Originally posted by: Vigo
That's okay. I feel the same way about people who demonize Lucas. Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I don't deny the business side of Lucas, I just think that his idea of good business is to make the best product he can. I realise the non Anamorphic release isn't the best he could have done. To him the SE version was the best he could do. Then why did he put the OOT in it in the first place, from this point of view?
Inferior films in shoddy quality. What about his "artistic vision"(tm) ? Well, having the original versions seemed to be really important to us.
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The way I see it, he is stubborn about his vision, but gracious about the diversity of opinions out there.
Yes, of course we can all be so thankful that he so "gracious" about the diversity of opinions. Sorry, this is almost like hearing someone talking, who is not a fan but a member of a cult. I don't deny the business side of Lucas, I just think that his idea of good business is to make the best product he can. I realise the non Anamorphic release isn't the best he could have done. To him the SE version was the best he could do. Then why did he put the OOT in it in the first place, from this point of view?
Inferior films in shoddy quality. What about his "artistic vision"(tm) ? Well, having the original versions seemed to be really important to us.Originally posted by: Vigo
My question is why do we need to do that in reverse? What does that gain for us? What purpose does that serve?Originally posted by: VigoOriginally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Obviousy not everyone thinks the new changes were for the better, and legitimately prefer the original verisons. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I do hope that all SW fans can enjoy as much or as little of the saga as they want to, in the format they prefer. I´m glad you approve our taste.
I think everyone's taste is perfectly valid from their own point of view.
He doesn't say that the people who disagree with him are not artistically competant.
Again, he doesn´t need to. Obviousy not everyone thinks the new changes were for the better, and legitimately prefer the original verisons. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I do hope that all SW fans can enjoy as much or as little of the saga as they want to, in the format they prefer. I´m glad you approve our taste.
I think everyone's taste is perfectly valid from their own point of view.Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You don't see him putting down all the ways we might have done it differently.
He doesn´t need to, since he is in the position to get his way, no matter what everyone else thinks.Originally posted by: Go-Mer-TonicOriginally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I just also understand where Lucas is coming from. I don't think it's about disrespecting the people who don't agree with him as much as he is respecting his own vision for it with a determined passion. Yeah, he is respecting his own vision so much, like changing the movies over and over again in each new release, always claiming that these have ALWAYS been his visions. Well I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. I don't think he is really trying to claim that he had the whole vision for the SW saga from the very beginning. I think he means to say that most of the things he did to change the classic trilogy were the result of things he couldn't originally do exactly the way he had hoped he could do it. Also each release has represented his "definative" vision "at the time" I think there was part of him that thought that he might only go so far with it, but then as he went he decided to go even further.
And yet somehow a lot of us do.Originally posted by: VigoI just also understand where Lucas is coming from. I don't think it's about disrespecting the people who don't agree with him as much as he is respecting his own vision for it with a determined passion. Yeah, he is respecting his own vision so much, like changing the movies over and over again in each new release, always claiming that these have ALWAYS been his visions.
Well I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. I don't think he is really trying to claim that he had the whole vision for the SW saga from the very beginning. I think he means to say that most of the things he did to change the classic trilogy were the result of things he couldn't originally do exactly the way he had hoped he could do it. Also each release has represented his "definative" vision "at the time" I think there was part of him that thought that he might only go so far with it, but then as he went he decided to go even further.Originally posted by: Vigo
Honestly, you don´t believe this crap yourself, do you? Yes, I think Lucas has by and large been pretty honest about all of this. I think that he is just not the best public speaker, and with the way the media tends to present things out of context, he is largely just misunderstood.
Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The worst he did was not produce the versions everyone wanted to have on DVD.
The worst thing he did was destroying the original negative of the original Star Wars films. For every Star Wars fan, this should be unforgivable. Honestly, you don´t believe this crap yourself, do you? Yes, I think Lucas has by and large been pretty honest about all of this. I think that he is just not the best public speaker, and with the way the media tends to present things out of context, he is largely just misunderstood.
