Originally posted by: garethxxgod
But Jedi expand their horizons all the time. Just because a Midiclorian count says a Jedi has x amount of pull with the Force doesn't mean that that will stay that way forever or they will only get to a certain point of being able to manipulate the force. I like to believe that Jedi are only limited by how much they are willing to learn. Surely the nature of learning techniques and mastery of the force is not limited to your Midiclorian count, it's just a counter to even determine if a certain person even has the ability with the Force. If the force didn't have any ties to nature and was just a mystical energy force that just happened to appear out of nowhere, woudn't it effect everything? Wouldn't everyone be Force Sensitive?
The fact that nature surrounds it, penetrates it, makes life grow should indicate that SOMETHING has to manipulate the force and connect those who can hear the will of the force with the world around him. You could almost say that in a way the Midiclorians are like a disease and will only effect those who have certain parentage but like Anakin there is always that anomoly. Like the world the way some people are just born different. I mean how do we determine where disease come from? People study it right? I mean where does disease come from in our real world? Someone had to discover this intangible nothingness down to a science or atleast something that you can see within the blood stream or life being of that person. The Midiclorian count is taking something that is attached to a mystified ancient order and understanding how "the universe binds it together". Like most mysteries we are given the how, but never the why.
Now the Midiclorian use in the first film was only to help demonstrate how powerful with the Force Anakin really could become, nothing more really. It helps determine that he IS the Chosen One. You must see it (sorry had to throw that in there). I know the Chosen One Prophecy is pretty much looked down upon by those who don't really like the Prequels or even buy that part of the story but again that's really the only reason the Midiclorian count was used in the film. Obviously we disagree which is fine, but I'd like to hear your thoughs....and please be constructive.....I'm not going to be like a "typical gusher" and say you are wrong or anything you have to say doesn't have merit. Believe me with just the one line I atleast had to think about my response and how it made sense to myself. Take it easy.
Originally posted by: Wesyeed
It makes jedi potential quantifiable. It's basically going against everything yoda said in ESB "size matter not"
why can't people fuoking see this?
Typical Gomer PT-gush response in 3... 2... 1...
Originally posted by: garethxxgod
call me a slob if you will, but I'm with Peter Griffin.....I just did not care much for the Godfather films.
I haven't seen Dr. Strangelove but my brother says it's highly overrated. Kubrick has been hit and miss with me, I like Clockwork Orange and The Shining but I hate 2001: A Space Oddessy well....since those are the only movies of his I've seen I guess I shouldn't really comment.
I know I'm really late for this discussion also, but correct me if this has already been stated. Wasn't the use of Midiclorians a way of determining how well a Jedi could use the force? I have to ask, how would they have determined how one was powerful in the force without an example? Would they have just "known"? Would it have been an instinctual thing? Midiclorians was one of those things I never really bothered about and never knew it was such a problem till I heard people complaining about it on the net, however even if not completely accurate wouldn't that be a better way to get an approximation of ones abilities with the Force? I mean "feeling" one is powerful is one thing, but it still doesn't let you KNOW how powerful they are. That to me doesn't really take away from the mystism of the Jedi Knights.
call me a slob if you will, but I'm with Peter Griffin.....I just did not care much for the Godfather films.
I haven't seen Dr. Strangelove but my brother says it's highly overrated. Kubrick has been hit and miss with me, I like Clockwork Orange and The Shining but I hate 2001: A Space Oddessy well....since those are the only movies of his I've seen I guess I shouldn't really comment.
I know I'm really late for this discussion also, but correct me if this has already been stated. Wasn't the use of Midiclorians a way of determining how well a Jedi could use the force? I have to ask, how would they have determined how one was powerful in the force without an example? Would they have just "known"? Would it have been an instinctual thing? Midiclorians was one of those things I never really bothered about and never knew it was such a problem till I heard people complaining about it on the net, however even if not completely accurate wouldn't that be a better way to get an approximation of ones abilities with the Force? I mean "feeling" one is powerful is one thing, but it still doesn't let you KNOW how powerful they are. That to me doesn't really take away from the mystism of the Jedi Knights.
