Originally posted by: boris
What I find disturbing is the fact that so many people here intend to freeload off the X0 project as an alternative to LD's/DVD's. And the fact I can't even post in fun anymore without being told I'm a troll.
I know you're saying that you're cleaning up the video frame-by-frame, however Lucasfilm did this in 1993, and *most* of what you're cleaning up is LD defects, rather than film defects.
No actually Lucasfilm didn't do any kind of frame by frame cleanup for the 1993 laserdisc release - that is obvious from watching them.
And no, most of the defects we are cleaning up are film problems (dirt, dust flecks, scratches, splices, cue dots, film burn). We are cleaning up the laserdisc problems as well while we are there.
I don't think I have ever tried to mislead, I try to be as honest and thorough as possible, but I certainly don't know all the answers and can and do get things wrong just like anyone else.
At a first look the 'original crawl' looked suspiciously CG to me, the text looked far too clean and the gate weave looked far too pronounced. I didn't know for sure, but it really didn't look right, that is why I asked a question rather than making a statement. I believe I said something like 'is it just me or does the original crawl look CG' (I can't find the exact post). I was looking for other opinions and trying to find out if anyone knew the answer for sure.
If anything I keep trying to play down the quality expectations of people, I have plenty of posts here telling people to keep their expectations reasonable . I'll say it again, it sure aint gonna look like a HDTV presentation, most of our sources are laserdiscs, but I now know it will be noticably better than the GOUT as some of our sources are better quality than it at the outset, and with cleanup and correction get better still.
Originally posted by: boris
Zion says it's like a hobby for him, so fair enough. But if you, Laserman, are investing thousands of hours and blood sweat and tears to produce something that may at the very very best - be marginally better then the OUT - then I think you really have lost grip on reality. To spend so much time, and so much effort, for so little to me seems futile.
I have a lot of respect for you Laserman, and for Zion, and for mverta. You are all fantastic people, so please don't act as if I'm here throwing insults.. it is not my intention.
What I find disturbing is the fact that so many people here intend to freeload off the X0 project as an alternative to LD's/DVD's. And the fact I can't even post in fun anymore without being told I'm a troll.
I know you're saying that you're cleaning up the video frame-by-frame, however Lucasfilm did this in 1993, and *most* of what you're cleaning up is LD defects, rather than film defects.
No actually Lucasfilm didn't do any kind of frame by frame cleanup for the 1993 laserdisc release - that is obvious from watching them.
And no, most of the defects we are cleaning up are film problems (dirt, dust flecks, scratches, splices, cue dots, film burn). We are cleaning up the laserdisc problems as well while we are there.
Originally posted by: boris
Yes I'm a critic of this project, I don't think it's a bad project or anything - but I just think that a lot of forum members here are:
1. seeing it as an alternative to the OUT rather than a preservation...
and/or
2. seeing it as being much better then the OUT.
I'm posting here as a critic. The project does have some fantastic points about it, don't get me wrong... I just don't think it would be worth it to me to spend as much time as you 4 have preparing a preservation which is only going to be slightly better then the retail release, at best.
I think we constantly make it clear that this is a restoration effort, not a commercial product to buy instead of the GOUT - I don't think anyone is honestly confused about that.
I also see it as quite a reasonable step up in quality from the GOUT. I wasn't sure it would be when the GOUT was announced, I really hoped what they released would absolutely trounce what we were working on, but now that is out I know it isn't the case.
I've got no problem with criticism, I welcome it wholeheartedly. Many members here have pointed out things we missed, offered up ideas we hadn't thought of, and questioned in a constructive way some of the decisions we have made. This in turn has resulted in quite a few changes in direction for us. If not for the criticism in this forum, the X0 project would have been a straight transfer from the definitive set with some cleanup done. It now has turned into a full blown restoration effort pulling in as many sources as possible to bypass the shortcomings of the Definitive LDs.
In short, criticism is welcome, poking fun is welcome, but stuff that doesn't add anything to the discussion, or is totally made up just messes up the threads.
Originally posted by: boris
I also think sometimes, you guys are misleading people about the X0 project's quality. I mean, wasn't it you who said the OUT '77 crawl was recreated using CG? AND mverta? I know you guys didn't start the controversy, but still...
Yes I'm a critic of this project, I don't think it's a bad project or anything - but I just think that a lot of forum members here are:
1. seeing it as an alternative to the OUT rather than a preservation...
and/or
2. seeing it as being much better then the OUT.
