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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ — Page 2

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Hate It! Hate It! Hate It! To this day, I cannot watch ROTJ SE, cause that change is so awful it is insulting to any fan who grew up loving ROTJ. Before 2004, I actually was of the ilk that put up with the changes in '97, and was really content if Lucas would have put that version out on DVD in 2004. I remember hearing about it but didn't believe it, and when I popped it in the DVD player to make sure it wasn't true, SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But he couldn't stop tampering with the movies, and this time he went too far. The reason I hate it so much is the fact that a PT actor is inserted into an OT movie, and it is just looks weird. And it dispels every argument that if you don't like the PT or saga, just watch 4-6. We can't cause that creepy Hayden Christenson is in it now!

I always put up with Jabba in ANH, Greedo shooting first, and even the dreaded Jedi Rocks, but Mr. Lucas you lost me on this one, and that is when I became a true O-OT fan, and now I refuse to watch all of the SE now.
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Originally posted by: Mielr

I mean, the SE ROTJ ending was ruined anyway with the new-age music and the multi-planet celebrations, he just put the nail in the coffin with Hayden. I had actually heard rumors about it before I saw the DVD, but I couldn't believe it when I actually saw it in front of me.




I love Yub Nub of course but I do like the planets celebrating and the new music at the end, so what Adigitalman did with the ending - getting rid of the "Wesa free" audio and replacing Hayden with Shaw so you have the new ending with Shaw was pretty good
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For the most part I was OK with the changes, but I have to admit, this is the one thing that really made me go, "Hey! What the....?"
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Originally posted by: ESHBG
Another thing I want to add is Lucas' excuses for doing that, and how silly they are. You know, the whole, "Darth Vader was no longer Anakin" thing. DUMB! It makes MORE sense for Shaw to be at the end because it shows that as Vader was aging, so was his good, human side and that is how Luke was able to help him redeem himself. The whole, "...there is still good in you..." thing.

Or we could just use the logical answer that says since Anakin was human and only part machine, his human side would age normally.

No matter, it is hands down one of the dumbest changes in all of the SEs.


I think I was able to figure out Anakin had joined the light side by:
1. He was able to maintain his identity through the force (obviously).
2. He killed Palpatine and saved his son.
3. He appeared in his Jedi robes instead of his Vader suit.

I certianly didn't need George to play musical chairs with people's heads to tell me that Anakin had redeemed himself.

And another thing... why did the Hayden version appear in robes that never wore in the prequels anyway?
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I often wonder what the legal implications of erasing part of an actor's performance from a movie years later would be if Lucas was still in the DGA and Sebastian Shaw still alive. And I was expecting much worse to happen really. I thought Lucas would replace Shaw for the unmaksing scene as well. One of the Dark Horse Infinities comics actually depicted Hayden's face when the mask comes off shortly before the '94 versions came out.
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Originally posted by: SilverWook
One of the Dark Horse Infinities comics actually depicted Hayden's face when the mask comes off shortly before the '94 versions came out.


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I didn't like it at first, but I came around to "accepting that I couldn't do anything about it". I really wish though that Lucas would revise the scene and possibly either have the them fade from young to old or old to young....seriously. If Lucas wants to do this atleast do it with all 3 Jedi and make that compromise so that Sebastian Shaw is STILL in the scene! It'd be neat if he did it, from Digi to Puppet Yoda and Ewan to Alec, Hayden to Shaw....you get the picture. That'd be so much better.

As far as the music goes. I personally like both the new and the old music, I don't know what it is about that NEW music but it's just fun to listen to. However Yub Nub in certain circles has become such an iconic song with Star Wars. I love listening to my 1993 Soundtrack Anthology set which has Yub Nub on there. Great stuff.

I'll never buy the NEWER versions of the Star Wars soundtracks as I personally can't tell all that many differences and the songs that are changed I don't really care about anyways besides the ending song, that being said...I'm gonna put on my next CD is the NEW End Celebration song and possibly even put Yub Nub infront of it as a comparison track to have them both play after one another.
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If I hadn't seen the Ep III preview, I would have had no idea who that kid with the ugly make up and hair was.

Joe Williams who wrote Lapti Nek was removed from the credits in '97. It said so on the star wars site but couldn't Lucas get in a lot of trouble from erasing someone's name from the film. Isn't there a rule against that which is why many full-screen dvd's (including star wars) have the credits in letterbox widescreen?

Anakin's ghost appears at the age he was last alive. With Hayden, that means Luke was NOT right and basically destroys everthing Lucas supposedly wants with Anakin's redemption.

"I've learned that we can do just about anything under the sun with computers. So the question becomes, should we? ...But now, we have technology that can replace actors, or an entire performance in an already existing movie. We could cut out Humphrey Bogart and replace him with Vin Diesel, if somebody wanted. Who would want to? Well, there might be people who would. That's why we have to be careful. Movies reflect our cultural heritage from the period in time in which they were made. Therefore, altering them can destroy that historical perspective. That's disrespectful of history, which is a big issue for me. The situation is like walking a tightrope - we have to move forward, but we have to be careful."
-Steven Spielberg

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

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Hayden is just plain gay, that's all. He just should go on a drug binge and die before 30. His destiny, it is. Die already, HC!
I killed him because I'm a dirty dog.
RB
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Knightmessenger, that quote from Speilberg is very much how i feel about films. It's particularly interesting, though, in light of his actions regarding E.T. & Close Encounters....