It makes jedi potential quantifiable. It's basically going against everything yoda said in ESB "size matter not"
why can't people fuoking see this?
Typical Gomer PT-gush response in 3... 2... 1...
But Jedi expand their horizons all the time. Just because a Midiclorian count says a Jedi has x amount of pull with the Force doesn't mean that that will stay that way forever or they will only get to a certain point of being able to manipulate the force. I like to believe that Jedi are only limited by how much they are willing to learn. Surely the nature of learning techniques and mastery of the force is not limited to your Midiclorian count, it's just a counter to even determine if a certain person even has the ability with the Force. If the force didn't have any ties to nature and was just a mystical energy force that just happened to appear out of nowhere, woudn't it effect everything? Wouldn't everyone be Force Sensitive?
The fact that nature surrounds it, penetrates it, makes life grow should indicate that SOMETHING has to manipulate the force and connect those who can hear the will of the force with the world around him. You could almost say that in a way the Midiclorians are like a disease and will only effect those who have certain parentage but like Anakin there is always that anomoly. Like the world the way some people are just born different. I mean how do we determine where disease come from? People study it right? I mean where does disease come from in our real world? Someone had to discover this intangible nothingness down to a science or atleast something that you can see within the blood stream or life being of that person. The Midiclorian count is taking something that is attached to a mystified ancient order and understanding how "the universe binds it together". Like most mysteries we are given the how, but never the why.
Now the Midiclorian use in the first film was only to help demonstrate how powerful with the Force Anakin really could become, nothing more really. It helps determine that he IS the Chosen One. You must see it (sorry had to throw that in there). I know the Chosen One Prophecy is pretty much looked down upon by those who don't really like the Prequels or even buy that part of the story but again that's really the only reason the Midiclorian count was used in the film. Obviously we disagree which is fine, but I'd like to hear your thoughs....and please be constructive.....I'm not going to be like a "typical gusher" and say you are wrong or anything you have to say doesn't have merit. Believe me with just the one line I atleast had to think about my response and how it made sense to myself. Take it easy.
It's the internet, we're all assholes who want to tear each other's digital heads off, so you can keep your take it easy to yourself.
Yeah yeah, I know what a mcguffin is. I know why it was put in there and took up valuable screen time to spoonfeed what they were and I know exactly why tiptup's bored with this....because the question really is why were Midichlorians necessary? They had no later impact on the rest of the movies besides a brief mention. They easily could have and should have been left out. The original intention was to have palpatine reveal that he created Anakin through the force, but it was kind of glossed over. Ok, I understand you still think any jedi can work extra hard and become super powerful, but when you watch the TPM movie, that's not what it's telling you. It's telling you that you are only as good as what that number says on the midi-meter. And that whole idea behind them contradicts what Yoda believes in ESB about one's power with the force being un-hindered by 'crude matter' if they truly believe in it. The force is strong with him, would have sufficed once again. We don't want to confuse the audience with a lot of babbling about microscopic beings that can talk to you, and just make them wonder why the rebells haven't found a few jedi babies with a midi-meter and taught them to use the force etc.
I'm trying to make sense out of the paragraph about making nature grow and mysteries and intangible nothingness being scientifically explained, but it just is a difficult one to understand. You could run around in circles all day with that whole idea, i suppose. I would ask why did this need to be explained? What was really gained besides new questions? Are dark side midichlorians more powerful than light side midichlorians? Why are they symbionts with all lifeforms? what do they take from their host? Why do midis allow the force to be used for evil purposes? What creates high midi counts in certain people? Why do they exist? How do midis control the force? Why can't the force talk to people directly? Is Obi-wan talking to Luke's midichlorians in ANH before Luke hears it? Can a midi level 400 beat a midi level 600? Where do midi-babies come from if jedi aren't allowed to have children? Just fall out of the sky I guess. If you got a blood transfusion from a jedi... etc. the list goes on and on...
