HE HATES US, HE HATES STAR WARS, HE HATES THIS, HE HATES THAT..."
And please spare us that "cry at the capitalist system" shit.....lame.
Again, just raw feelings. It IS no shit, it´s the truth. The current system, how intellectual property is handled, clearly defines who owns Star Wars. And it is not compatible with the desires OOT fans have.
You both are two extremes: Go-Mer is the Lucas lover, you decided to utterly hate this man for his actions. At least, it´s something to fill out boring evenings, right?
I do not utterly hate the man. I've said that on many occasion. What I don't hide is utter irritation at how moronic this man is. He has the greatest sci-fi/fantasy film series EVER and he treats it like nothing more than a cash cow.
How would you treat it, if it would be one of your very few sources of income? You forget, beyond Star Wars, Lucas hasn´t achieved much more. Yeah, Indiana Jones.... He has to pay a lot of money to keep Lucasfilm going. Star Wars are the most expensive independent films made.
Sure, if there's money to be made, I want him to make it. I'd do the same, but it's just all the bullshit that annoys me. He's going to make MORE changes for the 2007 release?
Yep, because, since these are basically the same movies again, he feels the need to change his product to enhance its appeal to the customers. Again: simple marketing at its worst. The only funny thing is how his fans interpret these actions. "artistic vision"(tm)
He wants people to buy it again??? Will he ever be finished???
No, according to the reasons I gave you.
I'm not saying anyone has to buy it, but it's just the principle. He expects that people will fork over money for his OCD-fueled changes time and time again?
Yep.
The man has got some major issues in his noodle....I just feel the need to speak up about it. Don't translate that as hate to try and dismiss me.
No, but I see that most people, Lucas supporters and critics, can not see the bigger picture.
It kills time on boring evenings, yeah. You got a problem with that?
Nope.
The problem is the following:
- Kurtz may be lying
Don't see any reason why he should. He's out of the big picture anyway. I think he's just defending a film he worked on and has pride in. He doens't like what it's been turned into. I don't blame him and I don't see any reason why he should. He's not getting money for causing any ruckus.
- Lucas may be lying
I don't think Lucas is lying....I think in some warped section of his brain, he believes what he's saying as the truth even if it contradicts what he's said before. Sounds delusional to me...
That is so weak, Gomer. I expect better arguments from you...
Sorry, but so are you. You both are practically the same, only the other way around.
I agree with all of you except one thing: Lucas DOES NOT have to acknowledge and respect our wishes. He can do pretty much everything he wants with his works. No matter how much the fans will cry and whine here.
Of course he doesn't have to....but why should that stop him. All he has to do is release them properly so that EVERYONE is happy. It's not quantum physics here. Put out the best product of what will satisfy everyone. That would be a fully remastered OOT with all the works and then his SE if that's what he personally prefers. I think what drives a lot of people bonkers is that the solution is so damn simple. Just release every version, George....that's not asking too much, is it?
Sure I underderstand the anger. I am angry myself. But, you know, on the other hand, I am telling to myself "Why should I be angry about this? Why should I let it happen that this person has so much power over me? And why should this anger drive me to insult people, which do not have the same opinion as I have?". I mean, what good does anger do? Nothing. It´s not constructive. The only way to change things is be constructive. This site is the prime example of being constructiveness, namely preservation.
Calm down, dude. You sound like Star Wars is being a drug, and you are the junky on turkey. In the end, Lucas does what he can, whether you prefer to accept it, or not. Call him a bastard, idiot, whatever you feel, it won´t change anything.
Perfectly calm here dude. You better chill, I thinks. A movie that a hell of a lot of people love does not equate a junky.
As long as one can maintain a healthy distance to the things one does love, one is not a junky, you are right. However, I see the problem that a lot of people are enraged, and forget themselves about this issue. I won´t call this a healthy distance.
Stop trying to make me sound melodramatic. You know exactly what I mean when I say what Lucas is doing. There's nothing wrong with popping in the OOT and letting your mind wander back to the time you were a kid and saw it the first time. That sort of thing is rather esoteric and I don't expect everyone to get it, but don't make me look like some wacko about it.
This is not the point I´m trying to make. The point is that I think some people take their passion way too serious, which doesnt do them or other people any good. It makes them blind. And ultimately will prevent any rational thought. If you are a wacko just because of loving the OOT better, I am a wacko, too.
I don't trivialize you, Vigo. Don't trivialize me. And Lucas is a dumb bastard all around and yeah, I know it won't change anything, but am I supposed to roll over and drink the kool-aid. Don't think so....you're welcome to though.
