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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released) — Page 63

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Didn't realize it ought to be duotone. Probably coulda saved myself a lot of work.

Too late now, moving today. What was scanned is what was scanned ...
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What a frustrating review.

My reaction to Arabian Knight reviews is always "Do you want to tell him, or should I?"
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Originally posted by: ocpmovie
What a frustrating review.

My reaction to Arabian Knight reviews is always "Do you want to tell him, or should I?"


David Boulet is writing one for DVD File... did he ever contact you?
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Hmm...Looks like I'll be skipping this official release, and aiming instead for the unofficial laserdisc transfer. Stupid Miramax.
“The tragedy of your times, my young friends, is that you may get exactly what you want.”
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The Weinstein Company, actually. (But the Weinsteins were running Miramax when the 2005 disc came out, and Miramax was a semi-autonomous unit when the Weinsteins ran it, so I guess they're partly responsible for the last disc, too...)
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Well, i converted the disc to an IPOD compatible mp4 file, looks pretty good.
File size is approx 200meg. I used NERO Recode, 2 pass, highest quality
settings. Now i can get some friends hooked via my video ipod. ;-)

Win
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The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut on Google Video

I did some modifications since I'm hoping to link to it on a few DVD review sites.

I have the Miramax cut (Letterboxed), Richard Williams and the Thief Who Never Gave Up, A Christmas Carol, and I Drew Roger Rabbit converted, but they're not uploaded yet.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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OgOggilby - what version of the Recobbled Cut did you upload to Google Video?

I'm watching the stream now and am noticing differences from Mark II (missing music cues, Tack is first seen as Williams intended and not in the color shot Garrett used).
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I'm just watching the beginning and I think it's a mix of the workprint and the Recobbled Cut... the lack of music certainly makes those first scenes with the Thief and Tack (before the ZigZag entrance) a lot less effective. Even boring, I'd say. I think that music added a lot.

For the most part, I do like Ogg's cut somewhat better as it tends to stay closer to Williams' version, but the lack of music in those beginning scenes probably wasn't a good idea, since most reviewers will decide whether or not they like the film by how fun to watch those first scenes are.
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut on Google Video

I did some modifications since I'm hoping to link to it on a few DVD review sites.

I have the Miramax cut (Letterboxed), Richard Williams and the Thief Who Never Gave Up, A Christmas Carol, and I Drew Roger Rabbit converted, but they're not uploaded yet.


Wow. I never noticed how compressed Google Videos were until I saw that. The film is pretty much unwatchable.

Anyway, I like those changes so far. Did you incorporate your flyover redo or did you use Garret's?
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Sorry, I should have uploaded both (I have the regular Mark II at hand along with this quickie re-edit). The problem is that I needed something up to show a few people and I don't want them to get the wrong idea about a few things in the RC. The main purpose of re-doing some stuff was to take out a few more Calvert inventions so there's more differences visible. I wish I knew DVDTalk had a reviewer for the disc since I would have gotten him to see the RC or workprint first, as well as knowing what should and shouldn't be in the movie. The last thing we need are more reviews that give it a bad rating without background on the movie. The DVDTalk guy didn't even know it was panned and scanned from 2.35:1.

Also, the video is a LOT better if you download the mp4 version to your computer (the Ipod/PSP option).
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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You might want to tell potential reviewers to download the iPod/PSP version, then, because the image quality on the regular google video is indeed horrible (much worse than on YouTube).

I do like your version better for the most part... a fair amount of minor annoyances that I had with the Recobbled Cut Mk. II are corrected here (this is not to belittle the many, many things that Garret did right in his version). The Tack/YumYum scene, for example, as well as the scene where King Nod is explaining the mission (it seems to flow more smoothly). Lots of little things. There are some exceptions:
-1st scenes with Tack & Cobbler (as mentioned before - far less effective without music)
-Zigzag inside the One-Eye tent (not sure what it was exactly, but the music didn't seem quite as smooth - may have been my imagination. Minor detail.)
-Zigzag saying "the greatest wizard has to know, etc" at the end (I think the animation wasn't bad in this case and not different from the storyboard, so it could've been kept. Also, it cut to ZigZag in the pit too soon after he fell into the hole - it didn't seem like he had time to actually fall)
-lack of... something in the war machine/thief scene (I'm not sure as I never watched the Williams workprint all the way through, but isn't there something where ZigZag conjures a dragon to fight Tack? Since the whole Calvert fight was cut out, perhaps that could've been added back in to balance things out)
-after the thief steals the film, the sounds stops for some reason so we don't hear him run away. I'm not entirely sure that this is a negative, to be fair - was it intentional?