I'm posting here as a critic. The project does have some fantastic points about it, don't get me wrong... I just don't think it would be worth it to me to spend as much time as you 4 have preparing a preservation which is only going to be slightly better then the retail release, at best.
I think we constantly make it clear that this is a restoration effort, not a commercial product to buy instead of the GOUT - I don't think anyone is honestly confused about that.
I also see it as quite a reasonable step up in quality from the GOUT. I wasn't sure it would be when the GOUT was announced, I really hoped what they released would absolutely trounce what we were working on, but now that is out I know it isn't the case.
I've got no problem with criticism, I welcome it wholeheartedly. Many members here have pointed out things we missed, offered up ideas we hadn't thought of, and questioned in a constructive way some of the decisions we have made. This in turn has resulted in quite a few changes in direction for us. If not for the criticism in this forum, the X0 project would have been a straight transfer from the definitive set with some cleanup done. It now has turned into a full blown restoration effort pulling in as many sources as possible to bypass the shortcomings of the Definitive LDs.
In short, criticism is welcome, poking fun is welcome, but stuff that doesn't add anything to the discussion, or is totally made up just messes up the threads.
Originally posted by: boris
I also think sometimes, you guys are misleading people about the X0 project's quality. I mean, wasn't it you who said the OUT '77 crawl was recreated using CG? AND mverta? I know you guys didn't start the controversy, but still...
I don't think I have ever tried to mislead, I try to be as honest and thorough as possible, but I certainly don't know all the answers and can and do get things wrong just like anyone else.
At a first look the 'original crawl' looked suspiciously CG to me, the text looked far too clean and the gate weave looked far too pronounced. I didn't know for sure, but it really didn't look right, that is why I asked a question rather than making a statement. I believe I said something like 'is it just me or does the original crawl look CG' (I can't find the exact post). I was looking for other opinions and trying to find out if anyone knew the answer for sure.
If anything I keep trying to play down the quality expectations of people, I have plenty of posts here telling people to keep their expectations reasonable . I'll say it again, it sure aint gonna look like a HDTV presentation, most of our sources are laserdiscs, but I now know it will be noticably better than the GOUT as some of our sources are better quality than it at the outset, and with cleanup and correction get better still.
Originally posted by: boris
Zion says it's like a hobby for him, so fair enough. But if you, Laserman, are investing thousands of hours and blood sweat and tears to produce something that may at the very very best - be marginally better then the OUT - then I think you really have lost grip on reality. To spend so much time, and so much effort, for so little to me seems futile.
I have a lot of respect for you Laserman, and for Zion, and for mverta. You are all fantastic people, so please don't act as if I'm here throwing insults.. it is not my intention.
Well seeing no insults are being thrown, I guess I'll take having lost my grip on reality as a compliment then
Seriously though I've got no problem with your opinion or anyone elses that I am wasting my time, but I don't see that as particularly constructive to the threads, or adds to the discussion in a valuable way - but hey you are free to post it. I'd prefer it if people didn't just make stuff up, or argue that black is white, but that is the nature of public forums.
To spend so much time for so little?
Star Wars quite literally changed the path of my life. It set me on a career path that brought me a lot of joy and success. Had that movie not existed I don't know what profession I would have ended up in, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been as fulfilling as my time spent working in film. It created entire communities, and much to my surprise when I was literally in my darkest hour, this community right here reached out to me and helped me back up again. The influence of this movie on my life and others extends far past the film itself.
It is one of the most important films of all time, it changed film making completely (for better or worse) and enthralled and entertained a good part of the world.
For a film of such importance, there is no good quality copy of the film as it was, or even close to the way it was released outside of a film institute, and even then are only achived on film which degrades over time (I do not know if they have made digital archives of the prints they received or not - it is possible they have, but I do not know). I cannot think of another imprtant film, or artwork where this is the case, it really does boggle the mind.
I feel this is wrong, and that such a groundbreaking and historically important film deserves to be preserved, the laserdiscs won't last forever, by bringing what is publicly available into the digital realm, combining them to be the best and closest to original version possible, then at least there will be one version that will not degrade over time.
It is my way of giving back to something that gave a lot to me.
If I knew how much work it was going to be at the start I never would have started in all likelyhood. I've thought of giving it up many a time. If I thought the result would only be marginally better than the GOUT I would probably just keep the X0 transfer itself and give it up now.
I think the end result however will be worth the effort and considerably better than the GOUT, the removal of the ghosts and trails alone would make it worth it to me to continue.