Do you think I trivialize by actually trying to appeal to people´s reason?
It´s neither respect nor disrespect. It´s marketing. Slap the OOT on disc and bundle it with the unsold SE discs from stock. Nothing more.
Go-Mer is at least in one thing right: there are really vicious people here demonizing Lucas. He neither is a demon, nor an angel. He does, what every corporation in the world does: maximize profits. Nothing more. If you cry at him, cry at the whole capitalistic system, because he is just doing what he is allowed to do. Legally, Star Wars does NOT belong to us, that´s the cruel truth.
I believe I acknowledged that it's marketing, but I disagree with the disrespect. I think it is. I point to other releases that have original and special editions in them. ET, the future Blade Runner, Dawn Of The Dead...all these DVD releases have multiple, restored and remastered versions. SW was a hell of a lot bigger than all of those combined. In fact, wouldn't it be good marketing to do the same thing and release all the versions all spiffed up in a nice release? That way you maximize your customer base. Everyone will buy it if it has everything, right? So you see...the marketing excuse can be used both ways. Lucas just doens't like the OOT anymore and it gets treated like shit. That's disrespect.
Ok, so Lucas doesn´t respect us anymore. He probably hates us and he hates the OOT. Of course you can see it this way, perfectly valid, but what does it give to you? Nothing. Unrationalized feelings. Hate.
The alternative is to ignore this, and just analyse it from the marketing POV, from the view of Lucasfilm. I stopped bothering listening to what Lucas said. In the end, all the actions you can observe coming from Lucasfilm are just plain marketing... at its worst! This is the way everything works. This is the reason why he created the SE´s in the first place. This is the reason he surpressed the GOUT, because he thought: "Now since I have done the SE´s, I have to support them by every means possible. I just say the originals don´t exist anymore, because there is not enough market for both versions, and I just want to have a "cleaned up" product palette". And now this is the reason, he slapped the GOUT on this new DVD set, because to clear the stock of unsold, overproduced SE discs. I think, this point of view is much preferrable than just thinking "OH MAN, HE HATES US, HE HATES STAR WARS, HE HATES THIS, HE HATES THAT..."
And please spare us that "cry at the capitalist system" shit.....lame.
Again, just raw feelings. It IS no shit, it´s the truth. The current system, how intellectual property is handled, clearly defines who owns Star Wars. And it is not compatible with the desires OOT fans have.
You both are two extremes: Go-Mer is the Lucas lover, you decided to utterly hate this man for his actions. At least, it´s something to fill out boring evenings, right?
I do not utterly hate the man. I've said that on many occasion. What I don't hide is utter irritation at how moronic this man is. He has the greatest sci-fi/fantasy film series EVER and he treats it like nothing more than a cash cow.
How would you treat it, if it would be one of your very few sources of income? You forget, beyond Star Wars, Lucas hasn´t achieved much more. Yeah, Indiana Jones.... He has to pay a lot of money to keep Lucasfilm going. Star Wars are the most expensive independent films made.
Sure, if there's money to be made, I want him to make it. I'd do the same, but it's just all the bullshit that annoys me. He's going to make MORE changes for the 2007 release?
Yep, because, since these are basically the same movies again, he feels the need to change his product to enhance its appeal to the customers. Again: simple marketing at its worst. The only funny thing is how his fans interpret these actions. "artistic vision"(tm)
He wants people to buy it again??? Will he ever be finished???
No, according to the reasons I gave you.
I'm not saying anyone has to buy it, but it's just the principle. He expects that people will fork over money for his OCD-fueled changes time and time again?
Yep.
The man has got some major issues in his noodle....I just feel the need to speak up about it. Don't translate that as hate to try and dismiss me.
No, but I see that most people, Lucas supporters and critics, can not see the bigger picture.
It kills time on boring evenings, yeah. You got a problem with that?
Nope.
The problem is the following:
- Kurtz may be lying
Don't see any reason why he should. He's out of the big picture anyway. I think he's just defending a film he worked on and has pride in. He doens't like what it's been turned into. I don't blame him and I don't see any reason why he should. He's not getting money for causing any ruckus.
- Lucas may be lying
I don't think Lucas is lying....I think in some warped section of his brain, he believes what he's saying as the truth even if it contradicts what he's said before. Sounds delusional to me...
That is so weak, Gomer. I expect better arguments from you...
Sorry, but so are you. You both are practically the same, only the other way around.
So am I what? We're polar opposites of the argument....and your point is?
That you realize it, and step out of this mechanical behaviour.