There are two things that I don't like about either version, one being the musical choices for some of the comedic thief scenes (as I said in more detail in a recent post a little way back). I think I've found the perfect music to accompany the scenes with the thief and the polo ponies games, though - on my CD of Scheherazade (by the Berlin Philharmonic, recorded in 1967), it's about 6 minutes into movement 2 (movement 2 consists of "lento" - "andantino" - "allegro molto" - "vivace scherzando" - "moderato assai" - "allegro molto ed animato". It's either "allegro molto" or "vivace scherzando", I guess). I'd like to try adding it to see if it does indeed fit... are there any free programs that I could use?

The other is MeeMee saying "ugh, maybe something died". Quite frankly, the shot makes NO sense at all, since she was cut out of the previous scene (which I agree with). I don't understand why you would cut her out partially, but not completely. A viewer who hasn't seen the film suddenly sees someone answer YumYum, but has no idea who it is. The voice is different, and the way she inclines her head makes it clear that she is replying to someone, so it's pretty clear that she's not YumYum.
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby


Also, the video is a LOT better if you download the mp4 version to your computer (the Ipod/PSP option).


It's not working. It loads for a bit then stops.
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Originally posted by: Spock
Originally posted by: OgOggilby


Also, the video is a LOT better if you download the mp4 version to your computer (the Ipod/PSP option).


It's not working. It loads for a bit then stops.

It worked for me. :\
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
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Originally posted by: Esn
You might want to tell potential reviewers to download the iPod/PSP version, then, because the image quality on the regular google video is indeed horrible (much worse than on YouTube).

I do like your version better for the most part... a fair amount of minor annoyances that I had with the Recobbled Cut Mk. II are corrected here (this is not to belittle the many, many things that Garret did right in his version). The Tack/YumYum scene, for example, as well as the scene where King Nod is explaining the mission (it seems to flow more smoothly). Lots of little things. There are some exceptions:
-1st scenes with Tack & Cobbler (as mentioned before - far less effective without music)
-Zigzag inside the One-Eye tent (not sure what it was exactly, but the music didn't seem quite as smooth - may have been my imagination. Minor detail.)
-Zigzag saying "the greatest wizard has to know, etc" at the end (I think the animation wasn't bad in this case and not different from the storyboard, so it could've been kept. Also, it cut to ZigZag in the pit too soon after he fell into the hole - it didn't seem like he had time to actually fall)
-lack of... something in the war machine/thief scene (I'm not sure as I never watched the Williams workprint all the way through, but isn't there something where ZigZag conjures a dragon to fight Tack? Since the whole Calvert fight was cut out, perhaps that could've been added back in to balance things out)
-after the thief steals the film, the sounds stops for some reason so we don't hear him run away. I'm not entirely sure that this is a negative, to be fair - was it intentional?

There are two things that I don't like about either version, one being the musical choices for some of the comedic thief scenes (as I said in more detail in a recent post a little way back). I think I've found the perfect music to accompany the scenes with the thief and the polo ponies games, though - on my CD of Scheherazade (by the Berlin Philharmonic, recorded in 1967), it's about 6 minutes into movement 2 (movement 2 consists of "lento" - "andantino" - "allegro molto" - "vivace scherzando" - "moderato assai" - "allegro molto ed animato". It's either "allegro molto" or "vivace scherzando", I guess). I'd like to try adding it to see if it does indeed fit... are there any free programs that I could use?

The other is MeeMee saying "ugh, maybe something died". Quite frankly, the shot makes NO sense at all, since she was cut out of the previous scene (which I agree with). I don't understand why you would cut her out partially, but not completely. A viewer who hasn't seen the film suddenly sees someone answer YumYum, but has no idea who it is. The voice is different, and the way she inclines her head makes it clear that she is replying to someone, so it's pretty clear that she's not YumYum.


Well, I just wanted to see how many little differences I could find. Anything I changed just corresponded with the workprint... but it's just a temporary until I've shown it to some people. Then, I'll put up the regular Mark II version. I don't want some of these reviewers to mistake some of the interpolated animation as part of the actual footage, nor a handful of sequences that were supposed to be left out.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Sorry if I sounded critical... as I said, I actually kinda like your version better for the most part (if nothing else, it's interesting to see how the workprint was different). I was just making some observations about things that I noticed - I'm not expecting someone to fix them. I'd do it myself if I knew how to, actually (and so... are there any programs I could use?)

Something I noticed... how come in this video, the bricks on the tower with the three balls are an earthy colour instead of orange (as in the Recobbled Cut and the released versions), and the pencil footage is easier to make out (in the Google video the background is red and it flickers)?
For the latest "Thief and the Cobbler" news, go HERE (and go to the last page)
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For Esn:

Since the Mee-Mee "Maybe something died" was in the workprint, which of course dates from after Mee-Mee being removed from the film, it was obviously intended to be in Williams' final cut. The reason it's such a discrepancy is because it's still a pencil test of Tissa David's animation from c. 1977-80, at a time in which Mee-Mee was still in the film, and the scene. In the workprint, this late-70s animation was featured as a placeholder; new animation would obviously have been done to replace all of those shots, to remove Mee-Mee, redesign Yum-Yum, or replace Mee-Mee with Yum-Yum.

