Originally posted by: Vigo
Argh, this quoting is becoming a mess... Yeah, I'm going to try and cut some of the fat out of this one...

Originally posted by: Vigo
...why did he put the OOT in it in the first place, from this point of view?

Inferior films in shoddy quality. What about his "artistic vision"(tm) ?

Well, having the original versions seemed to be really important to us. Yeah, but what about his artistic vision then?

I see this as two issues. For him, the latest and greatest version he has made is his "artistic vision". The originals are versions that -we- would like to see preserved.

Are you asking why he would release still yet "unfinished" versions in 2004? In that case the reason according to him is that his advisors were telling him that if he waited until he was "ready" there might not be a DVD market to release to anyway. I think that, combined with the daily request from fans to at least release what he has even if it isn't "finished" caused him to reconsider waiting until he was done.

Originally posted by: Vigo
Like I said, if George Lucas does something, which might be a clear hint that he is just fooling around, the die hard fans will do the thinking and arguing for him to cover up his ass.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "just fooling around". You mean if Lucas does something that shows that he doesn't really take any of this seriously, people like me will still come in and defend him? I'm sure you are right. If Lucas really doesn't care about this saga, then I am unable to see that, as a result, I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Originally posted by: Vigo
Honestly, you don’t believe this crap yourself, do you?

Yes, I think Lucas has by and large been pretty honest about all of this. I think that he is just not the best public speaker, and with the way the media tends to present things out of context, he is largely just misunderstood. Glad he has someone like you, who clears everything up for him.

Well the man has brought me a lifetime of joy. Sticking up for him when I think he's being misunderstood is the least I could do in return.

Originally posted by: Vigo

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-TonicI think that art and business can both mutually exist if the artist is also the businessman. Lucas' artistic sensibilities are preserved in the SE version and whatever version is coming next year. Sorry, but this is no art. This is commercially driven rubbish. Popcorn and Hamburger for the senses. Star Wars was never meant to be anything different. It´s space opera. This whole nonsense about his "artistic vision" came up when he tried to justify the changes made to the original movies, and market the new cgi effects in the special edition, to test if the time and technology was right for the prequel trilogy. You were starting ok, but now, this arguments clearly becomes ridiculous. Wait a minute, I asked you why you were trying to preserve something that you considered to be "commercially driven rubbish", and you said that it was really only true of the newer stuff? I think that's getting a little ridiculous. I think it's fairly obvious that the entire saga, from start to finish was meant to be a commercial endeavor. What makes the new stuff any less artistic than the things he did originally?

Originally posted by: Vigo

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
For him to re-release the older versions, that's purely a consumer demand issue for him. If that can't be done without losing money, then he doesn't see the business sense in doing it. Artistically, he didn't want to re-release it at all. What you are basically saying is the following:

- Releasing the old movies is a business decision from Lucas.
- Constantly altering the old trilogy in order to sell the same old movies over and over again is now an "artistic decision"???

Sorry, now you are being REALLY ridiculous. Lucas keeps altering them to satisfy his artistic tastes. The only interest he would have in re-releasing the originals is to meet consumer demand for them.

Originally posted by: Vigo

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic So yeah a lot of people weren't impressed, but that doesn't mean his artistic vision for these films is "wrong" it just means you don't like it. And I never said something different. Of course, he may do whatever he likes to his movies. He may even burn the original negatives, and call this artistic self expression. I only care for the original movies, and judge the decision he makes from this point of view. Who I don’t get is the fans, who are constantly trying to justify his decisions. I mean, shouldn’t a STAR WARS fan be concerned that the original movies are properly preserved for the future? Where is the logic to defend Lucas, whose "artistic vision" is clearly destroying the movies people grew up with? Destroying the original negatives. Preventing public viewings of original 35mm copies of the OOT. I only speak for myself when I say I appreciate the way Lucas is tweaking and to me he is improving them. For me it's not about the special effects as much as it's about the story. To me what he's done not only hasn't harmed the original films, it's actually made them better. He said that if he didn't do the restoration when he did, there would never have been -any- Star Wars. What you call "destroying the original print" I call saving it's life. To me it's not all that big of a deal if Lucas wants to make Greedo shoot first, or if he wants to put Hayden in as the ghost in ROTJ. To me, it still represents the same thing: The good man who was Luke's father.

Originally posted by: Vigo

Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I'm not pointing fingers here, but surely you have to admit there have been a lot of insults sent his way.

Well, so what? What is YOUR concern about this? This guy is a big boy, with loads of money and who doesn’t care about his fanbase. You certainly don’t have to jump for him into the bushes, defending him from everyone who is so mean to him to put him VERBALLY down.

The only reason I really speak out about this is because I think that if we want him to care more about us, we have to be reasonable about it. If all we do is cry out that Lucas is a cold hearted businessman with no artistic intent in the first place, well I don't see why he -should- care more than he has.

Well, I say what I think, and his actions clearly back this theory up. Why should he actually care more, if everyone is rubbing his balls?

If the people who are asking him to make this happen do it in a nice way, he is much more likely to look at our sad puppy dog eyes and cave in. If he sees us all foaming at the mouth and growling like Cujo, then he is more likely to just slam the door shut and say "screw those negative bastards", they can preserve their own O-OT for all I care.Originally posted by: VigoAgain, the misconception that he actually released the OOT to please fans. They did it to clear the inventory and dry up the bootleg market. He said himself that he doesn’t care. Period.

It wasn't "just" to give us what we wanted, but in the end, it was what we asked for.Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The worst he did was not produce the versions everyone wanted to have on DVD.

The worst thing he did was destroying the original negative of the original Star Wars films. For every Star Wars fan, this should be unforgivable.And yet somehow a lot of us do.

Well, this says a lot about the affection these "fans" pretend to have for those films.

Yeah, I love these films so much that sticking a CG Jabba in ANH, or making Greedo shoot first, or putting Hayden into ROTJ wasn't enough to change that.
Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You don't see him putting down all the ways we might have done it differently.

He doesn’t need to, since he is in the position to get his way, no matter what everyone else thinks.Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
He doesn't say that the people who disagree with him are not artistically competent.

Again, he doesn’t need to.

My question is why do we need to do that in reverse? What does that gain for us? What purpose does that serve?To be honest, for me, it serves my purpose of practicising the english language.

And I like discussing with PEOPLE. To challenge my view against other views, and gain a higher state of consciousness. This is my "artistic vision".

I can respect that, it's pretty much why I'm here too. Although I speak english, practice is always good.Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The way I see it, he is stubborn about his vision, but gracious about the diversity of opinions out there.

Yes, of course we can all be so thankful that he so "gracious" about the diversity of opinions. Sorry, this is almost like hearing someone talking, who is not a fan but a member of a cult.That's okay. I feel the same way about people who demonize Lucas.

Well, a demon implies negative emotions towards his fans or other people. I don’t think he has them. I don’t think he has any particular positive emotions towards his fans either. Like I said, Lucasfilm is a company, and clearly acts as such. Maximize profits. Selling the same stuff over and over again most efficiently. Going as far as permanently destroying the original movies. This is no art, this is fast food for the masses.

Wouldn't fast food be more like "your way right away"? If this was just fast food to him he would have released the originals on DVD when DVD first came out. He wouldn't have waited until 2004 to put the classic trilogy on DVD.