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So... what are we gonna do with these ideas of ours? We actually gonna use them somewhere?
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What did the Prequel Trilogy need? — Page 9
So... what are we gonna do with these ideas of ours? We actually gonna use them somewhere?
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I watched the OOT the other day (on my new S-VHS VCR - yay!) and it struck me that ESB has the best script of all three films. I was also struck by how much fault must be laid at ROTJ's door. The whole Anakin Skywalker = Darth Vader thing is only in ROTJ, Luke's sister = Leia is only in ROTJ, the musical numbers (the song that was replaced by 'Jedi Rocks' is actually pretty ropey to begin with) and burp jokes started in ROTJ. Off the back of that, I decided that I won't alter much, if anything, of ESB in my novelisation. It will be ROTJ that receives the most re-writing.
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Also, about collaboration, I would be interested in playing a part in your re-write, auraloffalwaffle, if only as a "creative consultant." I think our ideas on the saga mesh well and as I've said I've already tried this once before. So if you need someone for in-depth discussion and feedback, I'd be willing to fill that role.
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Do you think a collaboration would be more productive?
Do you think a collaboration would be more productive?
At the very least, it would cause our individual ideas to mutate into something heretofore unknown, even by we the authors.
The only conflict I see so far is that I'm interested in keeping the O-OT as-is, while you seem to want to revise it. But, ideas are made of the most elastic rubber in the universe--able to bend to any proportion, and maybe that might make them better.
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Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
... ideas are made of the most elastic rubber in the universe ...
Well said, sir!... ideas are made of the most elastic rubber in the universe ...
I'm glad that we all want to invest in this idea so that it actually happens, rather than just fizzling out!
I had a new idea, which I'm quite proud of actually, and I wondered what you guys would think of it:
Darth Vader becomes a Sith Lord after having been an apprentice Jedi. I got to thinking - what would the other Sith Lords think of him? Maybe it would be interesting to show Darth Vader as a lonely figure who has turned his back on the Jedi order only to be ostracised by the Sith Lords because he's an ex-Jedi. Maybe that could be a reason for Vader being stuck out in the Outer Rim dealing with the Rebels, rather than with the Emperor at the heart of power. It would provide a good basis for Vader becoming interested in Luke and eventually deciding to defy the Emperor. It also puts an interesting complexion on Tarkin's line: "You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion".
Any thoughts?
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Also, about collaboration, I would be interested in playing a part in your re-write, auraloffalwaffle, if only as a "creative consultant." I think our ideas on the saga mesh well and as I've said I've already tried this once before. So if you need someone for in-depth discussion and feedback, I'd be willing to fill that role.
To tell the truth, that's largely how I've been approaching this thread. I regard it as an opportunity for us all to act as creative consultants on each other's projects. I certainly value the feedback I've been getting here very highly. Also, about collaboration, I would be interested in playing a part in your re-write, auraloffalwaffle, if only as a "creative consultant." I think our ideas on the saga mesh well and as I've said I've already tried this once before. So if you need someone for in-depth discussion and feedback, I'd be willing to fill that role.
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Now, here's an idea I've toyed with: What if Obi-Wan WASN'T lying when he said Darth Vader killed Anakin? In other words... what if Darth and Anakin were actually two seperate people?
A weird idea I know, but just turn it over in your heads for a bit.
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Read it from the "Prologue" up. It's a feasible take on the Anakin/Vader as separate entities idea.
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In any event, a clone Anakin would make everything said in Star Wars true. He would at once be both Darth Vader and the good friend of Ben Kenobi who was betrayed and murdered by Darth Vader. None of this mamby-pamby stuff about being destroyed by Vader simply by becoming Vader. Lot of interesting plot points could result, with the audience in the dark about identities when best for the story, and aware of who-is-who when that suits the story. Which one comes under the thumb of the Emperor? Which one duels with Ben Kenobi? Which one sleeps with Padme Amidala and sires twins?
