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Here's my stance — Page 8

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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I don't think Lucas will make it to 91 years old, but even if he did want to change them further, I'd still want to see them.

And by the way, I have been collecting all of his versions that he has officially released, so if he ever happens to put howard the duck into one of the versions, I'll just go back to my 2004 DVD if need be.


So in other words, you just admitted that it is possible for him to do something to the movies that you wouldn't like and wouldn't accept as canon?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Of course. There are some things about the 2004 DVD set for example that I wasn't entirely pleased with. Mostly of an auditory nature.

Also, I really miss the part in TPM where Watto waves his hands in the air and says "Sebulba" when the race is about to start. It's still there on the 2nd disc of the DVD, but I really wish that was still in the main picture.

That said, I have a Japanese Laserdisc that maintains the original theatrical cut, so I'm not totally out in the cold or anything.

As far as not accepting something as canon, that was never up to me in the first place. This is Lucas party and he gets to say what is and isn't canon in the universe that he originally created.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic


As far as not accepting something as cannon, that was never up to me in the first place. This is Lucas party and he gets to say what is and isn't canon in the universe that he originally created.


But remember, your focus determines your reality. Fans can choose themselves what is canon to them and what isn't. I choose to pretend the prequels don't exist. They are not canon for me, personally. All that is canon is three great films from the golden age of moviemaking. Your focus determines your reality.


And you're statement might be the most contradictory statement I've ever read. Lucas saying what is canon in the universe he originally created? If he adds stuff in later, it is not what was canon in the universe originally created.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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It's a work of fiction and if it evolves for better continuity, then I don't have any problem with it.

I agree that each one of us gets to pick and choose what we want from the Star Wars universe. I for example don't really get much into the EU. I like Shadows of the Empire, but didn't quite like Splinter of the Mind's eye all that much.

But "Canon", is something Lucas gets to decide because it's his universe.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
It's a work of fiction and if it evolves for better continuity, then I don't have any problem with it.

I agree that each one of us gets to pick and choose what we want from the Star Wars universe. I for example don't really get much into the EU. I like Shadows of the Empire, but didn't quite like Splinter of the Mind's eye all that much.

But "Canon", is something Lucas gets to decide because it's his universe.


I take it you've never heard of the "Holocron", that...how shall I put these, levels of continuity that has been generally accepted (at least, I thought it was) by Lucasfilm?
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I'm not sure what you mean, you mean like the separation between official cannon and EU canon? Or the hierarchy of canon where the films are at the top followed by the scripts followed by the novels followed by "official" EU followed by "non official" EU?
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I'm not sure what you mean, you mean like the separation between official cannon and EU canon? Or the hierarchy of canon where the films are at the top followed by the scripts folloed by the novels followed by "official" EU followed by "non official" EU?


That would be the one. The films are canon, followed by (if I remember this correctly), novelizations and radio works, then EU material, then non-EU material like board games and RPG D&D-style games, and then things like Star Wars: Infinities. In a sense, everything in the SW universe is canon, just to a certain degree. It was unofficially adopted (my memory is a little bad) by fans and Lucas Licensing to keep track of what is absolute truth in the SW universe. I'm trying to remember this off-hnd, so I could be wrong on the specifics.
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Yeah I think that hierarchy makes sense. You know if it's not contradicted by the higher rungs, then it can be considered "canon".

To me, what I happen to enjoy about Star Wars is my own personal canon, as in I only really get the stuff I like, and ignore the stuff I don't.

At the end of the day we are talking about a fictional universe, so I'm not even all that worried about what "really" happened, because none of it "really" did.

I love the films the most, and have enjoyed much of the video game EU stuff, but it's not like I'm worried about Jedi Knight "fitting in" with the movies.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic


As far as not accepting something as cannon, that was never up to me in the first place. This is Lucas party and he gets to say what is and isn't canon in the universe that he originally created.