& you make an interesting (& accurate) point with regards to Luke being wrong if hayden is the force ghost.... Yet another reason to forget the SE....
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Someone should just use reverse psychology on Lucas, go up to him and say "Sure George, you should be able to do anything you want to the OT because they're your movies."
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In a way it fits in more with the novelization, in which Luke strains to see the force ghosts, and thinks "and was it his father?".
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I don't know. In that context, it works just as well the old (real) way. First he'd seen him as a burned, scarred machine man, and then to see that same man alive and whole with hair. I'm sure there would be a moment of disbelief.

There is no lingerie in space…

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I think it's a bad idea because it should be possible to watch ROTJ and have it make sense without having seen AOTC or ROTS. If you watch only the OT, who the heck is this kid with Yoda and Ben?

Also, I think Scruffy's post is very insightful.

Originally posted by: Scruffy
Shaw's is the face behind the mask of Vader.... Seeing that face restored, happy, approving of his son, in communion with his mentor ... there's a lot of strong feelings there. He has been in a dark place for twenty years, but he's found his way home, and his friends were waiting for him.

Hayden's is the face of pride, resentment, and foolishness. The prequel trilogy spent four hours linking these attributes with that face, prepping us to dislike him. When I look into that face in Jedi, I don't know what he's thinking or feeling. He has no camaraderie with the geriatrics he's hanging out with, that's for sure; he's more like a bad child who avoided a scolding by flashing his puppy-dog eyes at his parents."


I'm looking forward to Darth Editous fixing this, which I hope he will. The Emperor scene in ESB was also a mistake that should be corrected.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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By the way, why did Lucas replace Shaw with Christensen but not replace Guiness with McGregor? Seems inconsistent to me.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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Because it all goes back to this idea that Obi-Wan meant "died" when his actual line was "was destroyed." Granted, Luke does say "then my father is truly dead" to Vader later on in the movie, so take that for what you will. In any event, Obi-Wan was neither destroyed nor killed until ANH and that's why he's still Alec Guinness but Anakin is now Hayden. It's really yet another reason for why it was a stupid change.
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So Anakin died some time in the second half of Episode 3, and is never seen again except for a cameo in Episode 6? But Lucas says the whole saga is Anakin's story. Now I'm really confused.

Granted, Luke does say "then my father is truly dead"

That was after Vader said "it is too late for me," which it wasn't.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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Although I dont like the fact that Shaw was replaced,as for me and all you guys he is the face of Anakin for the OT,it made more sense to me than some of the other changes made.The face that we see in the reveal scene is essentially the body of Vader.The face of Anakin prior to his fall is Hayden Christensen.With his redemption he is returned to his younger true self not the battered,burnt broken old man in the suit which is the last remnant of Darth Vader.
Having said that,though,there was no real need for it.

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The concept of HC is good, but it was poorly executed.
It's all parts crap.
A la Britney looking like a moustache-less Jamie Hyneman of Mythbusters
RB
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This was a change that I support. Even as a kid, I wasn't crazy about how Anankin looked. I mean, here you have the badass of badasses with Darth Vader, then when he is unmasked, you have this pasty broken old man. Then, a serene/conservative/fatherly looking guy in the spirit scene. I just always had trouble buying that that guy was Darth Vader.
That said, I was surprised to hear that GL was making that change for the '04 dvd. While I like the change, I also feel that it wasn't absolutely necessary. I could live with the old man being Vader.
The one thing that sticks out now is that fact that he didn't replace Shaw in the unmasking scene with HC. Now that you see HC in the spirit scene, it makes sense to see him as the unmasked Vader. To me, at least. And until that happens, I'll always consider the change as incomplete.
Now, on the other hand, if Lucas were ever to decide to go back and reinsert Shaw, I'd support that move as well.
I'm nice men.
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Originally posted by: rolla
if Lucas were ever to decide to go back and reinsert Shaw, I'd support that move as well.


If Lucas were ever to decide to stop messing around with movies made a quarter of a century ago, I'd support that move.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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I was fortunate to not hear about it before I watched it. I liked the change and my little brother did too. I immediately looked on the internet to see what fans reaction was, and I saw that it was mixed, like most other changes to the film.
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HC will be typed. Just can't escape it or the fact that we all murdered him in ROTJ.
We will never accept hm or Infodroid's cowardice
I don't know what it means. Something like coward.
RB
Film Reinvented
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So Anakin died some time in the second half of Episode 3, and is never seen again except for a cameo in Episode 6? But Lucas says the whole saga is Anakin's story. Now I'm really confused.


Well, it means that, as said once three years ago when this controversy was introduced, that the last half of the SW "saga" is inherently pointless, because I always felt that the OT was about Luke, not Vader. But lets not talk about the Hayden deal. Its been done to death, especially by me.