It would itself be in the classic sci-fi mold of the evil twin (employed to great effect by Star Trek, Farscape, dozens of others). Best of all, there could be a mirror twist ending to the prequels where the audience finds out Darth Vader is NOT Luke's father.
Of course, then the series could never be watched 1 through 6 (thank goodness), but it would be nice to have a big a kick in the guts surprise in the prequel trilogy as there was in the first, and the handy gimmick of the Clone Wars provides the obvious way to have the second surprise be a neat reverse of the first.
And, heheh, Ben Kenobi would go back to being the truthteller he was always meant to be.
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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Which one sleeps with Padme Amidala and sires twins?
Which one sleeps with Padme Amidala and sires twins?
Well, on that note... why can't the "twins" have two different mothers?
At the same time one Anakin is sleeping with Padme, the other is sleeping with someone else... and the two just happen to be born at the same time. This would explain why Anakin is aware of Luke's identity but not Leia's.
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The idea of the original and clone Anakins siring a child each by two different women is an interesting spin to put on things! You could follow that train of thought to say that Luke might be the only person who senses his sibling. Ben and everyone else could be oblivious to the existence of another child. The mother could go to the other side of the galaxy before the child is born and then they stay hidden until Luke tracks them down. But what would happen to Luke's mother for him to end up with no memory of her and living with Owen and Beru?
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Oh! That gives me another excellent idea: What if Owen Lars was a Jedi once?
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Also, I see where you're going with the Willow reference. Would Luke's mother be sneaking him out just before she's executed, then?
I was thinking about Jedi names the other day. I like the idea of apprentices taking a new name when they become Jedi Knights, meaning that Ben Kenobi took the Jedi name Obi-Wan when he became a Jedi Knight. When he went into hiding he stopped using his Jedi name.
This lead to the thought that, if I proceed with my idea that Anakin Skywalker becomes a Jedi Knight before he is murdered by Darth Vader, then Anakin would take a Jedi name. I also think that 'Darth' would be Vader's Sith name and therefore would have had a different first name up until he became a Sith Lord. I do not like the idea of all Sith taking 'Darth' as their first name.
I came up with Anakin taking the name Jai-Yun Skywalker and Ben's apprentice being called Kol Vader.
I further like the idea of Luke taking Jai-Yun as his Jedi name, in memory of his father(?).
Any thoughts? Anybody think those name ideas are crap?
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Well, if the aim is to provide a backstory for ANH, don't you think Owen being a Jedi would jar with the way Ben speaks about him?
Now that I think about it, you're right.
Also, I see where you're going with the Willow reference. Would Luke's mother be sneaking him out just before she's executed, then?
Well, if the aim is to provide a backstory for ANH, don't you think Owen being a Jedi would jar with the way Ben speaks about him?
Now that I think about it, you're right.
Also, I see where you're going with the Willow reference. Would Luke's mother be sneaking him out just before she's executed, then?
Possibly. Mostly what I was getting at was that Willow's plot involved an evil queen searching for a baby that she knew would destroy her. You could easily apply the same idea to Star Wars.
As for the names thing... well, I've said a bazillion times that the names in Star Wars have always been a particular peeve of mine, so sorry to say, I'm not really supportive of the idea.
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JamesEightBitStar, would you prefer to have all SW characters named with familiar western names, rather than made-up stuff like 'Obi-Wan' and 'Han' and so on?
I like the idea of Anakin taking a Jedi name of some kind and then have Luke take the same name when he becomes a Jedi. It fits with Luke's attitude towards the image of his father and the main driving force behind his decision to become a Jedi in the first place.
So, we have one vote for Jai-Yun Skywalker and no votes for Kol Vader.