But remember, your focus determines your reality. Fans can choose themselves what is canon to them and what isn't. I choose to pretend the prequels don't exist. They are not canon for me, personally. All that is canon is three great films from the golden age of moviemaking. Your focus determines your reality.


And you're statement might be the most contradictory statement I've ever read. Lucas saying what is canon in the universe he originally created? If he adds stuff in later, it is not what was canon in the universe originally created.


Don't forget the Holiday Special.

He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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I don't think it's possible to forget the holiday special.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Agreed and I consider it to be an inspiration for George Lucas' most recent star wars films.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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I think the holiday special is required viewing. It literally lives up to the hype. When you watch it you can't turn away. It's like each scene is topping the next. You see Bea Arthur singing goodnight to the cantina aliens and you think to yourself: Wow, nothing could be worse than this. Then you get to the 20 minute sequence where the Wookies are all talking to each other without subtitles. Then you get to the part where the Empire breaks into their home and destroys the kid's bantha toy.

By the time you see Carrie Fisher singing "the life day song" to the main theme of Star Wars, you're just numb.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic


But "Canon", is something Lucas gets to decide because it's his universe.


Well then change your signature. I can focus on one thing and it determines my reality. I can focus soley on the OT and that is my "canon." Focus determines reality.

Star Wars only belongs to Lucas in legal rights. The films belong to the fans, and they can choose what is canon. What is generally accepted as canon is the films and some EU stuff, because majority of fans accept that. Canon, of course, can be used in numerous ways. There is Lucas's canon, which is his focus, his reality. There is my canon, my focus, my reality. There is yours, which is the "saga." There is little Timmy's, which is "MOMMY BUY ME JAR JAR" and that's all there is that's canon in his head.

Either you agree or you don't. If you disagree, then please, make a new signature, like "I Heart Lucas" or something to that extent.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mie
But "Canon", is something Lucas gets to decide because it's his universe.


Canon - can-on -n;

Standards accepted as axiomatic (true without having to be proven) and universally binding in a field of study or art.

Star Wars has become entirely too contaminated to have canon. Too many people have added to and altered the story over the years - particularly Lucas - for it to have any one accepted standard. Canon doesn't change just because the author goes through a divorce, has an argument with someone, becomes wealthy, has children, has writer's block, gets remarried, has an idea for a marketing tie-in, gets some new computer software, or any other of a myriad of reasons why they might want to change something 20 years later and then lie about it.

Star Trek has canon because there have been groups of people collaborating and providing a series of checks and balances when they decide storylines and films. They stay true to principals laid out in years past.

Star Wars films, on the other hand, are controlled by a single individual - power unchecked - who seems to change his mind and his stories every time something happens to him personally or whenever he gets a good idea for a toy, or can't come up with a story arc, etc.


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Originally posted by: Weezer12
Plus A New Hope is kinda a lame title.


And "Awakening of the Force" is any better? LOL.


Absolutely. While I wouldn't go so far as Darth Richard to describe my suggested alternate title as "kick ass", it is definitely better than "ANH", and here's why I think that:

Imagine watching a trailer for Star Wars in 1976 or early '77. Not one of the teasers, but one that showed scenes from the film. At the conclusion, the title "Awakening of the Force" (standalone, not "Star Wars: Awakening of the Force") appears with the announcer saying it in his best announcer-y voice. One would probably say something along the lines of "Well that's pretty cool". Not because the title is spectacular or anything, but because the movie looked cool, and the title didn't seem odd based on what was just witnessed. Now, imagine seeing the same trailer with the punchline "A New Hope". I could see my reaction being, "Huh?? The movie looks cool, but what's with the title?" I've seen many trailers where I've had such a reaction to the films' titles.

Of course, the movie is really called "Star Wars", as I'm contantly reminding my kids, so this is all just an exercise in "what if"....

Pink Floyd -- First in Space

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This is a work of fiction. Every single bit of it is a "what if".
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
This is a work of fiction. Every single bit of it is a "what if".


