Originally posted by: Number20

Originally posted by: Coov
I finally got around to reading... LOL!

Originally posted by: zombie84
“and the highestly religious people--come from rural areas, areas which are not at all as eductaed as the urban areas.”

“Conversely, most atheists can be found in metropolitan areas, areas which are more educated than the rural counterparts. Thus, in areas where education is the lowest, supernatural belief is the highest.”

“But, preportionally, atheists are much more intelligent than religious people.”

“Religion tends to completely collapse under factual and logical scrutiny.”

“I am not trying to belittle anyone”

I have a real problem when you say that Christians are a bunch of superstitious, uneducated people, and that everyone who 'knows better' are atheists.

As for the statements that science, specificially evolution, is superior than faith in God because science can 'prove' evolution, the big bang, etc. I say that it takes just as much faith if not more to believe in evolution than creation. Ultimately, there is no real proof of the big bang, or no explination whatsoever in where the stuff came from that exploded in the bang. Its just accepted that since it doesn't involve God, it must be what 'really happened'.

I never said all religious people are idiotic simpletons and that all atheists are geniuses. I made an explicit point that many theists are also quite brilliant and intelligent people. But statistically, atheists are smarter. Thats not my personal opinion, just remember. Most atheists are located in metropolitan areas, which are the same areas where most doctors, lawyers and scientists can be found, and where most universities are located; the majority of religious people come from rural areas, which are statistically very uneducated by comparison. Thus, as education increases, theistic belief decreases. Once again, this is not a personal opinion of mine. Your problems are not with me but with reality.

As for "superior scientific faith"--i never said such a thing; you are putting words in my mouth or completely misunderstanding me because i actually said the complete opposite. Science does not involve faith, if we are to take it in the same meaning as it applies to theistic belief--belief in the impossible, absurd, improbable and unproven without a shred of evidence. That is faith, and it is the antithesis of the scientific model, for anyone here who actually knows it, which, i am guessing, is not many or else stupid statements like this would not being made. And yes, there is an abundance of proof for the Big Bang, etc. People didn't just pull that out of their ass. Maybe a little research would enlighten you.

As for the Big Bang--science proposes no solid answer to "what came before." The most accurate answer actually is "there was no before," since time did not come into existence before the universe did, because time is simply an aspect of the material reality of the universe. But, to put it in simplistic terms, science says "we don't know what was 'before' the big bang." Nothing about that is "snobby" and "superior" and "arrogant" as some defensive religious people accuse--we don't know and have such little frame of reference as to where the singularity of the big bang originated from that it is impossible to even begin to theorize beyond wild speculation. The religious man of course says "i know beyond a shadow of a doubt," which is pretty absurd if you ask me.

Coov-- I am glad that religion has given you such wonderful meaning and experience in your life. I think this is the main draw that keeps people coming back to religion, and this actually demonstrates the fundamental reason for its continued existance--emotional experience. Because that is what you are describing. You are attached to the emotional experience that christianity has given you. But what of the scientific or historical points are raised? Not once have you even acknowledged them, let alone debated them. Aren't you interested in the historical origins of your faith from a non-dogmatic, objective point of view? Apparently not, it seems. But that itself is an important point. There is so much evidence to show how religion came to be--in fact for many, people don't even need historical analysis, simply logical, rational reasoning; this is why people don't believe in Zeus or Osiris or Mithras anymore. But many people don't apply these same basic critical reasoning skills to their own faith, because they simply don't want to, and its because of emotional attachment. Religion can bring with it emotional experiences, and it creates a genuine feeling of community and completeness. What people don't realise is that you don't need "religion" in the traditional sense of the word, to do this. Music concerts and movie theater experiences produce about the same effect--large masses of people gathered for a shared experience and whom undergo both intellectual and emotional stimulation together. Its why The Beatles and Star Wars is considered "like a religion" to some people--because they both pretty much are. As far as i am concerned, Cinema is the heir to traditional mythological religion. But anyway, i was saying that its great that people have had their lives improved through religious experience. But please, at least realise that its simply emotional stimulation and not objective truth. People believe in god through faith because they have to--if god could be shown to exist in an objective way then people wouldn't need to have faith.