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What do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? a general discussion thread — Page 6

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CO,

I'm not refuting what you're saying. What I'm saying is that because the Jedi only know of this power, it seems reasonable that Anakin would return as he once was...the Jedi we and his commrades knew. The moral of Anakin's arc, I feel, isn't diminshed by choosing one Anakin over another. He's still Anakin. But to take your place, along side other Jedi in the netherworld of the Force, I think it's reasonable to see Anakin as he once was....
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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If he was really worried about that, he wouldn't have given us the 06 release. It may not be the best quality but the O-OT is on there, and it's still more watchable than previous home video releases.

He could have just as easily not released it at all.

As for future generations carrying on the Star Wars torch after we have all moved on. I really don't think they will be worried about the O-OT. It's because we have a sentimental attachment to them that many of us prefer them.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Mike

"For how long? How long until three of the most important films in history deteriorate away into nothing because their creator dislikes them? What about their influence and the people who's lives they touched? The filmmakers they inspired? Sooner or later, the tapes and LD will deteriorate. Then what? Lucas effectively 1984ed his films."

This was what the Limited Editions were for....if you really want to preserve history.....

Listen, Lucas has stated in interviews that he went to Kersh before he made any changes to the Episode V. Why else do you think Kersh showed up in the commentary? But, make no mistake, Lucas owns it all. Kersh, I'm sure, contractually gave up that right to have any say so with Episode V.

As for Kurtz, he's just a bomb thrower. What has he done since 1980 that's worth anything? He rides the coattails of Star Wars since he was let go...only to undermine Lucas. And for what? To make people think he was the real creative force behind Star Wars? Please. He desires credit but not the credit he's clamouring for.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike

"For how long? How long until three of the most important films in history deteriorate away into nothing because their creator dislikes them? What about their influence and the people who's lives they touched? The filmmakers they inspired? Sooner or later, the tapes and LD will deteriorate. Then what? Lucas effectively 1984ed his films."

This was what the Limited Editions were for....if you really want to preserve history.....

Again, for how long will these LD master sources release last? There are a short term solution to a long term problem. The Limited Editions should have solved the problem. If they were decent release, we would be having this discussion. But they weren't. You're acting like the limited editions solve the problem when they just patch it. Again, I'm not against Lucas or his vision. I just want a copy of the OOT that I can project onto a screen in perefect quality. That's all. That's it. The end. After that, I don't care. But until then, I think that the criticisms are legitimate.

To make people think he was the real creative force behind Star Wars?


He was one of them.

What has he done since 1980 that's worth anything?


Produced SW and ESB? That counts as something. Does that mean that his opinions are more imporant than GL's? No. But it means that he deserves some say.

As long as we can agree that it is imortant to fight for a proper OOT DVD and HD release, then this bickering is pointless .

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Mike,

I hear you but, more than likely, you're not going to get them. And if you do, I'm still sure that there will still be some bitchin' and moanin' from the fanbase in some form or another. Not saying you but I'm sure Lucas will miss something (not purposefully), even if they are in pristine, high quality transfers, and it'll continue on and on.

He can't satisfy the whole damn universe.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
As for Kurtz, he's just a bomb thrower. What has he done since 1980 that's worth anything?
Gary Kurtz produced The Dark Crystal and Return To Oz, two of my favourite fantasy movies of all time.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Mike,

He was a producer. It would be different if he was the one who brought Lucas in as a hired hand to produce this set of films he created and financially backed. He didn't. He's there to make sure Lucas has everything he needs to create his vision. That's all a producer is there for.

With Episode V, the budget, under Kurtz's watch, got out of hand and Lucas let him go because of it. Budgets go out of hand all the time in films and sometimes they do in fact make the difference. That doesn't change the fact that Kurtz went over budget. You've read the stories about how "cheap" Lucas when it comes to his money in projects. He's not going to spend a cent more than what's neccessary for a film.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I hear you but, more than likely, you're not going to get them. And if you do, I'm still sure that there will still be some bitchin' and moanin' from the fanbase in some form or another. Not saying you but I'm sure Lucas will miss something (not purposefully), even if they are in pristine, high quality transfers, and it'll continue on and on.

He can't satisfy the whole damn universe.


We'll get them, because Lucas will want the money. Or maybe it will be after Lucas passes away. There is a fine line between satifying absolutely everybody and meeting industry standards. He's the one who made so many versions, so its his fault.

He can satify the majority of people with a release of both versions in high quality. And he will. It's just a question of when. As long as you are with us in the desire for proper OOT DVDs, nothing else matters.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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aural,

Those two films came on the heels of Episode V. It's 2006. What has he done, besides throw Lucas under the bus during the time of the Prequels?
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Mike,

I'm only for high quality transfers of the theatrical versions so the bitchin and the accussing of Lucas as being the antichrist, can stop because it's gotten ridiculous at this point. The guy does what he thinks is right, with his money, and he's the anitchrist of Star Wars and cinema....and yet, without the guy, cinema would still be in the dark ages, if you continue to follow the bean counters and suits that have run the industry into the groudn.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I'm only for high quality transfers of the theatrical versions so the bitchin and the accussing of Lucas as being the antichrist, can stop because it's gotten ridiculous at this point. The guy does what he thinks is right, with his money, and it's the anitchrist of Star Wars and cinema....and yet, without the guy, cinema would still be in the dark ages, if you continue to follow the bean counters and suits that run the industry now...