Since Hilary Pritchard's voices for Mee-Mee and Yum-Yum were so similar, the original dialogue was obviously edited down (or re-recorded? The mouth movements sometimes seem off...) to turn it from a scene with Mee-Mee and Yum-Yum into a scene with just Yum-Yum. The "Maybe something died" would have, in a finished version, been uttered by a reanimated Yum-Yum (with correct design).

In fact, in Fred Calvert's workprint (and in the Recobbled Cut), the shot of Yum-Yum holding her nose after smelling the Thief is a pencil test of a reanimated (by Williams' crew) version (obviously done / filmed after the Williams workprint we have, but before his "forced departure"), in which Yum-Yum is drawn with her finalized design, and Mee-Mee is absolutely gone. (For those who have only seen the Recobbled Cut, the workprint instead has Tissa David's late-70s animation in this spot, with the earlier Yum-Yum design, and Mee-Mee in the bath next to her.)

Oh, if only we could find the last Williams workprint (the one from which Calvert got all those new pencil tests and finished shots for *his* workprint)...it would clear a lot of this stuff up...
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I'm watching the Google Video version, and I just noticed something. I know how Garrett has talked about some Calvert shots having been done by Williams' London team (sans Williams), and I think I found another one: The "consult the Brigand's Handbook" shot. It's definitely Williams pencils (which we see in partially unfinished pencil-test form in the workprint), like some of the other London Calvert shots. Unfortunately, unlike the Thief looking at the bubbles, or the Thief stealing the film, it's obviously on twos. (Just compare the background characters to the corresponding pencil-test footage in the workprint.) Even so, it runs circles around the Los Angeles animation (especially the L.A. animation's Korean ink and paint work). And note in particular the lighting and cinematography, two big reasons why I think it's the London team.

Anyway, here's a comparison I did between that shot, and the next shot we see of the Brigands after the scene with the caravan:
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/7876/twofacesofcalvertnd1.jpg
I think the image speaks for itself...
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For some reason, nearly all Williams photography has softer focus than Calvert's stuff. Notice how the handful of Williams shots in the Zig-Zag tower scene are darker and softer than the Calvert material.
"I was a perfect idiot to listen to you!"
"Listen here, there ain't nothing in this world that's perfect!"

- from The Bank Dick
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Originally posted by: OgOggilby
For some reason, nearly all Williams photography has softer focus than Calvert's stuff. Notice how the handful of Williams shots in the Zig-Zag tower scene are darker and softer than the Calvert material.

In some way, the London team still had knowledge of cinematography in doing those scenes perfectly, whereas the L.A. guys were more point-and-shoot (their segments often had characters that were too bright on the screen as opposed to the soft focus and darker tones the London crew had, their characters don't stand out like how the L.A./Korean ones do).

Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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You know, it just occurred to me: Wang Film Production is based in Taiwan, not Korea. In addition, "Thai Wang," which was Wang's Thailand-based satellite studio, is specifically mentioned in the credits.

AFAIK, the really cruddy ink and paint stuff for Calvert was done in Thailand, not Korea (or even Taiwan)...
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Originally posted by: TServo2049
You know, it just occurred to me: Wang Film Production is based in Taiwan, not Korea. In addition, "Thai Wang," which was Wang's Thailand-based satellite studio, is specifically mentioned in the credits.

AFAIK, the really cruddy ink and paint stuff for Calvert was done in Thailand, not Korea (or even Taiwan)...

That's correct! I personally don't know where in the word we associated the Calvert production as having been sent to Korea in the first place, as the credits do mention the Thailand studio otherwise, but perhaps we're just rather too used to where most US cartoons get sent to these days and often don't realize there's other Asian studios this stuff could be sent to (China, Taiwan, The Philippines, etc.). Wang Film has been involved in animating many US cartoons for many decades, often also under the name "Cuckoos Nest Studios".

Oh look, here's their webpage!
Wang Film Productions Co., Ltd.

You learn new things everyday!
Yours truly,
Chris Sobieniak

For more mindless entertainment....
My LiveJournal Page
The Online Video Depository - For all your daily video needs!
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I have thankfully never seen the Miramax cut until now. It's almost like some kind of sick, twisted joke...except it's not a joke. Jonathan Winters' running commentary (I cannot call it anything else) feels more like a poor attempt at either an MST3K-style riff job, or Bob Saget's stupid voiceovers on America's Funniest Home Videos.

It'd be morbidly funny if someone did a joke parody version of The Gold Rush, or the General, or some other classic silent comedy, with a Winters-style voiceover for Charlie Chaplin, or Buster Keaton, or whoever, spouting stupid jokes and random pop culture references...it'd be no more an insult than this...

Oh, am I glad I've watched the workprint and/or Recobbled Cut about a dozen plus times before ever seeing this train wreck...