Originally posted by: Vigo
The only reason I really speak out about this is because I think that if we want him to care more about us, we have to be reasonable about it. If all we do is cry out that Lucas is a cold hearted businessman with no artistic intent in the first place, well I don't see why he -should- care more than he has.Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Nobody could talk him out of making SW in the first place, and a lot of people thought he was crazy to do it in the first place. Why would he suddenly come to the conclusion that his detractors are right now? I think it is a bit selfish to not give a crap about the people who prefer the originals, but I honesty don't see many of those people giving a crap about what he wants either. You are right. With one small little mistake: Star Wars is not art. It´s a franchise, a product. A franchise is supposed to make money. And it only makes money, if it pleases the customers, i.e. the price is right according to the product´s value. Everything else is wishful thinking. You said it yourself, GL won´t be pissing money away for a non-profitable OOT restauration. So i won´t be pissing away my money for him. Simple. I think that art and business can both mutually exist if the artist is also the businessman. Lucas' artistic sensibilities are preserved in the SE version and whatever version is coming next year. For him to re-release the older versions, that's purely a consumer demand issue for him. If that can't be done without losing money, then he doesn't see the business sense in doing it. Artistically, he didn't want to re-release it at all.
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I'm not pointing fingers here, but surely you have to admit there have been a lot of insults sent his way.
Well, so what? What is YOUR concern about this? This guy is a big boy, with loads of money and who doesn´t care about his fanbase. You certainly don´t have to jump for him into the bushes, defending him from everyone who is so mean to him to put him VERBALLY down. Nobody could talk him out of making SW in the first place, and a lot of people thought he was crazy to do it in the first place. Why would he suddenly come to the conclusion that his detractors are right now? I think it is a bit selfish to not give a crap about the people who prefer the originals, but I honesty don't see many of those people giving a crap about what he wants either. You are right. With one small little mistake: Star Wars is not art. It´s a franchise, a product. A franchise is supposed to make money. And it only makes money, if it pleases the customers, i.e. the price is right according to the product´s value. Everything else is wishful thinking. You said it yourself, GL won´t be pissing money away for a non-profitable OOT restauration. So i won´t be pissing away my money for him. Simple.
I think that art and business can both mutually exist if the artist is also the businessman. Lucas' artistic sensibilities are preserved in the SE version and whatever version is coming next year. For him to re-release the older versions, that's purely a consumer demand issue for him. If that can't be done without losing money, then he doesn't see the business sense in doing it. Artistically, he didn't want to re-release it at all.Originally posted by: Vigo
I think what happens is people get attatched to things. I can relate to the way a lot of people fell in love with the originals, and would just prefer to remember them that way. I don't think there is anything wrong with being disappointed in the changes, and I think there is nothing wrong with asking Lucas to reconsider his stance on releasing the originals. The thing is, not everyone cares about who shot first. Not everyone cares about the switch to Hayden Ghost in ROTJ. Some people actually think that's just fine. I for one think that by and large, Lucas hasn't really altered the classic trilogy. I think all the changes are mostly cosmetic, and don't alter the storyline or characters in any signifigant way. So yeah a lot of people weren't impressed, but that doesn't mean his artistic vision for these films is "wrong" it just means you don't like it.Originally posted by: VigoOriginally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I know some of you have no problem with his changes as long as the original is provided along side of it, but by and large there is a lot of crap being flung in Lucas general direction over all of this. While I can relate to the hard feelings over his suppression of the O-OT and now his lackluster presentation of the O-OT, I think that there is a lot of disrespect given to him beyond that, putting down his artistic vision to the point where you might get the idea that SW was great despite Lucas.
Well, if such a lot of disrespect is given to his artistic vision, doesn´t it occur to you that perhaps he might have screwed up the last few years, artistically? (Not monetary, all prequel Star Wars films did very well at the boxoffice). Why are these issues like "Han shoots first!!" so popular? Is everyone an ignorant bastard, who is incapable of seeing Lucas "artistic vision" behind it? I know some of you have no problem with his changes as long as the original is provided along side of it, but by and large there is a lot of crap being flung in Lucas general direction over all of this. While I can relate to the hard feelings over his suppression of the O-OT and now his lackluster presentation of the O-OT, I think that there is a lot of disrespect given to him beyond that, putting down his artistic vision to the point where you might get the idea that SW was great despite Lucas.
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I'm not pointing fingers here, but surely you have to admit there have been a lot of insults sent his way.
Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The worst he did was not produce the versions everyone wanted to have on DVD.
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
You don't see him putting down all the ways we might have done it differently.
He doesn't say that the people who disagree with him are not artistically competant.
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The way I see it, he is stubborn about his vision, but gracious about the diversity of opinions out there.