Cinema would have progresed without Lucas, but I completely agree that his importance to the art for as a whole is impossible to measure. I just want the OOT in high quality. That's it. That puts us at an impass where we can agree to disagree about the man. As long as you want the release and are with us in our battle for them, then nothing else matters.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Shaw having hair and his limbs doesn't mean anything. ObiWan is also not cut in half, or naked. "The good part" of Anakin notion doesn't fly with me. He's not Sybil, he's not Dr. jekyll. There aren't "parts". He's just Anakin. He's not reverting back to a former personality, he's the same guy, just continuing FORWARD without being a Sith asshole.
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Mike,

I hope you and the rest of the fanbase really get them one day. I won't be joining you but I hope you do so some can go back to enjoying Star Wars again...no matter what form.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

I hope you and the rest of the fanbase really get them one day. I won't be joining you but I hope you do so some can go back to enjoying Star Wars again...no matter what form.


Fair enough. Then I guess that we will have agree to disagree. As long as I get the high-quality OOT, it doesn't matter. Until I do, the battle for it will continue. The end. I guess we're pretty much done. Thanks for your input. You've made good points.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Mike,

Not a problem.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
Shaw having hair and his limbs doesn't mean anything. ObiWan is also not cut in half, or naked. "The good part" of Anakin notion doesn't fly with me. He's not Sybil, he's not Dr. jekyll. There aren't "parts". He's just Anakin. He's not reverting back to a former personality, he's the same guy, just continuing FORWARD without being a Sith asshole.
Shaw having hair and limbs makes him somehow different from the guy we see in the unmasking scene. Either he's been given his limbs and hair back, or he was supposed to look like he did before he ended up needing the suit to survive. The way Lucas changed it makes me think the original intention was the latter. He had two distinct personalities. One who gave with no thought of reward, and one who took with no worry of return. It's the same guy, but he was once a good guy, and then became an agent of evil. I'm just saying that to me Hayden represents the personality he had before he became evil.

You say he's the same guy only he's no longer a Sith lord, but then where did his limbs and hair come from if he didn't go back to how he was before he lost that stuff?

I don't see why you have to get so angry about how I feel about it.

Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
... accussing of Lucas as being the antichrist ... Eh?!Originally posted by: Jumpman
... and yet, without the guy, cinema would still be in the dark ages ...
Eh?!!! Luca$h isn't the sole motivating force behind the progression of cinematic art, you know. In fact, his impact on the worldwide film industry is fairly slight compared to the role you ascribe him.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
Mike,

Not a problem.


Thanks. I apologize if I jumped on you. Is just that that's how much the OOT means to me, and that why I want to save it so badly and why I get so passionate about it. Still, I guess that at this point, I just have to wait and hope that I get my DVDs sooner rather than later. But I apologize for geting snippy about it.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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aural,

From a technological standpoint, his contribution is quite significant. Pixar. Advancements in visual and special effects. Digital editing. Digital photography (not the only one pushing it but he's the figurehead). the THX standard. Digital projection (again not the only one pushing it but the figurehead).

The guy has pushed the medium forward. I'm not saying we wouldn't have advanced in cinema and that he's the only one doing it.

I'm saying, without him, we might be a few years behind from where we are now...
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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Gomer, old bean, I wasn't calling you an asshole, I said "sith asshole". The sith are assholes. To me.
When Yoda speaks about "immortality", to me that suggests continuing forward, with your identity intact. Don't you like the notion of these 2 old guys having a beer in the afterlife?
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I don't see why you have to get so angry about how I feel about it.
I don't think he was getting angry with you, relax.

I guess, for you Go-Mer-Tonic, this ties in with the idea that Obi-Wan and Yoda disappear before they die, therefore there was no chance that Obi-Wan would appear cut in half, as Vader's sabre never touched him, correct?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: Jumpman
I'm saying, without him, we might be a few years behind from where we are now...
Yeah, a few years . Maybe. Not the "dark ages". I don't think I'd put him forward as a figurehead or pioneer of digital photography, that had been going on for quite a while before he took it up. Digital projection, ditto.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Mike,

You didn't get snippy. I understand your position and many others like you. I'm just cut from a different cloth because, while I grew up with Star Wars, it didn't hold the significants to me until around '96. I didn't see A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back during their intial release(s). I did see Return of the Jedi in the theatre. I grew up with the Original Trilogy on VHS but I didn't know the ends and outs of the entire process until I got to college and majored in film...

It's just my philosophy on film has been shaped mainly by him and a few others of his generation. And for me, his thought processes on his Original Trilogy just make alot of sense to me. I try to see both sides when it comes to criticism of film.
Twisted by the Dark Side, young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader.

-Yoda; Episode III Revenge of the Sith.
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I guess that's where you and I differ in our opinions of film. I find film to be representative of a moment in time. It represents what the cast and crew were able to bring together to that movie at that time. Going back 20 years later and changing that is like going into your diary 20 years later with a bottle of White-Out and a shiny new pen.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Oh okay, it did seem a little odd that you would call me an asshole at the end of that thought. My mistake.

Yeah the way I see it, Yoda and Obi-Wan gave themselves to the Force before they actually died. Obi-Wan was gone before Vader's blade passed through his empty cloak, and Yoda (albeit on his death bed) gave himself to the Force before he actually expired.

The clothing thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I think we can agree that Lucas isn't going to have a nude Alec Guinnes show up in a barrel or something. Anakin's cloths don't match what he wore before, but I really think they are going to replace the whole body for the box set next year.

Just like the 97 Jabba and Greedo shooting first were just "rough drafts" for what he did in the 2004, I think he will further tweak the Anakin appearance at the end to reflect his actual outfit from the prequels.
Your focus determines your reality.