Originally posted by: Mike O
There are things that you like about Jackson's versions?
Of course! I thought they were great movies! I even loved many of the changes when they perfectly upheld the spirit of the books (which was often rare unfortunately).
THX stated that the movies captured the spirit of the books well, but I don’t believe that’s true. There were far too many additions that had absolutely nothing to do with the books to ever say that. Concepts that didn’t even exist in the slightest way until Jackson stuck them in. I can’t forgive that. He took up valuable time that could have been used for better content that was actually in the books.
No, she was most likely a Maiar. The same type of being as Sauron, Gandalf, Bombadil, Shelob, and the balrogs. You can sort of think about Maiar as spiritually powerful beings in Tolkien’s universe. Demigods or angels.
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
The elves at Helm's Deep, I think, were basically a way of evening the odds. The idea that 300 men, half of whom were too old or young to effectively weild a sword, could hold off ten thousand orcs strains suspension of disbelief. I'd rather Jackson make book purists irate than lose the audience on something more farfetched than inspiring. Helm's Deep is not Thermopolae, and the people of Rohan are not Spartans.
There are things that you like about Jackson's versions?
Of course! I thought they were great movies! I even loved many of the changes when they perfectly upheld the spirit of the books (which was often rare unfortunately).
THX stated that the movies captured the spirit of the books well, but I don’t believe that’s true. There were far too many additions that had absolutely nothing to do with the books to ever say that. Concepts that didn’t even exist in the slightest way until Jackson stuck them in. I can’t forgive that. He took up valuable time that could have been used for better content that was actually in the books.
Originally posted by: Mike O
He wanted to do it because he likes mindless action and because he had the elf actors on hand and wanted to give them more screen time.
Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Quick question of the story: Was Goldberry supposed to be a She-Ent? She seemed to fit Treebeard's description...
The lack of Bombadil awesomeness.
Him I can live without, and in any case it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he'd have to go for time. He scares me more than anything in Mordor
.
My mentioning of Bombadil was mostly a joke. I loved the section about him in the book. It was so surreal and hallucinational. But, I never believed that anyone, including myself, could ever fit that part of the story into a two hour movie that would already be trying to cram everything from the two largest of the six books in.
I will debate that with you, but I think along the same lines in terms of the Elves at Helm's Deep. I suppose how radical it is depends on what one thinks of the scene. I do think that it goes along with Tolkien's theme of the races uniting against evil, I'm just unsure why Jacksone wanted to do it.
Him I can live without, and in any case it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he'd have to go for time. He scares me more than anything in Mordor
. My mentioning of Bombadil was mostly a joke. I loved the section about him in the book. It was so surreal and hallucinational. But, I never believed that anyone, including myself, could ever fit that part of the story into a two hour movie that would already be trying to cram everything from the two largest of the six books in.
Originally posted by: Mike O
Wow, I’m having a Beavis & Butthead moment here.
Originally posted by: Mike O
Mythology Changes that didn't live up to the spirit of what Tolkien envisioned (like Elves at Helms Deep).
Elijah Wood being gay.
Wood is gay?
Wood is gay?
Wow, I’m having a Beavis & Butthead moment here.
Originally posted by: Mike O
Mythology Changes that didn't live up to the spirit of what Tolkien envisioned (like Elves at Helms Deep).
I will debate that with you, but I think along the same lines in terms of the Elves at Helm's Deep. I suppose how radical it is depends on what one thinks of the scene. I do think that it goes along with Tolkien's theme of the races uniting against evil, I'm just unsure why Jacksone wanted to do it.
He wanted to do it because he likes mindless action and because he had the elf actors on hand and wanted to give them more screen time.
Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Quick question of the story: Was Goldberry supposed to be a She-Ent? She seemed to fit Treebeard's description...
No, she was most likely a Maiar. The same type of being as Sauron, Gandalf, Bombadil, Shelob, and the balrogs. You can sort of think about Maiar as spiritually powerful beings in Tolkien’s universe. Demigods or angels.
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
The elves at Helm's Deep, I think, were basically a way of evening the odds. The idea that 300 men, half of whom were too old or young to effectively weild a sword, could hold off ten thousand orcs strains suspension of disbelief. I'd rather Jackson make book purists irate than lose the audience on something more farfetched than inspiring. Helm's Deep is not Thermopolae, and the people of Rohan are not Spartans.
Good Lord. Where on earth does that stupid idea keep coming from?
Tolkien is not that stupid. According to the books, the men of Rohan went out to war with “more than a thousand” men (young and old) on horses. They meant to battle Isengard in the open and on horseback. It wasn’t until news arrived of a massive force that Gandalf told them to ride to Helm’s Deep. Then, later, scouts arrived that gave an accurate estimate of the enemy as being “many times as great” as what they left with. That would make the enemy army’s size between 6-9 thousand I would guess. Meanwhile, the people of the Westfold Vale (the valley below Helm’s Deep) had been preparing Helm’s Deep to withstand a Siege and enough fighting men were left behind to add another thousand to the defense (some who had seen “too many winters” or “too few”). Also, the Hornburg and its defending wall were somewhat larger in the book. So, total, that was well over 2,000 men defending at Helm’s Deep, according to the book.
If you want to tactically criticize something, do so with that scene that Jackson invented to depict the Orc’s attacking Osgiliath. Those noisy orc paddles were seriously able to successfully sneak past any of Faramir’s veteran rangers?! That was a totally unrealistic surprise attack (Jackson has a simple mind). Oh, and hiding behind a pillar is strategy? Uhg.