No, my post was not a work of fiction. I actually typed it. You see, when I said "all" I was referring to the words/ideas/situations which I had just described.

Go find another post to misinterpret.

Pink Floyd -- First in Space

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I was meaning to say that all of Star Wars is fiction.

Wether the first film Lucas made was Star Wars or A New Hope, it's all a big "what if".
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Wesyeed
Just ignore the stupidity.

Hey, I rather like this response to you-know-who!

Pink Floyd -- First in Space

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You must do what you feel is right of course.
Your focus determines your reality.
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I kinda like the title "Star Wars." It has a certain ring to it, doncha think? Way better than the retarded "A New Hope" and far less confusing than the postulated "An Awakening of the Force." Huh? to that last one. Rolleyes to the first. Wow to "Star Wars."

Maybe that's why they called the movie "Star Wars."



By the way, that movie, "Star Wars" - that's the entirety of my canon. It cracks me up to hear people complain about inconsistencies and story conflicts between the O.T. and the P.T., when George started to work those in right after the first movie - - with crap like Darth Vader being Lukes' father, which completely conflicts with the truth of Star Wars, and later - since he hadn't got the juevenile Dickens out his system, I guess - Leia (propounced differently than in Star Wars, btw) being Luke's sister, which completely conflicts with the truth of Star Wars.


How people can suddenly be "shocked" that conflicting story points came up in the 16 years between the O.T. and P.T. is absurd.







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I agree that the "inconsistencies" were introduced during the classic trilogy.

But to call any part of an entirely fictional story the "truth"?

Are you kidding me?
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
"Star Wars" - that's the entirety of my canon.
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+1

It's all I own*. It's all I'll ever watch. The stuff that came after has been slowly fading away for the last ten years (the last time I saw Empire). Although, I did see the first of the prequels.

That piece of crap started to fade from memory as I was walking across the parking lot afterwards.

* - I have the Definitive laserdiscs but have no way to watch them. They'll be on eBay soon.

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Obi, I totally know where you're coming from on the "Star Wars" vs "A New Hope" issue. I once heard it argued that if Empire has one flaw, it's the "Episode V" that's always been at the begginning of the movie. If Empire and Jedi just had titles and not episode #'s, the original trilogy could at least stand totally on it's own, but for better or for worse the sequels have always said V and VI respectively.

This is why I could really go either way on the "Star Wars" vs "ANH" issue. Seeing Star Wars as it actually was in '77 would be amazing, but that really cuts out the prequels if I wanted to do a true saga marathon (PT and the O-OT). On the other hand, letting the absence of an Episode number and subtitle slide isn't all that hard even if I were to watch all 6 films.

Like I said, people didn't get anywhere near as pissed with the addition of "ANH" as they did with all the SE changes. It is an alteration, yes, but from what I hear there were many other alterations made between the original theatrical releases of the movies and their SE releases. That is why, as far as I'm concerned, the O-OT is any release of the movies before '97, and there are many.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
But to call any part of an entirely fictional story the "truth"? Are you kidding me?

Nope, not kidding, Go-Mer. Don't get hung up on the word truth, because if you take it too literally ... nothing will end up being true.

You know very well that I'm writing about truths as expressed quite clearly in Star Wars, the film never to have worked on the level it did if those things had been exposed as untrue in the movie. Leia was a love-interest in the classic mold. Luke's motivation was, in part, classicly based on the betrayal and murder of his father. Make Obi-wan Kenobi a LIAR in Star Wars, and the movie loses a ton of appeal. Make Leia NOT the hero's love interest, and the movie loses ton of appeal.

What Lucas did years after Star Wars to those characters would not have been done in the original if it was to be the mega-hit it became. Cowardly is what I would call that, if he were not simply making the story up as he went along. Since he has consistently demonstated he can't keep a story straight that he makes up as he goes along, I choose to recognize only the original story ... and all of the stuff that directly conflicts with it, whether done by Lucas at LFL or some homoerotic fan fiction writer in his mom's garage, is all EU to me.



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