Anyway bottom line for me is in better hands than Lucas' midichlorians might have worked fine. It's not a terrible concept. Ever see Naruto? It scientifically explains the control of mystical energies much better than this. Basically it extends the idea of how we can biological use energy in our bodies, no microscopic alien mutant shit involved, just certain people have the ability to control chakra energy fields (like ki which is like the force) and special family bloodlines have unique bioligical traits that can do some unique things with chakra energy. No heavy handed blatant christ parallel either, just good drama. I never bought into the idea of ripping off the bible giving something more meaning. The show's focus is very interesting in how it focuses not on a character being granted his great powers from birth putting him ahead of the rest but on self determination being a significant factor in how powerful you can become with your abilities. It is basically everything the PT should have been, showing us the downfal of a good character who's lust for power and revenge destroys him... good stuff.
The way the midi thing is just thrown in there quickly in tpm like a throw away explanation that has no serious affect on the story doesn't work for me personally. Like sifo dyas. What the hell was that all about? Just use a fake name or whatever. The kaminoans won't care. It seems like an unnecessary convolution that could easily be avoided. You tell me jedi can expand their horizon and i say, "I wish they still could." The midis don't really add anything but that idea of quantifying force potential as you claim. "Now the Midiclorian use in the first film was only to help demonstrate how powerful with the Force Anakin really could become, nothing more really" My point simiply is that measuring potential is antithetic to Yoda's teachings to luke as well just being unnecessary to the story overall anyway. Strength in the force or force sensitivity is fine with me... the midi idea just seems like a brain fart that needed to be questioned before production began on tpm.
If you read GL's original ideas for star wars he compares the force power Luke, obiwan and vader have to Ki energy from stories in Japan I believe. If their powers were meant to be explained with science then I'm sure they would have been long ago but for three whole movies, they weren't. It's pretty much exactly like Ki power, just a mystical energy force explained through action more than words or a microscope. It was even called an ancient religion in the first film to show how unconventional and rare belief in such a thing as mystical energy fields was at the time... further indicated by han solo of course with his disbelief in it. Surely that guy who was choked knows if you have enough midis you can do some neat tricks doesn't he... but instead he consider's vader just a weird magician of some kind who's power is inferior next to the power of technology. Vader disagrees and chokes him of course. Anyway comparitively, Ki powas is what the force is like and anybody and everybody has the ability to use ki, no matter your ki-dichlorian count. It's more relatable that way than to say only certain people can use ki, though like in real life, some people are just naturally gifted with certain talents. I'm not exactly fully knowledgable about the details but I know for a fact that that was what the force was based on, and other similar religious beliefs.
So now you're basically telling me that Jedi are mutants. Like x-men. hmmmm... next step in evolution? Well that's fine for you, I don't really care, I'm not one to pester someone with my point of view unprovoked. You're actually more civil than those I'm used to dealing with in online discussion... well, The force power to me is as enigmatic as the spirit we all claim to possess. You can't open yourself up and see the spirit or even soul, right? But why do some believe that humans have a spirt or soul if we can't pull out a microscope and find it? Like many mysteries in life, it all comes down to faith in the end. That's what I believe anwyay... the force inherently was more based on belief than quantifiable data. It was a refreshing concept to me in that most sci fi I was familiar with tried to explain every little thing. Star wars re-enforced the idea of having faith in your abilities, letting go of relying on techno doo hickies, and achieviing something just because you believe you can...
Star wars was a very different galaxy far far away until 1999... Mutant jedi huh... heh sure, magneto and xavier and wolverine are jedi. Yoda didn't have enough midichlorians to defeat the emperor. Size Matters. Obi-wan had more midis, that's why he beat darth maul. "Master Yoda, you can't die." "Many midichlorians do I have, but not that many..." And my favorite, "Use the midichlorians, Luke."wow that came out longer than I expected, sorry.
Another gomer gush in 3... 2... 1...