Originally posted by: CO
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Apprentice Jedi to one of the top Jedi's in the order to desert hermit.
Padme: Naive puppet politician to headstrong leader.
Jar-Jar: Societal outcast to important representative.
I see what you mean about being tied to "what has to happen", but I think Lucas made a decent attempt to balance that out with as much character development as he could with that requirement.Originally posted by: CO
Zombie is right that we should be lucky with 2 Great movies in SW & ESB, and as I said, I never really buried ROTJ that much before the PT, cause we had 2 classics and 1 good sequel. But looking at the saga, there are more bad then good movies!! Now I don't hate any PT movies cause I can enjoy ANYTHING with SW in it, but that doesn't mean I am not naive to think they are all OK movies that could have been better.
You are lucky to have enjoyed 2 movies out of 6, and I can see why you would rather enjoy 2 out of 3 than 2 out of 6.Originally posted by: Tiptup
Well, you make a very good point there. Yet for some reason it is very frustrating for me, as a Star Wars fan, to have seen the films fall to the place where they are now. I know they aren’t the worst films ever, but they could have been somewhat good. Perhaps I believed Lucas’ own self promotion a little too much. Perhaps I shouldn’t have believed he was a genius who single-handedly built the original trilogy as he tried to claim (despite that no being true at all). Perhaps, then, the prequel movies and the SE wouldn’t be so frustrating for me now.
. I think this is how we all feel who were under whelmed by the PT, or what I call duped in thinking that Lucas is this messiah. I say that in the context that Lucas is not the messiah as everyone states that he is and was even during the OT days, cause I still feel the quality drop started with ROTJ, continued with the SE nonsense, and sent red flags to me as a fan with the PT. See, I don't remember Lucas or anyone associated with Lucasfilm claiming that Lucas is a "messiah". I only saw him as a filmmaker. A really good filmmaker, but still human and imperfect. Maybe that's part of the reason I was able to roll along with the imperfections of the prequels, because I didn't see the classic trilogy as being the work of some kind of holy man. I know most people feel ANH and Empire are the best in the series, but I can't help but wonder how much of that was because of what Lucas brought to the table with his film, and how much was because of what –we- brought to the table in regards to our imagination. Truly wonderful the mind of a child is. I know I am in a minority here, but I think all the films are at about the same level give or take a bit here and there. I think they all have logic hurdles, dicey dialogue, hit and miss acting, and effects that aren't always 100% real looking.
The O-OT really did a better job of sticking with the characters, and actually building on them better then the PT did, even the secondary characters like Lando. The O-OT characters all had character arcs by the end of the trilogy:
Luke: Farmboy to Jedi who saves his father and the galaxy
Han: Rogue who is all for himself but becomes a team player by ROTJ
Vader: Bad guy who saves his son and kills the Emperor
Lando: Selfish guy who sells out his friend Han, but eventually blows up DSII
Leia: ?????????? Leia is the only one I think they dropped the ball with in ROTJ, cause when Lucas made her Luke’s sister, it takes her away from being head of the Rebellion in which is the strength of her personality.
Anakin: Slave boy to powerful Jedi to Sith Lord.Well, you make a very good point there. Yet for some reason it is very frustrating for me, as a Star Wars fan, to have seen the films fall to the place where they are now. I know they aren’t the worst films ever, but they could have been somewhat good. Perhaps I believed Lucas’ own self promotion a little too much. Perhaps I shouldn’t have believed he was a genius who single-handedly built the original trilogy as he tried to claim (despite that no being true at all). Perhaps, then, the prequel movies and the SE wouldn’t be so frustrating for me now.
. I think this is how we all feel who were under whelmed by the PT, or what I call duped in thinking that Lucas is this messiah. I say that in the context that Lucas is not the messiah as everyone states that he is and was even during the OT days, cause I still feel the quality drop started with ROTJ, continued with the SE nonsense, and sent red flags to me as a fan with the PT. See, I don't remember Lucas or anyone associated with Lucasfilm claiming that Lucas is a "messiah". I only saw him as a filmmaker. A really good filmmaker, but still human and imperfect. Maybe that's part of the reason I was able to roll along with the imperfections of the prequels, because I didn't see the classic trilogy as being the work of some kind of holy man. I know most people feel ANH and Empire are the best in the series, but I can't help but wonder how much of that was because of what Lucas brought to the table with his film, and how much was because of what –we- brought to the table in regards to our imagination. Truly wonderful the mind of a child is. I know I am in a minority here, but I think all the films are at about the same level give or take a bit here and there. I think they all have logic hurdles, dicey dialogue, hit and miss acting, and effects that aren't always 100% real looking.
Originally posted by: CO
Even with ROTJ being a good but not great sequel, the O-OT is a very coherent trilogy that for 3 movies that Lucas made up as he went, actually flows really well. The one beef I have with the OT is that Luke's last name is Skywalker, and Vader’s name is Anakin Skywalker? They should have had Anakin’s last name be Starkiller in ROTJ, so at least it shows an attempt to hide Luke when he was born.
It's a stretch, but I always figured it was okay because Luke was more or less stashed away from the Empire on Tatooine. It's not like he was attending imperial high school or anything like that.Originally posted by: COEven with ROTJ being a good but not great sequel, the O-OT is a very coherent trilogy that for 3 movies that Lucas made up as he went, actually flows really well. The one beef I have with the OT is that Luke's last name is Skywalker, and Vader’s name is Anakin Skywalker? They should have had Anakin’s last name be Starkiller in ROTJ, so at least it shows an attempt to hide Luke when he was born.
The O-OT really did a better job of sticking with the characters, and actually building on them better then the PT did, even the secondary characters like Lando. The O-OT characters all had character arcs by the end of the trilogy:
Luke: Farmboy to Jedi who saves his father and the galaxy
Han: Rogue who is all for himself but becomes a team player by ROTJ
Vader: Bad guy who saves his son and kills the Emperor
Lando: Selfish guy who sells out his friend Han, but eventually blows up DSII
Leia: ?????????? Leia is the only one I think they dropped the ball with in ROTJ, cause when Lucas made her Luke’s sister, it takes her away from being head of the Rebellion in which is the strength of her personality.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Apprentice Jedi to one of the top Jedi's in the order to desert hermit.
Padme: Naive puppet politician to headstrong leader.
Jar-Jar: Societal outcast to important representative.
I see what you mean about being tied to "what has to happen", but I think Lucas made a decent attempt to balance that out with as much character development as he could with that requirement.Originally posted by: CO
Zombie is right that we should be lucky with 2 Great movies in SW & ESB, and as I said, I never really buried ROTJ that much before the PT, cause we had 2 classics and 1 good sequel. But looking at the saga, there are more bad then good movies!! Now I don't hate any PT movies cause I can enjoy ANYTHING with SW in it, but that doesn't mean I am not naive to think they are all OK movies that could have been better.
I feel pretty lucky to have gotten 6 amazing films, because for me they form the Voltron of movies, something that I don't think anyone else has even come close to achieving.