Commander, don't you think it would be worthwhile to see similar traditions observed in the Sith Order as in the Jedi Order? I think it is an interesting aspect to bring out in the story that there are many things that link the Jedi and Sith, representing, as they do, two sides of the same coin. I take it that we both agree that all Sith taking the name 'Darth Such-and-such' is a lazy one? I thought that was very crap in Luca$h's PT. If 'Darth' is Vader's Sith name, it adds edge to Ben's use of it and not his birth name during their final duel in ANH, don't you think?
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Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
JamesEightBitStar, would you prefer to have all SW characters named with familiar western names, rather than made-up stuff like 'Obi-Wan' and 'Han' and so on?
JamesEightBitStar, would you prefer to have all SW characters named with familiar western names, rather than made-up stuff like 'Obi-Wan' and 'Han' and so on?
What I mean is, in the OT you had characters with weird, but more natural, fantasy-evoking names like "Luke Skywalker" and "Han Solo" and "Leia Organa." Even "Obi-Wan Kenobi" is a bit more traditional. Then we have the Expanded Universe, where suddenly we have characters whose names don't sound natural at all and sound like they're just trying to be as unusual as possible, such as Quigon Jinn, Jar Jar Binks... and I'm sure I could come up with hundreds more if I looked through Wikipedia. I've never really liked this trend towards "nonsense" names that the EU showed.
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Originally posted by: Commander Courage
The way I see it, if we're doing away with the concept of "Darth" being a Sith title, it shouldn't be a personalized Sith title, either ... this is one area where I think a direct parallel isn't necessary. I dunno, I still like the idea of the Sith taking new names when they become a Sith Lord. On the other hand, maybe taking the title of 'Lord' is change enough? I'll keep thinking...Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
Even "Obi-Wan Kenobi" is a bit more traditional ... I've never really liked this trend towards "nonsense" names that the EU showed.
I dunno about "Obi-Wan Kenobi" and "Han Solo" sounding natural - I wonder if that's because they have become familiar names, rather than sounding natural to start with. As for the nonsense names of the EU, I think I object to it most when the name is intentionally or, even worse, unintentionally funny. Jar Jar Binks is pretty bad but, I have to say, I think Mace Windu is one of the worst. Sounds like some kind of cleaning product for windows. As for Count Dooku and General Grievous, I think those are some of the laziest villain names in cinema!The way I see it, if we're doing away with the concept of "Darth" being a Sith title, it shouldn't be a personalized Sith title, either ... this is one area where I think a direct parallel isn't necessary. I dunno, I still like the idea of the Sith taking new names when they become a Sith Lord. On the other hand, maybe taking the title of 'Lord' is change enough? I'll keep thinking...Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
Even "Obi-Wan Kenobi" is a bit more traditional ... I've never really liked this trend towards "nonsense" names that the EU showed.
I think some new names are inevitable and making them sound "otherworldly" can be a positive thing, particularly for non-human characters. The idea of "Jai-Yun Skywalker" stems from thinking along far eastern lines, to maintain the similarity of the Jedi to far eastern traditions.
I'm actually starting to think of an overall concept for the saga of identity. Changing one's name is only part of that. Add to that the cloning issues, issues of parenthood and kinship and issues of right and wrong and you've got a lot of good stuff to get your teeth into!
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Just immediately, I thought that was such a cool possibility. Who would get frozen? And what's more, this person could be the "other" that Yoda mentioned in Empire Strikes Back! (Honestly, even IF Leia is Luke's sister, there's no way she could be the "other" hope Yoda mentioned).
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Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
In another topic, Go-Mer said he had once heard a rumor about a character getting frozen in the prequel trilogy, and then getting thawed out in the sequel.
In another topic, Go-Mer said he had once heard a rumor about a character getting frozen in the prequel trilogy, and then getting thawed out in the sequel.
Yes, IIRC, that came from a RotJ-era interview about future Star Wars movies. Lucas said the sequels would be about "a character frozen in Star Wars III, and their adventures." Maybe someone else knows the exact context.
In this thread we've already discussed Han being frozen for the 20 year span between Episode VI and VII. That's similar to the plotpoint you brought up.
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